[Grubert]

We're beginning to get pricing information on the new single-chip 1080p DLP projectors:


BenQ: AUD 18,000 (around USD 13500). ETA late 2006.


Optoma H80/H81: There's been a lot of talk on pricing on this one, with remarkably low prices being thrown about, but the basis for the calculations may be unsound.


ProjectionDesign Action! model three 1080: NOK 100,000-150,000 (USD 15,000-22,000). PD's Anders Lokke said "I would expect 20-ish [$K] to be initial price".


Sharp Z20000: only speculation, most think USD 18,000.


So, unless Optoma surprises us, we're looking at over $12K across the board.

 

[TorAtle]

Most recent price from ProjectionDesign is 120000 NOK plus lens. Minus our 25% tax gives 14500USD, again plus lens.

 

[John Kotches]

IMO, they are pricing themselves out of the ball game. Assuming Sony can ramp up production, and the LCD camp improvements for C2Fine are there, it's too high for the product.


Cheers,

 

[TorAtle]

Agreed. They would likely be the first to deliver 1080 single DLP though (march), so that's a plus. Dual lamps is another (should be brighter than Ruby), the ability to adjust bulb brightness is a third.

 

[Ohlson]

In my mind the Projectiondesign model three 1080 has features that makes it possible to charge more.

1 dual bulb with super brightness and brightness adjustments over a wide range

2 Power everything

3 lens selection over wide throw ratios

4 pro quality?

5 first to market?

 

[John Kotches]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohlson In my mind the Projectiondesign model three 1080 has features that makes it possible to charge more. 1 dual bulb with super brightness and brightness adjustments over a wide range 2 Power everything 3 lens selection over wide throw ratios 4 pro quality? 5 first to market?

1. If the usable brightness post calibration is terrible with a single bulb and the dual bulb comes up short for CR then what value is it really? All it does is add cost to the BOM and design which is negative value IMO.
2. Once the projector positioning is locked what value does this really have?
3. Adds dramatically to the cost, for little actual value added when the vast majority of the market can be handled by a single lens option.
4. The Ruby quality and industrial design really sucks eggs Quality is unknown as there's no competing DLPs to measure against at this time.
5. DLP maybe. They are a few years late in comparison to LCoS and a year + late vs. LCD

 

[Randall Morton]

Why would you think the projector would not be usable on a single bulb? I'm sure it would be at least as bright as the Ruby. I would guess the single bulb price would be around half the price of the Ruby bulb also. Two bulbs would be great when watching sports with ambient lighting or in an all purpose room when the lights are on. Power is nice when changing from a 1:85/1 to 2:35/1 if you don't have powered masking.


Also this projector would do well with a very large screen and would have no convergence issues. For people that like DLP I would guess this will be a great projector with quality optics and 1080P. I agree that the pricing may be a bit steep for most but not all.

 

[mdputnam]

Rents have to be paid payrolls have to be met. The upper end market requires equipment in the $10-20k price range. Right now for the DLP camp 720p machines are filling the niche. Next year single chip 1080p machines will fill the niche, the year after that the three chip 1080p machines will fill the niche. It's up to the marketing departments to justify the prices and push the product out. The bottom line is no one can survive with a gaping hole in their product lineup especially if that hole provides a profitable chunk of income. Wether by design or default, 3 chip 1080p DLP will not arrive soon enough to fill that hole.

 

[John Kotches]

Randall,


Time will tell on the brightness issue with a single bulb. One of us will be right, the other won't. It really is that simple. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about raw brightness here, notice the expression "post calibration". Most projectors drop significantly in output after calibration.


I don't see the value in another round of 1-chip DLP at over $12K. If you do, it's your money to spend.

 

[Michael Grant]

Quote:

If the usable brightness post calibration is terrible with a single bulb and the dual bulb comes up short for CR then what value is it really?

Why would the second bulb cause lower CR? Seems to me that it gives more headroom for an iris to collimate the beam, for even higher CR at a given brightness level.

 

[Alan Gouger]

I had the chance to spend the weekend with the 720P version ( I think it was the model 3 ) and in duel bulb mode the black level was elevated a little as expected. That mode cries for a large screen or watching sporting event in some ambient light.

The brightness of the projector running both lamps will light up your room reflecting light back onto the screen lowering contrast but as Michael mentioned the projector itself does not lose contrast.

 

[noah katz]

"Power is nice when changing from a 1:85/1 to 2:35/1 if you don't have powered masking."


Also for zooming down for non-movie daytime watching, for more brightness, less obvious PQ faults, and to preserve big-picture impact for movies.

 

[John Kotches]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Grant Why would the second bulb cause lower CR? Seems to me that it gives more headroom for an iris to collimate the beam, for even higher CR at a given brightness level.

Two bulbs shining onto the same surface area? What are you going to do with double the light spill? Your CR is going to decrease. It won't get cut in half, but it will be lowered vs. a single bulb.

 

[TorAtle]

John, the second bulb is still an added value, don't you think? There are times when that extra brightness is preferrable over a decrease in CR. I agree that the price is steep though.


You can also preserve a chosen brighness over a longer period (if you don't max those two bulbs out from day one) since it is adjustable.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

Quote:

Two bulbs shining onto the same surface area? What are you going to do with double the light spill? Your CR is going to decrease. It won't get cut in half, but it will be lowered vs. a single bulb.

I don't think this is the case at all. The system's ANSI CR won't change, and while yes you will have more spill in absolute terms, the ratios will remain the same, IE ANSI CR will remain the same. I suspect there might be some change based on having two light sources, which would be lower ANSI within the actual projector, but more light output does not affect the ANSI CR of the system at all.

 

[John Kotches]

Chris,


I like the way you changed from absolute to ANSI in midstream, that was a neat trick

 

[ChrisWiggles]

??? maybe I skimmed through too quickly, but you spoke of light spill. That's not going to change.

 

[Scott B]

Chris and John,

The added light output could affect ANSI contrast as there is more light reflecting around the room which can make its way back to the screen and cause washout. On-off contrast will not be affected by doubling the light output because the absolute whites will increase by the same amount as the absolute blacks.

 

[ChrisWiggles]

Quote:

The added light output could affect ANSI contrast as there is more light reflecting around the room which can make its way back to the screen and cause washout. On-off contrast will not be affected by doubling the light output because the absolute whites will increase by the same amount as the absolute blacks.

This is the perception I was talking about, and it's wrong. ANSI is a Ratio, and will not change with changes in light output. Yes, there will be more spill in terms of absolute numbers, but the ratios will remain fixed. Neither on/off nor ANSI changes with increases in light output. Obviously there's stuff inside the machine that can cause that to change, and I am unclear if that's what John was talking about originally. But in terms of "more spill in the room" with more light output, that is not the case at all in terms of lower ANSI CR or more washout. That part of it is false.

 

[darinp2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kotches I like the way you changed from absolute to ANSI in midstream, that was a neat trick

Where are you claiming that the lower CR comes from with 2 bulbs? Remember that x/y = 2x/2y.


--Darin