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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had my HDTV for about couple of weeks now, and I simply love the picture from my progressive DVD player. Connected via component monster cable, the image quality is great. It is outputting progressive, and I was wondering if an upscaling DVD will really improve the image quality.


Like I said, I'm already very please with the picture, plus my current DVD player is region-free and plays everything. Is dropping $300 (cdn.) worth it to get a player that upscales to 1080i? Will I REALLY notice a difference? I'll probably end up connecting both players to the TV since i need the region-free for some discs (hehehe)...but for my legit discs, does the upscaling really improve PQ?


Just reply with your opinions! Thanks!
 

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In general, yes, upscaling players should look better than progressive scan players, especially on fixed pixel displays (LCD, DLP, plasma). The theory is that the upscaling players with a DVI or HDMI output allow the signal to stay digital throughout. The player deinterlaces it, upscales it to the native resolution of your HDTV (720p or 1080i, depending on your set), and passes the signal digitally to the TV over DVI/HDMI for display. Your current player must convert the signal to analog to pass to the TV over component. The TV then converts it back to digital for upscaling and display. Some info could be lost in this double conversion. The only way to know for sure with your equipment is to try one out and see for yourself. At that price point, Denon 1910 is a good choice.
 

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I don't think the answer is clear-cut. It depends on the quality of the equipment and the type of TV. For example I have a great 480p player (Denon 1600) hooked to a CRT RPTV (Panasonic 47WX53) that will do native 480p and 1080i. I did A/B comparisons with the Zenith DVD318 at 480p and 1080i through component and DVI. The results: the Denon was the clear winner at all inputs and resolutions except 1080i w/DVI. At that one it was basically a draw in clarity/sharpness but the colors at all were more accurate after calibration with the Denon.
 

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xilinx,


A small consideration is that there are region free upscaling dvd players(Momitsu, NeuNeo, etc.). This would give you the option of Ebaying your other dvd player or putting it in another room. Freeing up shelf space and video inputs is always a plus.


Like you I am very pleased with my 480p player but I'm taking the plunge on the NeuNeo HVD108. It cost me $206(u.s.) shipped but given the slow arrival of actual HD players I figured I should go for it. If I'm wrong, well it won't be the first time.


Good luck with your decision.
 

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Quote:
I don't think the answer is clear-cut. It depends on the quality of the equipment and the type of TV.
That is the most accurate answer.


On an analog TV (CRT), component connection with a quality DVD player is likely to provide as good or better results than using a digital connection with upscaling. With a digital display, one is more likely to get better results with a digital connection, but even these scenarios are not hard and fast.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert George
That is the most accurate answer.


On an analog TV (CRT), component connection with a quality DVD player is likely to provide as good or better results than using a digital connection with upscaling. With a digital display, one is more likely to get better results with a digital connection, but even these scenarios are not hard and fast.
************

(THis is not a flame against this member's question)

*************


This is why I'm not a fan of will I see an improvement or should I buy threads?


It's too difficult to determine for someone else what you'll see based on all the factors that come into play in each individual set-up. Your best bet is to buy from a retailer or e-tailer that has a liberal return policy or demo policy. You tend to pay a little bit of a premium..but IMHO it's worth it.


Ron


PS: Also, I would recommend running a search on this same topic. It's been brought up before. You might find additional info that maybe important to your set up. Running a search before posting any questions is always a good idea. You get info quicker and it doesn't burden the membership from answer the same questions over and over again.
 

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On this forum alone, you have one thread that has 255 replies about upscaling players, and another thread about the Zenith DVB 318 upscaling player that has 596 replies says one thing to me. OH HELL YEAH. Got this bad boy a couple of days after my first RPTV and this was the best way to jump into RPTV with a great player.
 

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Let's say for an HD plasma (768p). You have an upconverting DVI/HDMI DVD player.


1) Upconvert to 1080i in the DVD player.


The DVD player upconverts from 480i to 1080i, then the plasma deinterlaces and downconverts from 1080i to 768p.


2) Deinterlace to 480p in the DVD player.


The DVD player deinterlaces 480i to 480p, then the plasma upconverts 480p to 768p.



Which is better? It seems to me that there is less converting going on in Scenario 2.
 

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jrock65,

Although what you say has logic to it, it belies the experience many people have had. Precisely why this is true is a tough nut to crack.


My take on it is that HDTV ready displays are optimized for a 1080i HDTV signal since that's what the manufacturers think will be used to evaluate them in stores. This seems to be true even for fixed pixel displays that have a lower native pixel count. That is, you'd think a plasma with a 768 native pixel count would be more optimized for a 720p input signal than for a 1080i input signal, and yet time and again you find folks saying that they like the results better if such a set is fed 1080i from typical "video" sources -- i.e., excluding PC sources that might be able to map 1-1 with that pixel count.


So how this applies to your argument is that if the display does so much better a job DOWN-converting from 1080i to 768 than it does UP-converting from 480p to 768, that may make up for the extra conversion going on in the player to get from 480p to 1080i.


By the way, the conversion in the player to 1080i apparently includes a de-interlace step. The player de-interlaces to 480p, upconverts to 1080p, and then interlaces the output as 1080i.

--Bob
 

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Yes...or rather, yes...


I am fortunate (or unfortunate) to be able to limit my choices to component upconversion (obviously DVI opens up the competition...and is logically the best choice for a fixed pixel display...except if it only takes analog like my X1). But, I have done direct comparisons with OTA HD movies that I own DVDs of the same. In many cases, the image is closer to HD movies than to NTSC DVD quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have a F510 and I believe the VirtualHD on it converts signals into 1080i already. At least that is what it says in the menu...1080i. However the signal from the player is 480p.


So am I assuming that the TV takes the 480p and upconverts to 1080i before displaying it? If so, how would that be different from the DVD player doing the upscaling?
 

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xilinx,

There's no difference in concept, just in execution. Depending upon the player and display you compare, one or the other will likely do a better job of up-converting the resolution. If you feed a 480i signal into the display instead of a 480p signal, you are also comparing the de-interlace processing of the display against what the player would do to produce 480p.


Some folks claim the player will always do a better job because it can deal with the data digitally, and it's closest to the data so it can use flags or some such from the DVD data to do a better job. However, there are plenty of players out there which will pass a digital signal to a digital display (no analog conversion anywhere along the way). There are also plenty of players out there that just do a shoddy job. In either such case, giving the data to the display and letting it do the job might very well be best. Technical reviews from places like the Secrets site can help guide you here, but the only way to know for sure is to try it with particular hardware.

--Bob
 

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With my Panny 60" LCDRPTV I defintely noticed a difference in PQ using an upscaling DVD through DVI vs. my Progressive scan player with Monster Component Video2 cables. The only reason I took back the player (Samsung 931) was because of balck crush and more importantly lip sync issues.


I'll be getting a Panny s97 player as soon as(if?) they're available.
 
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