120" Gatorboard screen, need advice on paint color

Ok so I've decided against the Gatorboard idea and instead am going to go the Carl's flexiwhite route, I've already ordered the material and it should be here by next week sometime.

Some additional info about my situation are:

Intended use: 95% Blu-ray/streaming
5% sports

Seating type and location: it'll just be a couch and several bean bags and either can be placed anywhere in the room.

The exact distance of my projector: 156" from front of lense to where the screen will be.

I have an electric Graco sprayer from Lowe's, but don't believe that'll be able to put out a fine enough Mist to get the desired results, as they're used for more large outdoor type projects such as entire houses, fences etc. I do have access to a friend in the auto painting business that will let me borrow his paint booth and equip. for the weekend.

I live in Logan, UT for any sourcing info that people may have.

Also after doing some digging all day yesterday I found this info about the Silver fire v2.5 mix, so please let me know what I'm missing and what I need to add/change for my given situation.

"Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz."

Thanks again for any info people can provide.

OK...some facts and figures......


156" Throw is within 1" of the minimum throw distance needed for a 120" diagonal screen when using a Optoma HD-20


That is just too close to be advisable, so I would suggest you scaling slightly down to a 116" diagonal screen size or better still if possible, move the PJ back another 4"


As far as the choice in the Colorant amount in a given SF Formula goes....you could go with a Silver Fire v2.5 2.0 and get enough help with your Blacks and perceived Contrast but also retain all the brightness you really want to keep. ( 2.0 = 2 oz. Colorant in a 3 quart Mix)


Answering your question.....those who have a PJ with outstanding Blacks / uber-high Contrast can use SF v2.5 N/C in any room that is wholly light controlled. SF v2.5 N/C is also ideally suited for lower Lumen PJs. In actuality. SF v2.5 N/C has an appreciable degree of ALR capability for being as light a shade of Silver/Grey as it is. The addition of Colorant simply ups the ALR performance quotient proportionate to the amount added.

@MississippiMan

Thanks for the reply, and the valuable info given.
We received our screen material on Wednesday and have been playing around with the projector a little bit just casting it on the bare carlswhite screen (no paint yet) to see if the projector even worked and to play around with the settings, and come to find out it is not operating properly, which is probably the reason why we were given it for free 🙄

So to make a long story short we're just gonna bite the bullet and get a new one, and all the research I've been doing lately points me toward the Epson 5050ub because it seems like the best bang for the buck right now, and I don't know if you or anyone else here on the forums knows of places that have great deals on projectors but searching around a little I've found some places selling them for $2700. So if you know of cheaper then definitely point me in that direction.

So my two questions are....

1- Given that everything else remains the same in my situation except that I'll now have the 5050ub and we're gonna up the size of the screen to a 155" diagonal and we're gonna put the projector on a shelf on the back wall (sooo pretty much everything was changed 🤣😂) it'd be from front of lense to the screen 21'4" away. So would a sfv2.5 2.0 still be recommended for that? All the seating we'll have pretty much centered so I'm not too worried about off axis viewing degradation, we mainly just want a really inky picture, we're big fans of inky blacks over any other aspect of a picture, we'd love to get as close to a picture of our lg c8 as possible.

2- In all my research these last few weeks I see that you (MississippiMan) have been in the home theater game for quite some time, which I envy you, and also you've been working with that sf mix for years and perfecting it. So in all the years you've worked with it have you yourself done or seen anyone that's tried a blending method (especially for large screens) where on the left and right edges you start at a much higher gain like a 5.0 or 6.0 colorant mix and then taper down as you get closer to the center of the screen to like a 2.0 or 1.0 colorant mix, and just blend it so it's a seamless transition from one gain to the next? I'm just super curious how'd that work out given that theoretically it should help with off axis viewing and the loss of light reflection toward the outer edges of the screen, or if it'd make hotspotting worse, or screw the coloring up 🤔hmmm

Well first off you have it backwards....the higher the level (ounces) of Colorant added the lower the gain becomes because the depth of Grey becomes much darker and therein has more attenuation.

A projector with the smallest amount of variance between the central point of a projected image and the sides is said to have a very high degree of light uniformity. (80% or more is "high" and the 5050 has 84% !)

What you need to do here is to slow down just enough so that you can learn (...or be advised...) exactly what combination of screen and projector would suit your situation best. Your already very close!

Looking at your previous PJ, the HD20 did/does not have good uniformity (70%) ...the 5050 does. The 5050 also has the lumen output to push a 155" screen, if you do not absolutely have to scrub off it's light output by placing it at such a long throw. Placing the 5050 a full 8' further back on a shelf is going to extremes.(...you would need a 21" deep shelf anyway...) Instead, avail yourself of the 5050's large amount of Lens Shift and mount it as high as possible. BTW...the 5050 is big...and fairly heavy, so it requires a good sturdy Mount with rock solid adjust-ability. Per such requirements, the Chief RPA-357 Dedicated or it's Peerless alternative are the only two really viable options to consider.

