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I'm starting this thread is response to a certain Mr. Li who cannot understand my hypothesis as to why I've gotten used to seeing 4:3 zoomed to fill 16:9 (stretch sides more than center and stretch vertical height as well).


My theory is that your brain, after enough exposure, actually adjusts your perception, resulting in a non-distorted end result, even though it's obviously distorted. This takes time, like the amount of time it takes for you to get adjusted to seeing a flat screen (which at first will seem curving INWARDS until your brain adjusts for it).


At a local best buy, they have a Tosh 40H80 filling it's 16:9 screen with 4:3 next to 4:3 direct views. I can honestly say, in this side by side comparo, that I can't really notice the difference, except for the fact that there is some vertical info lost.


Most people who haven't spent the time to get used to it automatically write it off as an unacceptable practice (like Mr. Li). But for owners of 16:9 sets who have actually spent time for their brain to adjust, do you even notice the distortion anymore?


Or is it just my friggin' brain that's doing this to me???


coming from:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/012965-2.html


MMAfia




[This message has been edited by MonkeyMafia (edited 04-05-2001).]
 

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I obviously can't speak for Mr. Li, but...


I've read all of the messages posted in that other thread, and I think you may be overreacting a little, MMafia.
Quote:
this thread is response to a certain Mr. Li who cannot understand my hypothesis as to why I've gotten used to seeing 4:3 zoomed to fill 16:9
I believe that he clearly does understand that you've adapted to watching zoomed 4:3 content, but disagrees with your oft-repeated (and probably exaggerated) claim that you can't notice any difference, side-by-side.


I think I know what you mean too, but come on --


At that Best Buy display, how could you possibly tell which was which if you literally could not tell any difference, side-by-side?


(You really would have to have some sort of brain disorder, wouldn't you?)




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nn2g2bT = Not NECESSARILY Too Good to be True
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyMafia:


My theory is that your brain, after enough exposure, actually adjusts your perception, resulting in a non-distorted end result, even though it's obviously distorted. This takes time, like the amount of time it takes for you to get adjusted to seeing a flat screen (which at first will seem curving INWARDS until your brain adjusts for it).
I think your theory makes good sense, MMafia! (Honest!)


But then MY brain disorder ( http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif ) is already well documented.


[EDIT: Thanks for reeling me in again, ELCid -- you're the one who dubbed me "Not Nearly 2 Great 2 Be Thumped," aren't you? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/tongue.gif ]



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nn2g2bT = Not NECESSARILY Too Good to be True


[This message has been edited by nn2g2bT (edited 04-05-2001).]
 

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I also watch 4:3 material in a stretch mode, specifically, the Toshiba "Theatre-wide" stretch mode that stretches the sides more than the center such that the area of focus is not too distorted. It doesn't bother me and I figure it is better than gray or black bars that might cause burn in.


But the nice thing about these sets is they give you many different options: 4:3 with gray bars, full (linear stretch), and three different "theatre-wide" stretch modes that have different combos of unproportional stretching and vertical clipping. Pick your favorite.


I wish my E* model 6000 gave me so many good choices.
 

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I purchased my Toshiba about 18 months ago and have not watched 4:3 native since. I believe the reasons are two-fold;

1. At the time in the 40 inch or so size, Toshiba and Mitusbishi where the only games in town. Things may have changed since, but the TW1 stretch mode on the Toshiba was far superior IMHO. I would have had problems watching 4:3 material stretched on the Mits, I found the Theater Wide mode quite acceptable.

2. It didn't take long and I buy in to the theory that your brain adjusts to the distortions. When watching the 4:3 stretched material I cannot perceive any distortion (maybe I'm brain dead) or any difference than a native 16:9 broadcast (I'm not talking about picture quality issues just the stretching). I haven't done any side by side comparisons, I would think I would still be able to notice a difference in this case.
 

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It's all so simple, really: I watch everything in stretched mode until Brooke Burke in a bikini appears--then I quickly macro back to 4:3 so as to get the full effect of her magnificent body! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 

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I simply do not watch 4X3 on my HDTV, that's like using regular gas on a $50,000 sports car. 16X9 television is far superior, HDTV is far superior. Once you watch that, you just can't go back to the 4X3 SD box effect. I have a regular tube TV to watch the little 4X3 I still watch, and for anamorphic DVD's and HD programming, I use my HDTV.
 

