Pretty much anyone with these players using any HD display at all can confirm that the 720p output on the HD-A1 and HD-XA1 is effectively "broken". 1080i will give you a superior result regardless of your display's native resolution.
-
Our native mobile app has a new name: Fora Communities. Learn more.
1080i or 720p to a progressive display. Does it yield the same picture?
Hi All,
After reading thru some threads where people are having issues (mb, artifacts, wiggles, etc...) related to picture quality I started wondering what the cause of it was and would like to see what creates problems or the gives the best PQ to the viewer.
Could you please list:
1. type of display you have (native resolution)
2. setting on HD-A1 (1080i or 720p)
3. Video processor and settings
4. if 720p and 1080i give you different results.
5. Disc you are seeing a problem and time
Thanks.
After reading thru some threads where people are having issues (mb, artifacts, wiggles, etc...) related to picture quality I started wondering what the cause of it was and would like to see what creates problems or the gives the best PQ to the viewer.
Could you please list:
1. type of display you have (native resolution)
2. setting on HD-A1 (1080i or 720p)
3. Video processor and settings
4. if 720p and 1080i give you different results.
5. Disc you are seeing a problem and time
Thanks.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
I realize that but I am also hearing of people with progressive displays that are having problems with 1080i to a progressive display. Just trying to help these people out. Thanks for your input though.
I posted the following in the HD DVD Software forum, but it applies to this thread also.
According to Ultimate AV's review of the HD-A1, when outputting 1080p content in 720p, the player has to do some scaling that results in a picture that is not true HD. According to this site, since all of the current movies are in 1080p, the player scales them down to 480p, then rescales them to 720p. If you output 1080i, then it should output the original HD picture. I imagine that this should not be a problem with true 720p content.
Btw, the review is here .
According to Ultimate AV's review of the HD-A1, when outputting 1080p content in 720p, the player has to do some scaling that results in a picture that is not true HD. According to this site, since all of the current movies are in 1080p, the player scales them down to 480p, then rescales them to 720p. If you output 1080i, then it should output the original HD picture. I imagine that this should not be a problem with true 720p content.
Btw, the review is here .
The manual says quite clearly to match the setting to the disc, not the display. I don't understand why people are having such a hard time with that. There are no 720 discs out there yet, so at present there's no reason to be setting the player to 720.
Quote:
I don't have the HD-A1 yet, but I wonder if it has a mode where it could automatically output a HD DVD disc's native resolution? If not, maybe it should be included in a future firmware update. My CV SA 4200HD cable box includes this option.
| Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer The manual says quite clearly to match the setting to the disc, not the display. I don't understand why people are having such a hard time with that. There are no 720 discs out there yet, so at present there's no reason to be setting the player to 720. |
I'm I to understand that my HD-XA1 really is a 540P player for all intents and purposes using my Optoma HD72?
I'm hearing that the Optoma HD72 takes the 1080i signal down to 540P. Then bumps this up to 720P. So, in reality using this player on the HD72 there isn't much difference between 480P and 540P is there?
Or am I missing something? Because the difference between standard DVD's on this player and H-DVD is hugely dramatic. Not the 60 line difference that would seem minimal.
I'm hearing that the Optoma HD72 takes the 1080i signal down to 540P. Then bumps this up to 720P. So, in reality using this player on the HD72 there isn't much difference between 480P and 540P is there?
Or am I missing something? Because the difference between standard DVD's on this player and H-DVD is hugely dramatic. Not the 60 line difference that would seem minimal.
540p is 960x540. Most 720 displays will take 1080i to 1920x540 (not all displays though) and then scale tp 720p.
IMO this player is not a good match for a 720P display. My OTA HD looks better. As stated this player has a crappy scaler, rendering the 720P output useless. IMO feeding my 720P DLP a 1080i is not a good option due to the way it scales the 1080i to 720P. So you can' t see the full benefit of HD-DVD.
Quote:
It does not have such an auto mode; I wish it would because changing resolution on this thing is a pain. Whether that can be fixed with a firmware update I don't know but it doesn't seem impossible to my admittedly lay mind.
| Originally Posted by TazExprez I don't have the HD-A1 yet, but I wonder if it has a mode where it could automatically output a HD DVD disc's native resolution? If not, maybe it should be included in a future firmware update. My CV SA 4200HD cable box includes this option. |
Quote:
I agree. It reminds me of how everyone assumed there was a 'DTS bug' - almost no one read the manual.
| Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer The manual says quite clearly to match the setting to the disc, not the display. I don't understand why people are having such a hard time with that. There are no 720 discs out there yet, so at present there's no reason to be setting the player to 720. |
Quote:
You may want to change that because this is dependent on the particular 720P display. Some will take 1080i > 540P > 720P (there is other scaling but just keeping it relatively simple). Some displays will do : 1080i > 1080P > 720P. so it really depends on the display and how it handles 1080i
| Originally Posted by TWD IMO this player is not a good match for a 720P display. My OTA HD looks better. As stated this player has a crappy scaler, rendering the 720P output useless. IMO feeding my 720P DLP a 1080i is not a good option due to the way it scales the 1080i to 720P. So you can' t see the full benefit of HD-DVD. |
Quote:
Your display should be able to handle and display 1080i properly regardless of HD-DVD discs. It's afterall the most prominent HDTV signal out there. Simple bob deinterlacing of a 1080i signal will still provide a very good image and will have zero combing artifacts, although there are better and more sophisticated ways to do it. It's also possible your display may treat 1080i film sources differently and more accurately render the image.