So what you really want is a Screen that will help get you the Blacks you crave while also maintaining as close to a 1.0 gain as possible. Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 (4 oz Colorant per 3 quarts Mix) would be ideally suited. The 5050 already has excellent Blacks for such a high lumen PJ, and with the right screen and effective use of the Lamp/Lens/Calibration,you can achieve almost Interstellar-like blacks while also having excellent Color and White vibrancy.

BUT you do not want to place the PJ 21' away unless you have no other options. 15'-4", mounted inverted would be ideal. even 17'-4" is considerably better that 21' !!! Light uniformity is impacted by distance...the more wide open the Len's aperture is, the better. The large increase in screen size to155" is of course epic, and to be desired....but is it a case of your desire getting the best of practicality? 143" diagonal is still a very large jump from 120" (70" x 125") and is the size I would strongly recommend.

Lastly, trying to offset light loss at the edges by increasing Gain only in that area is not ever done in the manner you thinking about. And since any such noticeable loss of edge brightness will not be an issue with the selected screen / PJ combo anyway (...besides, you said above your seating was more centralized...) pursuing such a course would be futile even if possible.

You've chosen a great PJ with great specs for a reasonable price....and making a screen that will compliment it's performance is in the bag, so stop overthinking the equation and start your planning.

@MississippiMan

Once again you're awesome for the info provided!

And yes I totally had the whole higher colorant=higher gain thing backwards, thanks for clarifying that for me.

The shelf we have is 18" deep, so I thought it would work perfect because the specs I looked up on the 5050 said it was 17.7" deep, and the feet are even in a tad more then that, so I figured the feet at most would be 17" apart. But with the other info you provided that will be a moot point anyways, because our goal is to get the best picture possible and so if that means extra elbow grease on our part we'll do it. So on your recommendation we're going to scrap the shelf idea and go back to ceiling mounting the projector. Which means well have to take down the current Projector box in the room and move it back, because in it's current spot we'd only get 12'8" from the screen with the 5050. But it'd just be a matter of unscrewing about 10 screws and re-caulking it.
But you also recommended that the projector be inverted on a ceiling mount, but if we use the projector box then the 5050 wouldn't be inverted but will be mounted up high near the ceiling, so if it can't throw a proper picture like that I'd most likely build a diy stand for the projector to sit on inverted inside the projector box. What's your thoughts on that?

I think the 155" is definitely a must have according to the family decision, because I had my wife and kiddos sit in what would be the "perfect" seat in the room and I was able to get the HD20 to throw a test pattern so I stood behind them holding the projector and walked back and forth until they decided on what would be the perfect size screen for us at a 16:9 ratio and the size they really liked landed us almost exactly at 155" diagonal (135"x76) and I tried to get my wife to go a tad smaller but she loved it there so that's where we're staying at on that.

So the distance we can put the projector I guess would be anywhere in the room. We really don't want to spend anymore money especially since we're dropping an unexpected $3k on a projector and I already went over budget on the speakers by doing a build from the diysoundgroup, so if we can use the projector box and not have to buy a ceiling mount that'd be great.

And I definitely wouldn't be attempting to do the whole fading the paint inward thing, I'm not near experienced enough for that, I was just super curious if anyone had ever done that. As I was doing my research on what screen gain was and why you would or wouldn't want more of it my wheels got turning about how to have the perfect, ultimate screen uniformity, but like I said I'm a total noob at this so I'd never attempt such thing even if possible haha 🙄

Thanks for taking time to reply, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the projector box and the projector being up high but not inverted. Thanks!!

Trogloraptor said:

@MississippiMan

Once last question then I'll leave you alone (I promise).... I bet you've never heard that one before.

Click to expand...

Oh I hear it all the time...and have heard it repeatedly over the last 17 years. But I always answer the same: "I don't worry about Member's asking questions....it's the unasked questions that I fret over. The more interaction there is in DIY, the greater the chances of success."


So go ahead......use me...abuse me....but don't lose me. Oh yeah...don't make a promise you shouldn't keep. OYRMVW

Is it possible to paint my screen material (carlswhite) not mounted to the frame in a separate location like a vented paint booth, garage etc, let it dry for a day or so then roll it up, bring it to my basement theater room and mount it to the frame there? Or will that create problems when I go to stretch the material over the frame with the paint getting cracks, chips or anything of the sort in it?

Click to expand...

1st off, I would not say that you would have to worry so much about cracks or chips....it's the "anything"that might bite....primarily soiling the edges while your in the process of attaching the painted material to the frame. ESPECIALLY if you try to rush things and mount the material in "a day or so" while it is still in the process of being Cured.

2ndly, The material itself would still need to be securely held down around the edges (not just the corners )while being painted.

All in all it's just not practical to paint a loose or unsupported material. "Not practical" does not infer "impossible" or "to be avoided at all costs", but rather to understand completely that your going to introduce more unknowns and potential issues, so you will have to judge / deal with such accordingly.

A Flexi-Screen of pretty big proportions doesn't weigh even 20 lbs so heft is not a issue. If the size desired just doesn't jive with the available access into the Basement (Stairs with landings, low Ceilings, etc...) then that speaks to spraying the Screen in-place...which of course completely mitigates all those niggling potential issues.

