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Discussion Starter #1
I was all set to buy one of the new Panasonic plasma displays when I read a CNET review that stated that there is unwatchable flicker when viewing 24fps sources in 1080p/24 mode. I assume that all of the Panasonic plasmas with a 48hz mode will suffer from the same problem.


That leaves me with a dilemma. As far as I know, the only other plasmas that can display 1080p/24 are the Pioneers, and they are both too large for my room and too pricey for my budget. Of course there are a number of 120hz LCDs that can handle 1080p/24 (I've been looking at the Samsung 46A650 and the Sony 46Z4100), but I'd prefer to go with Plasma for various reasons.


My questions are:


1. Has anyone seen the Panasonics in 1080p/24 mode? Can you confirm the flicker? How bad is it?


2. Are there other plasmas (besides the Pioneers) that display 1080p/24?


Thanks in advance!


Matty
 

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Do any of the LCDs actually display 24p, or do they just convert it to 60hz then to 120hz? Simply accepting a 24p signal isn't especially useful if the display is just going to add its own judder.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by msilverz /forum/post/14235553


My questions are:


1. Has anyone seen the Panasonics in 1080p/24 mode? Can you confirm the flicker? How bad is it?


2. Are there other plasmas (besides the Pioneers) that display 1080p/24?


Thanks in advance!


Matty

1) Flicker confirmed at 48Hz, but not at 60. Annoyance is subjective, like seeing rainbows with DLP. There is a thread on Panasonic flicker you may like to read.


2) LG's PG60 line has a cinema mode that displays 1080p/24 and there have been no reports of flicker, nor have I seen any in direct observation.
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert /forum/post/14235583


Do any of the LCDs actually display 24p, or do they just convert it to 60hz then to 120hz? Simply accepting a 24p signal isn't especially useful if the display is just going to add its own judder.

As far as I understand (and that may not be very far), the LCDs in question do not convert the 24fps to 60hz. Each frame gets displayed five times for 120hz. There is no 3:2 pulldown.


UPDATE: Here's a blurb from the Sony website on it's 24p True Cinema feature:


"Movies and many prime time TV programs are captured at 24 frames per second (24p). Sony’s Blu-ray Disc™ players wisely take advantage of this by including 24p output capability allowing a compatible connection with BRAVIA® HDTVs that have this capability. The benefit— You can watch movies in natural, cinematic motion, the way they are seen at the cinema. Every single frame of the movie can now be seen without using additional video processing that converts film-based images to video reproduction. Additionally, 24p True Cinema input capability can be used along with Motionflow™ 120Hz technology for outstanding fluid motion beyond what you would typically see at the cinema. Once you experience 24p video it will be hard to view video without it."


The bit about "without using additional video processing" suggests to me that there is no 3:2 pulldown in 24p mode on the Sony TVs. But of course I may be wrong.


Matty
 

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Discussion Starter #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwr1776 /forum/post/14235629


1) Flicker confirmed at 48Hz, but not at 60. Annoyance is subjective, like seeing rainbows with DLP. There is a thread on Panasonic flicker you may like to read.


2) LG's PG60 line has a cinema mode that displays 1080p/24 and there have been no reports of flicker, nor have I seen any in direct observation.

Are you sure about the LG displays? I checked their website, the manual, as well as the CNET review, and I couldn't find any mention of a cinema mode that doesn't use 3:2 pulldown.


Matty
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by msilverz /forum/post/14235920


Are you sure about the LG displays? I checked their website, the manual, as well as the CNET review, and I couldn't find any mention of a cinema mode that doesn't use 3:2 pulldown.


Matty

As sure as you can be about such things I suppose.


It's referenced on LG's microsite -- moderately reliable

It's was confirmed by their tech support -- moderately reliable

I don't see 2:3 Judder -- Mostly reliable :)


Supposedly they have 2:3, 2:2, and 5:5 depending on mode.
 

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I watch HD DVD movies which are the same 1080P/24 and it looks fantastic on my Plasma, I don't see any flicker. It's probably more of a problem on LCD's. Some people see things other's don't. I don't see any flicker on my Panasonic.


Go to Best Buy, and watch one of the Blu-Ray player setups to a Plasma and look for yourself. The Best Buy near me has the HDTV I ended up getting (Price Matched) and hooked up to a Blu-Ray player and I didn't see any flicker. Looked great to me and still does. You may want to take a read here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
 

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i am trying to get a handle on this 1080p24 business, when i connect my laptop to my 52lg60 via Hdmi cable there is an option for 1080p24. this option fill the entire hdtv with the computer screen/video. But i notice flicker when i watch video. is there anything that can be done to fix this? or am i just limited
 

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I've seen it. but I've seen it on DVDs as well. I'm not sure if turning 24p to off will solve this or not, as I have not yet tried.
 

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I may be one of the few that isn't bothered by the flicker on Panasonic's 48hz mode. I see it, but it's only in really bright scenes of a uniform color - snow scenes, vast blue skies. Otherwise I never see the flickering. I'd rather do without the added judder. Sometimes when I'm watching Netflix streaming there's terrible judder in credits and pans, and as far as I know there's no way to tell Netflix or the TV or the blu-ray player to stream Netflix at 24p.
 

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They really do.

I've searched the web and there is a number of people concerned about this issue as these Panasonic TVs are well worth buying. They offer stunning performance, apart form the flicker. (!)


I've visited a couple of shops (Currys, Comet) and in both the TVs flickered. I was very disappointed as none of Samsung or LG plasma did. In both shops (UK) the salesmen tried to talk me into an eye illness.

I think it's not an eye fault, just our sensitivity. This might be so for only some of us.


Perhaps these absolutely hi-end TVs are, just like Tosca, not for everyone?


I find no satisfaction in criticising these TVs but I had to go for EDGE LED Panasonic and now I suffer from backlight patches in the corners.

I recently watched Arsenal vs Barcelona in HD and movement was so smooth, colours, sharpness - 10/10.


Pros and cons. Such is life.
 

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It depends on the model. The lower end panasonics simply double the frames to get 48 frames at 48hz refresh rate. Flicker is easy to see at 48hz. I thought the higher end models did 96 frames per second at 96hz to avoid flicker.


Samsung converts 24p in to 96hz, but this caused the black levels to rise in 2010 and older models. Samsungs 2011 models have supposedly fixed that issue (I believe it's due to the new phosphers with a faster decay in the 2011 models).
 

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I think the VT plasmas convert to 96 hz


the G25 i have does 48 or 60 24P


48 flickers so badly its unwatachable .


24P isnt that important to me, My samsung downstairs does the 24P conversion properly, but i honestly can't tell a lick of difference in the motion of 24 vs 60
 
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