| Originally Posted by TWD IMO this player is not a good match for a 720P display. My OTA HD looks better. As stated this player has a crappy scaler, rendering the 720P output useless. IMO feeding my 720P DLP a 1080i is not a good option due to the way it scales the 1080i to 720P. So you can' t see the full benefit of HD-DVD. |
Now that the Tosh 2.0 firmware has fixed 720p output what are people using for their HD-A1 and HD72s? 720p or 1080i? I've switched between the two and really can't tell the difference.
It looks as if the HD72 would benefit from a decent external scaler. The 720p and 1080i o/ps from the Tosh are night and day different.
Yeah, I can't see a difference either. Some state they have run the test patterns and verfied the 540p conversion. In the bigger picture, it still represents fantastic content and detail on all 720p displays, so I do not agree with the statement it is not a good match.
I did go back to 1080i on it, but really cannot see any difference, it still looks better for me than any other HD source I have run on it. which would be OTA STB, Direct TV, Comcast, and now I am using Dish Network. Both 720p and 1080i settings look glorious on my 720p projector all bits, bytes, pixles, and conversions aside.
I did go back to 1080i on it, but really cannot see any difference, it still looks better for me than any other HD source I have run on it. which would be OTA STB, Direct TV, Comcast, and now I am using Dish Network. Both 720p and 1080i settings look glorious on my 720p projector all bits, bytes, pixles, and conversions aside.
I don't think much has changed in this regard. It really depends on how well your 720p display scales a 1080i image. Some do this very well, i.e. Infocus IN76, others, like my Panasonic AE900, not all that well. Try both. If the 1080i image looks better on your HD72 then its internal scaler is a better solution than the Toshibas internal scaler and visa versa.
Moe
Moe
Most HDTV are optimized to use a 1080i signal and to convert it to their native resolution.
If you feed it 1080i from the HD DVD player, it has more to work with.
If you feed it 1080i from the HD DVD player, it has more to work with.
In the spirit of the original thread, updated to reflect the 2.0 firmware:
Display device: Sanyo PLZ4 projector, native 720p
Player: Toshiba HD-A1, firmware 2.0
Output setting 1: 1080i over HDMI
Result: PQ is fantastic, no noticeable artifacts or other compression/motion related issues.
Output setting 2: 720p over HDMI
Result: PQ is fantasic, no noticeable artifacts or other compression/motion related issues. HOWEVER the picture did look slightly softer when viewing Constantine last night. Will have to check this out more thoroughly with other titles.
Note that this doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense unless the Z4 has a better 1080i -> 720p solution than the HD-A1.
Display device: Sanyo PLZ4 projector, native 720p
Player: Toshiba HD-A1, firmware 2.0
Output setting 1: 1080i over HDMI
Result: PQ is fantastic, no noticeable artifacts or other compression/motion related issues.
Output setting 2: 720p over HDMI
Result: PQ is fantasic, no noticeable artifacts or other compression/motion related issues. HOWEVER the picture did look slightly softer when viewing Constantine last night. Will have to check this out more thoroughly with other titles.
Note that this doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense unless the Z4 has a better 1080i -> 720p solution than the HD-A1.
Quote:
i have the AE900 projector you have. what is the problem with the 1080i conversion to 720p?
will i notice a better picture with 2.0 firmware in the a1? a1 with 1.4 firmware does not look good at 720p output. i am using 1080i.
i have only had the projector for a month so i am still tinkering. any suggestions for projector settings? i am currently using the a1 setting to enhance black levels becasue IMHO there was a loss of detail.
thanks.
| Originally Posted by Zipplemeyer I don't think much has changed in this regard. It really depends on how well your 720p display scales a 1080i image. Some do this very well, i.e. Infocus IN76, others, like my Panasonic AE900, not all that well. Try both. If the 1080i image looks better on your HD72 then its internal scaler is a better solution than the Toshibas internal scaler and visa versa. Moe |
will i notice a better picture with 2.0 firmware in the a1? a1 with 1.4 firmware does not look good at 720p output. i am using 1080i.
i have only had the projector for a month so i am still tinkering. any suggestions for projector settings? i am currently using the a1 setting to enhance black levels becasue IMHO there was a loss of detail.
thanks.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
AVS Forum
A forum community dedicated to home theater owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about home audio/video, TVs, projectors, screens, receivers, speakers, projects, DIY’s, product reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
WilliamR
833 Replies
BASSAHOLIC
488 Replies
mrtickleuk
404 Replies
Recommended Communities