Lastly, say you build the frame and install the Flexi and paint it elsewhere, and in the process taking it down into the Basement and mounting it you mar the finish a little, spot repair is easy...and of course a lot less "messy" a proposition than completely painting the Screen in the Basements.


PS.....
With a room properly prepped, it really doesn't have to be a messy proposition at all.

MississippiMan said:

Trogloraptor said:

@MississippiMan

Once last question then I'll leave you alone (I promise).... I bet you've never heard that one before.

Click to expand...

Oh I hear it all the time...and have heard it repeatedly over the last 17 years. But I always answer the same: "I don't worry about Member's asking questions....it's the unasked questions that I fret over. The more interaction there is in DIY, the greater the chances of success."


So go ahead......use me...abuse me....but don't lose me./forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Oh yeah...don't make a promise you shouldn't keep. OYRMVW

Is it possible to paint my screen material (carlswhite) not mounted to the frame in a separate location like a vented paint booth, garage etc, let it dry for a day or so then roll it up, bring it to my basement theater room and mount it to the frame there? Or will that create problems when I go to stretch the material over the frame with the paint getting cracks, chips or anything of the sort in it?

Click to expand...

1st off, I would not say that you would have to worry so much about cracks or chips....it's the "anything"that might bite....primarily soiling the edges while your in the process of attaching the painted material to the frame. ESPECIALLY if you try to rush things and mount the material in "a day or so" while it is still in the process of being Cured.

2ndly, The material itself would still need to be securely held down around the edges (not just the corners )while being painted.

All in all it's just not practical to paint a loose or unsupported material. "Not practical" does not infer "impossible" or "to be avoided at all costs", but rather to understand completely that your going to introduce more unknowns and potential issues, so you will have to judge / deal with such accordingly.

A Flexi-Screen of pretty big proportions doesn't weigh even 20 lbs so heft is not a issue. If the size desired just doesn't jive with the available access into the Basement (Stairs with landings, low Ceilings, etc...) then that speaks to spraying the Screen in-place...which of course completely mitigates all those niggling potential issues.

Lastly, say you build the frame and install the Flexi and paint it elsewhere, and in the process taking it down into the Basement and mounting it you mar the finish a little, spot repair is easy...and of course a lot less "messy" a proposition than completely painting the Screen in the Basements.


PS.....
With a room properly prepped, it really doesn't have to be a messy proposition at all.

Click to expand...

Thanks!
And you're already making me break my promise 🙄🤫 sooo here it goes...

The reason I was asking is because the screen at 155" diagonal wound be 84" tall from edge to edge of frame which isn't even close to fitting through my doors, even side ways or anyways lol. So I either have to temporarily mount it in my garage, spray it, dissemble it, roll it up and reassemble it in my basement, or just assemble it in the basement and do the spraying there.
Doing it in the basement I'm not as concerned about the messiness of it (because it's probably easier/quicker masking everything off, then doing my other method in the garage) as I am the ventilation/contaminants the paint will create in the room, because there's no ventilation other then the door leading into the room, and we have a son who has severe allergies (food allergies, bug allergies, airborne allergies, you name it) and he's shown symptoms in the past to have reactions to newer painted rooms (nothing super severe though, just sleep related complications) so I guess my few additional questions I promised I wouldn't ask are...
1- are there any good techniques for venting a room such as mine, or just large box fans?
2- how long would you say on average the smell and or air contaminants remain in the room?
3- if I were to do it in the garage how long should I leave it to cure after the last coat has been applied before rolling it up and assembling in the basement?

• Each Coat would involved the Gun running for about 90 seconds maximum....if indeed that long. Probably closer to 60 seconds.
• The paint is very "wet" and produces much less "Bounce" off the surface receiving paint.
• All the components are water based.....but certainly not to be willfully inhaled.
• Renting a 24" Exhaust Fan with Flexible Tube (Home Depo or Jiffy Rental) would be the really certain way to be as non-intrusive "atmospherically" as possible.
• Running the fan while spraying and for 3-4 minutes afterward would be / is a tremendous difference
• With proper set-up, painting the entire screen...all 7-8 coats, will involve 2.5-3 hours.
• Drying time with Fan assist is only 20 minutes between coats...
• When you take down the Plastic and roll it up, you remove a LOT of the offending material.
• Even at 155", the amount of surface area painted is much less that dealing with 4 Walls and/or a Ceiling.

I have used Exhaust Fan set-ups like I mentioned when I was spraying Screens coated with highly flammable Oil Based Enamels.......that was scary business. You have Zero issues like that to contend with, and beyond the actual very small amount of over spray that is created and sucked away, the Fan assisted Drying works to cure the screen "between coats" so any post-paint out-gassing is extremely minimal. Lastly, if you can do the painting while the Family/Boy is out, and raise the Temp of that room past 80 degrees....everything will happen all the more quickly and with even less residual odor.


If you did / do paint it in the garage, after letting it dry overnight...if drying conditions are good...I would NOT roll it...I would "Cup it length-wise, Paint side in" and two people carry it carefully inside / downstairs.