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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone else waiting on purchasing a 3D display until we see if there are any announcements of 3D projectors using polarization?


I frequently use my current projector for kids movie nights and sporting events, and that is close to a non-starter with a $3k display price (or more at a size for a large group) and (currently) $150 per pair of shutter glasses. Even if they come down to $50 in price, 20 pairs is another $1k, and then the added worry of kids with expensive electronics (not to mention sports fans after a few beers and when their team just blew the game!) and hassle of charging or replacing batteries on so many sets (aka... "pause the movie, my glasses stopped working!"). I realize shutter glasses provide the absolute best 3D experience right now, but the circularly polarized solution looks pretty darn good as well (just tough to do in a flat panel display, which is why it is not being offered now).


So... the way I see it, I either give up the idea of 'events' with 3D and just go with 4 pairs of glasses for the family for around $3500, or wait until CEDIA and see if any sub $4k polarized 3D projectors are announced (preferably under $3k since as silver screen is needed)... is there any technological reason this will not happen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18300315


LG has a polarized dual LCOS chip PJ - it's $10,000

Are there any technical reasons it can't be done more affordably with single DLP (maybe color wheel speed limitations?) or 3LCD (polarizing filters already in the image path?).


BTW, Lee... thanks for all the inputs on this forum... nice to have someone keeping track of all the developments.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri /forum/post/18300341


Are there any technical reasons it can't be done more affordably with single DLP (maybe color wheel speed limitations?) or 3LCD (polarizing filters already in the image path?).

I am one of those people who has just enough info to be considered dangerous



DLP as it is today works with the checkerboard 3D format for presentation which is 1/2 resolution. They already have 720P 3D DLP PJ's. I don't think it is much of a step (tech wise) to offer one in 1080P but it still uses DLP 91 chip) which again is checkerboard.


To do polarized light 3D you need two "types" of light via filters to get the left and right views. Hyundai has done this with 3D LCDs (see 3D FAQ thread for diagram) and they too work on 1/2 resolution.


So - it is my opinion, as that dangerous mildly informed person, that the best way to do Full HD per eye using projected polarized light and a sliver screen for consumer use is to use 2 chips.


Now an expert can correct me.


Quote:
BTW, Lee... thanks for all the inputs on this forum... nice to have someone keeping track of all the developments.

My pleasure - thanks for the kudos.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri /forum/post/18300341


Are there any technical reasons it can't be done more affordably with single DLP (maybe color wheel speed limitations?) or 3LCD (polarizing filters already in the image path?).


BTW, Lee... thanks for all the inputs on this forum... nice to have someone keeping track of all the developments.

It certainly could be done with a DLP by alternating the two polarizations however I suspect implementations using LCD shutter glasses will be more common. You would need to use a relative high speed color wheel but it would not need to be faster than that used in the better 2D DLPs today (5X and 6X). The cost impact is modest for the projector if shutter glasses are used while there is more cost impact impact if polarization is used. So the bottom line will probably be to pay more for the projector that uses low cost polarized glasses or paying less for the projector that uses expensive LCD shutter glasses. Also remember that you cannot use a conventional projection screen with 3D polarized projectors, and compatible 'silver screens' are rather poor for displaying convential 2D video. Therefore, you may be forced into using two different screens which can be a significant cost issue. Since no 1080p home theater DLP projectors have been announced yet (HDMI 1.4a compliant for 3D and Blu-ray 3D compatible), we don't know what alternatives the manufacturer's have planned. We shouild know no later than the CEDIA show in September.
 

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Right. But each engine uses 3 identical chips, not one, with in a bulb powered machine, a prism splitting the light into the three primary colors, one hitting each chip. So its not 2 chips, its 6. Only single chip DLP engines use one chip with the colors obtained by bouncing the light off a color wheel. I am not trying to lecture because I know you already know this, my comment was limited to your reference to two chips. I would accept two engines. Just trying to clarify for casual readers.
 

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The LG Dual Engine appears from the following link to the fact that LD uses differnt video processing chips for processing content received over RF then for content received from an enternal source interface.

http://www.lge.com/au/tv-audio-video...v-50PG60UD.jsp


I understand the Blu-Ray Full 3D standard provides the ability for each eye to see a separate 1920x1080 resolution image that has not been scaled at any time since being "filmed" with a dual lens 1080p capable camera.