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I watch in the TW1 stretch mode on my Toshiba TW65H80. I might also add that I've had at least 25 people to my house for demo's etc. Only one person ever commented about the stretch mode before I pointed it out. It's so gradual I really never noticed it even on the first day. Like some others have said, I hate the grey bars much more than the little stretching TW1 provides.


Roger
 

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I've had my Pioneer Elite 610 set for almost three months, and my wife hasn't even noticed that any stretching is going on. We watch 4x3 stuff using the "Natural Wide" setting.


I've only used the 4x3 mode once for novelty value, but couldn't stand more than 10 seconds of it. If it was possible to delete picture settings on that TV, I'd nuke 4x3 with extreme prejudice. I'd enjoy watching 4x3 more on my 20 year old Hitachi. Grey bars! Black Bars! Tiny picture! No thanks!


Rich
 

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I still watch a fair amount of 4x3 content on my Mits 46807, and use the "Stretch" mode the 2001 Mits have, which like similar modes on other TVs stretch the sides more then the center. While I can tell the difference in a side-by-side comparison, it isn't anything that bothers me anymore. I've gotten so used to it now that normally I don't notice anything wrong. In my opinion, it is better then the gray bars. I even had people over to see the Oscars recently and when I asked if they could tell it was stretched the general reaction was "Huh?" as no one had any idea anything was different.


--Andrew
 

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equack, the voice of reason.


OAR all the way. Full content, correct aspect, no Manchurian Candidate stretch brainwashing http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Proper geometry is important to me, but I seem to be in the minority on this thread.


Grey bars on both the DST3000 & Dish 6000. I think these are easy to get used to after a couple days on an RPTV.


Tim
 

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Generally, I watch 4:3 material with black bars on the side. With my LCD display, the picture tends to soften quite a bit when you zoom and I've never liked the stretch mode. The exceptions are letterboxed shows like ER or certain PBS specials, which I watch in Zoom mode using the Dish 6000.


Dennis


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Dennis Whiteman

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Quote:
Originally posted by RSongco:


It's all so simple, really: I watch everything in stretched mode until Brooke Burke in a bikini appears--then I quickly macro back to 4:3 so as to get the full effect of her magnificent body!
I, too, am a sexist pig. I use stretch mode most of the time, but there are some women that simply must be seen in their OAR! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif



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James


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I watch 4:3 in just mode on my 16x9 Panasonic. It really took about one day to get use to it. I never think about it anymore.
 

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I watch 4:3 in streched mode. The only time I notice it is when there is a tv in the background and it looks like a high def set (16:9) http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif but I know it cannot be given when the picture was made.


joe
 

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I must admit that I am lazy. I run PowerDVD on an HTPC projecting on a 110" screen. So, for DVD's, I simply run PDVD full screen with aspect ration control unchecked. This scales 4:3 material horizontally to fill the 16:9 screen.


I use YxY to scale 2.35 material vertically to also fill my screen. So, I am a full screen bigot. I figure that if I have a 110" screen I ought to fill it. I have found however that I do not like the pan and scan feature in PDVD since it cuts off information when it scales in either direction.


Bernd
 

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Strictly OAR. I watch 4x3 with black or grey bars only. For the stations that streach their 4x3 to do the so called 14x9, I switch over to the analog channel to get the 4x3. I absolutely will not watch anything that is streached.


Rick
 

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I too have not watched anything in native mode since I got my Tosh TW65X81. theater wide is accurate...


How would any feel if they went to movie theater and watched a film on a SQUARE screen?????


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So, there are definitely two kinds of people:


People who can't stand stretching and people who don't mind, and don't even notice after a day or so.


I find this very interesting. I wonder if this trait extends to other traits, genes, or personality types?


It certainly seems distinct - you are either a stretchy or not. There doesn't seem to be any in-between.


Does anyone else find this incredibly interesting? The fact that we're all human beings with stereoscopic vision, who can completely interpret horizontal distortions differently?




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