[fjerina]

I just read an article and here is an portion of it...


"Video purists love 24p, but most of us won’t be able to see the difference. And 24p goes much more nicely into 120 Hertz (5:5 pulldown), though few TVs with 120 Hz are capable of 5:5 at this time. Most were doing the 3:2 processing to 60 Hz, then doubling that to 120 Hz. Expect to see more of this 5:5 processing as the technology evolves."


So the question is, are any 120 Hz LCD sets out there doing 5:5 pulldown??? Or is that for something we will see in the future???

 

[Cattledog]

Sony XBR4 and XBR5 series.

 

[fjerina]

So, the following is from the specs of the XBR4. Is the following write-up refering to the 5:5 pulldown???


24p True Cinema (24p Input Capability)

Many movies are filmed at 24 frames per second (fps) and prime time TV programs are recorded at 24p. Seizing on an opportunity, some studios are taking a purist approach and encoding high definition video content such as Blu-ray Disc in 24p. Sony wisely takes advantage of this by including 24p output capability on our Blu-ray Disc players as well as including 24p input capability select 2007 BRAVIA TVs. The benefit? Images are smooth and natural looking. Once you experience 24p video it will be hard to view video without it.

 

[lrstevens421]

^^^ That just states that the Sony accepts and handles 24p. The XBR4/5 is a 120HZ display and operates at 120HZ at all times. It does 5:5 pulldown with 24fps sources. Strangely enough the Sony converts all sources to 1080p24 and then does 5:5 pulldown.


This is taken from Cnet.com

"Video processing: We spent a good deal of time looking at various scenes and how they were affected by the Sony's 120Hz processing, and in general the set did a better job smoothing things out and still keeping them looking natural than the Toshiba, and both 120Hz LCDs severely outclassed the Pioneer's Smooth mode. (Update 10/19/07) We originally wrote that the Sony did not offer a 120Hz mode without smoothing, but that's not the case. Turning off its smooth mode still keeps 120Hz engaged. Unlike the Toshiba, which can disengage 120Hz mode, the Sony cannot."


http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...tag=prod.txt.1

 

[lrstevens421]

More info....


Regarding the Sony doing 5:5, read here (courtesy of Bplewis24):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post11964329

"The new XBR sets will not only display 24p as 5:5, but they will also take 60i, convert it to 24p, then display it at 120hz 5:5. The downside of the latter is that it takes a few frames to lock on the cadence of the signal, so it is better to feed 24p if possible. Be sure to check out the "theatre" viewing mode as well. SPE helped out with that and it works well. It is designed to emulate the picture on a professional display".


- Discussed in the Perfect Vision magazine and blu-ray.com

 

[fjerina]

Does anyone know if these great features in the Sony XBR4 and XBR4 LCD sets are also found in the Sony SXRD microdisplay rear-projection sets???

 

[bigjohns1997SS]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 /forum/post/12394715


More info....


Regarding the Sony doing 5:5, read here (courtesy of Bplewis24):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post11964329

"The new XBR sets will not only display 24p as 5:5, but they will also take 60i, convert it to 24p, then display it at 120hz 5:5. The downside of the latter is that it takes a few frames to lock on the cadence of the signal, so it is better to feed 24p if possible. Be sure to check out the "theatre" viewing mode as well. SPE helped out with that and it works well. It is designed to emulate the picture on a professional display".


- Discussed in the Perfect Vision magazine and blu-ray.com

Are you sure this happens with cinemotion turned off?

 

[lrstevens421]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS /forum/post/12395414


Are you sure this happens with cinemotion turned off?

Yes. Cinemotion does help with pans/movement on non 1080p24 sources but it does not change the design scheme of the display. The Sonys 120HZ cannot be disengaged so all it sources have to be converted to this.

 

[lrstevens421]



Quote:
Originally Posted by fjerina /forum/post/12395361


Does anyone know if these great features in the Sony XBR4 and XBR4 LCD sets are also found in the Sony SXRD microdisplay rear-projection sets???

I believe the A3000 series incorporates this as well. I'm not 100% sure if it's a true 120HZ display or if it doubles 60HZ, I believe it is a true 120Hz display.

 

[jasonblair]

So question... wouldn't converting everything to 1080p24 eliminate judder in movies, but CREATE judder on TV shows and video material? Just seems like you are trading one evil for another?

 

[shinksma]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonblair /forum/post/12398471


So question... wouldn't converting everything to 1080p24 eliminate judder in movies, but CREATE judder on TV shows and video material? Just seems like you are trading one evil for another?

Only film based stuff gets output and displayed using 24fps and 5:5 pulldown. Regular TV programming (nominally 30 or 60Hz) will get 2:2 or 4:4 pulldown to display at 120Hz. The TV can detect which signal type it is and treat it appropriately.


Everybody wins!!


shinksma

 

[lrstevens421]



Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma /forum/post/12398578


Only film based stuff gets output and displayed using 24fps and 5:5 pulldown. Regular TV programming (nominally 30 or 60Hz) will get 2:2 or 4:4 pulldown to display at 120Hz. The TV can detect which signal type it is and treat it appropriately.


Everybody wins!!


shinksma

Actually the Sony even converts 60i sources to 24p. Doing this can introduce artifacts but Sony's "cinemotion" does a great job of smoothing out the image. It's almost a non-issue, atleast in my case.

 

[trueimage]

so the xbr44 and xbr5 are the only LCD sets doing true 120Hz with 5:5 pulldown, not 3:2 then doubling. Even the Samsung 71 and 81 series?


Slightly offtopic, but what about good plasmas like the Kuro? This is a must have feature for my next set....

 

[lrstevens421]

The Kuro is a 72hz display and does 3:3. I could be mistaken but I thought the Samsung 71 did do 5:5.

 

[tmeader]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 /forum/post/12560277


The Kuro is a 72hz display and does 3:3. I could be mistaken but I thought the Samsung 71 did do 5:5.

Yes, with the newest firmware, and Samsung's "AMP" set to Off", it does 5:5.

 

[killswitch_19]

^ Does that go for the Samsung LNT4669 as well?

 

[vincevega44]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tmeader /forum/post/12561085


Yes, with the newest firmware, and Samsung's "AMP" set to Off", it does 5:5.

What firmware makes the Samsung do a 5:5 pulldown? I thought it only did 3:2.

 

[Ethek]

Sharp 94Se may be doing 5:5 but nothing is confirmed I don't think.

 

[Gary McCoy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vincevega44 /forum/post/13193033


What firmware makes the Samsung do a 5:5 pulldown? I thought it only did 3:2.

All versions of Samsung xx69 and xx71 do 5:5 pulldown when AMP is OFF. That's just the way it works. 1080p24 video input clocks the input buffer once per frame, or 24 times per second. The native panel rate is 1080p120 at all times - it cannot ever be anything else. That means that each input frame is displayed 5 times, aka "5:5".


"3:2" pulldown is something different. The video processor looks at the 1080i60 input and detects the "cadence" of 3frames/2frames/3frames/etc. It then "Locks" onto the cadence to reconstruct the original 24fps, but because there is a lag involved in cadence detection, the result is imperfect - which you see as "artifacts".


That's why it is better to just feed 24fps - no confusion, no lag, no artifacts. Another good reason is that the video processor will be less busy with vanilla 24fps input, and will have available bandwidth for image processing such as advanced deinterlacing, resolution scaling, digital noise filtering, dynamic contrast enhancement, etc.