Thererfore any solution that simultanously shows a left eye and a right eye solution on a 1080p display/screen and uses colored or polarized glases to separate the images sn not Full 3D solution eince each eye is ony seing 1/2 of the image content.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich /forum/post/18304904


Right. But each engine uses 3 identical chips, not one, with in a bulb powered machine, a prism splitting the light into the three primary colors, one hitting each chip. So its not 2 chips, its 6. Only single chip DLP engines use one chip with the colors obtained by bouncing the light off a color wheel. I am not trying to lecture because I know you already know this, my comment was limited to your reference to two chips. I would accept two engines. Just trying to clarify for casual readers.

I see that now:

Quote:
Dual Engine
http://www.slashgear.com/lg-cf3d-3d-...r-10k-0768920/

Quote:
Its an SXRD (LCOS) design with two separate light paths. There are six SXRD chips in the design-an oddity as SXRD chips are made by Sony and their use outside of Sony projectors are rare.
http://blog.hometheatermag.com/ces2010/010910LG3DPJ/
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18304967


The LG Dual Engine appears from the following link to the fact that LD uses differnt video processing chips for processing content received over RF then for content received from an enternal source interface.

http://www.lge.com/au/tv-audio-video...v-50PG60UD.jsp


I understand the Blu-Ray Full 3D standard provides the ability for each eye to see a separate 1920x1080 resolution image that has not been scaled at any time since being "filmed" with a dual lens 1080p capable camera.

Thererfore any solution that simultanously shows a left eye and a right eye solution on a 1080p display/screen and uses colored or polarized glases to separate the images sn not Full 3D solution eince each eye is ony seing 1/2 of the image content.

As long as they can maintain the frame sequential 3D format from cameras to image, then it will be Full HD per eye. In the case of the LG PJ - each "engine" is producing a seperate Full HD image.
 

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Concerning the LG projector and the quoted $10K price - LG reps. at CES 2010 were saying price had not yet been set if you could get them to say anything at all about the projector (and that's what most first hand reports posted during CES were saying) but there appears to have been at least one CES related report on the web that said it's price would be $10K then within a few days others on the web were saying $10K. We should take the $10K price as speculation until the actual price is confirmed by something official from LG.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18305020


As long as they can maintain the frame sequential 3D format from cameras to image, then it will be Full HD per eye. In the case of the LG PJ - each "engine" is producing a seperate Full HD image.

AFAIK only one of the engines is ever running at a time since the PJ is displaying content from either its internal tuner or from an external source but not both at the sime time unless is using a PIP or POP display option,
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18305979


AFAIK only one of the engines is ever running at a time since the PJ is displaying content from either its internal tuner or from an external source but not both at the sime time unless is using a PIP or POP display option,

IF . . . all you do is attach a 3D BD player to the HDMI input on the PJ, then couldn't the PJ unpack the 1920x2205 3D BD frame and send L images to one engine and R images to the other engine using the frame sequential 3D format?
 

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One engine(video processsing chip) is for getting the best PQ from tuner received content and displaying it and the other engine is for getting the best PQ from external souces such as over HDMI and displaying it. They can not both be creating the screen content at the same time.

Also note that the PJ has to support HDMI 1.4 in order to receive the packed 1920x2205 buffer and has to have at least a 120 HZ frame rate display rate to be able to display each frame at 1080p/60.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18306597


One engine(video processsing chip) is for getting the best PQ from tuner received content and displaying it and the other engine is for getting the best PQ from external souces such as over HDMI and displaying it. They can not both be creating the screen content at the same time.

Are you confusing their old Dual XD Engine found on their discontinued PDP versus Dual Engine LCOS 3D PJ?

Quote:
Also note that the PJ has to support HDMI 1.4 in order to receive the packed 1920x2205 buffer and has to have at least a 120 HZ frame rate display rate to be able to display each frame at 1080p/60.
Quote:
It runs at 120Hz in standard mode, which is then split into two 60Hz signals during 3D usage.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/3058...080p-projector


The demo they gave at CES used a modified LG BD player to deliver 3D images - prototype it sounds like as could be the PJ
 

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Lee,

You are correct I was referencing the now obsolete Dual Engine product I found on the LG webiste.

However, according to the link you provided the newer model LG projector only has a HDMI 1.3 interface chip so it can not support the Full 3D HD packed buffers required to insure that each eye displays unsccaled 1080p content.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18307362


Lee,

You are correct I was referencing the now obsolete Dual Engine product I found on the LG webiste.

However, according to the link you provided the newer model LG projector only has a HDMI 1.3 interface chip so it can not support the Full 3D HD packed buffers required to insure that each eye displays unsccaled 1080p content.

They did demo 3D using that PJ. It may be a pre-production model and the production models will have the necessary 1.4 input.


If you know anything about CES demos - many times products are "cobbled up together" just so they can show a concept, gauge interest on a pre-production product or a simple typo was made in the PR.
 
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