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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Curious on peoples opinions on the above. I heard two of these subs at my work place playing some recorded music and they absolutely blast bass, more than what my SVS PB-13 ultra is capable of . How would they sound in a home audio set up? I understand the lowest note they play is about 35 Hz or so but that's fine for most music? How would one of the proper PA subs sound in conjunction with my SVS taking over the lower bass?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/15452840


Curious on peoples opinions on the above. I heard two of these subs at my work place playing some recorded music and they absolutely blast bass, more than what my SVS PB-13 ultra is capable of . How would they sound in a home audio set up? I understand the lowest note they play is about 35 Hz or so but that's fine for most music? How would one of the proper PA subs sound in conjunction with my SVS taking over the lower bass?

Like dynamite mate like dynamite I mean lets face facts shall we most of all movies are mixed on JBL nearly all cinemas worldwide use JBL and you're asking this question, 20 years ago forums like this never existed and I didn't need to ask what speaker system I knew there can only be one. (JBL was at the birth of the talkies 1927 The Jazz Singer) and you can bet you'll never see SVS behind a cinema screen or in the top dubbing theatres in or around the world, unless it's someone's basement dubbing theatre in and old disused missile cylo for extra sound proof.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBLsound4645 /forum/post/15453166


Like dynamite mate like dynamite I mean lets face facts shall we most of all movies are mixed on JBL nearly all cinemas worldwide use JBL and you're asking this question, 20 years ago forums like this never existed and I didn't need to ask what speaker system I knew there can only be one. (JBL was at the birth of the talkies 1927 The Jazz Singer) and you can bet you'll never see SVS behind a cinema screen or in the top dubbing theatres in or around the world, unless it's someone's basement dubbing theatre in and old disused missile cylo for extra sound proof.



Of course you're not biased towards JBL!
I always wanted a pair of L 100's. By the time I was earning enough money to buy JBL they were discontinued. I did buy my GF for Christmas an I pod docking station with the JBL logo on it, does that count?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/15452840


Curious on peoples opinions on the above. I heard two of these subs at my work place playing some recorded music and they absolutely blast bass, more than what my SVS PB-13 ultra is capable of . How would they sound in a home audio set up? I understand the lowest note they play is about 35 Hz or so but that's fine for most music? How would one of the proper PA subs sound in conjunction with my SVS taking over the lower bass?

I have a Madison M1-218 which is 2)18" pro drivers in a 13 cubic foot ported box with high sensitivity. It has output galore but does roll off around 25hz or so. I'm sure output would be similar to the JBLs so I would think the SVS would have problems keeping up.
 

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What kind of music will you be listening to? Even for music, there are different stuff even in the pro arena. It may make a difference. But generally you have 2 routes here to take, get a active pro sub or passive + amp, or another PB13U. Not sure what are the costs over in Aussie, so you gotta do your Math.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Typically metal. Could also look at the JBL Pro cinema subs which extend to 25 Hz. I just don't seem to get that kick in the gut that you usually get with PA systems. This is a path way which I may want to pursue with my audio system in the future, going all pro audio. I can get hold of JBL Pro cinema gear from my work place easily enough. I have pushed my audio system to its limits even in a 3000 cubic foot room with fairly large amplifiers and am looking for the next step to take. Is this plausible?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/15453590


Typically metal. Could also look at the JBL Pro cinema subs which extend to 25 Hz. I just don't seem to get that kick in the gut that you usually get with PA systems. This is a path way which I may want to pursue with my audio system in the future, going all pro audio. I can get hold of JBL Pro cinema gear from my work place easily enough. I have pushed my audio system to its limits even in a 3000 cubic foot room with fairly large amplifiers and am looking for the next step to take. Is this plausible?

It's doable.


Look for Australian cinema supplier's down-under mate, should find a few that have reconditioned JBL cinema pro, going on the cheap side and that's a good sign.


You're room is only what 1.5, 2.4 times larger than mine and I've attended one heck of an awesome JBL cinema in the UK, at London's famous Empire Leicester Square, and the JBL sound has never disappointed unless it's a buggered up film print in which case that's a different matter.


25Hz is plenty enough with a few JBL 4645C in that room, if the Empire can do it with x16 subs and they need x16 to go beyond the most rumbling soundtracks at high levels while reproducing wide uniformly smooth frequency response when the LFE.1 track cuts in. or if it was (Dolby stereo optical A or SR) the sub bass extension module will be activated at the push of the Dolby format button and reroute the low end to the subs and it sounds fantastic.


Visit this thread
The Empire Leicester Square screen 1 a JBL installation, West End London United Kingdom
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028209


The sub bass array is 13 feet across and just wee bit over 8 feet high 20KW and most don't have that size on this site, unless they are the Empire! LOL The Empire Strikes Back! LOL






Again, it's doable.
 

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Though JBL is a great icon (I think HK made them to consumerized) they have slipped somewhat. Again I say somewhat.


I would beg to differ re: the "pro" world. I think the likes of Adams, Genelec, Dynacoutics, Meyer, Tannoy, ATC, EAW and Klipsch have given them a run for the money in the live, studio and cinema markets the past 10 years.


That is not saying JBL is any more or less a product.


Give me a sec to get the flame proof suit on...
 

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Does anyone sell just the JBL driver? I might be in the mood for one for a homebrew midbass module.
 

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I have used many different types of subs. I think once you reach a certain level of bass quality the sound becomes more alike than different. Good quality bass is good quality bass. The big difference is between extension and power. I have owned SVS subs, the best being 3 16-46cs+ cylinders(Have not heard the ultra), M&K subs(many but their best was the MX-5000), klipsch THX ultra 2 subs, the madison pro subs previously mentioned, and now DIY 18 inch ported and sealed subs. My favorite were a combination of both. The sound and power of the pro subs were just amazing and made me realize what reference levels were all about without compression. The 3 SVS cylinders and Klipsch subs made me realize what extension was about so I thought. The SVS subs would shake my room more than the pro subs so I thought they had better extension. What the real difference was the sound and power. I will give 2 examples that happened in my room(others could very well have different results). I played the infamous Pulse movie scene with the 15-19 hz pulse wave and sonic bliss. The Svs subs again would shake things more(at least that is what it sound like). I took out my spl meter and the SVS subs were at 110 db's and the pro subs were also at 110 db's so it was not more extension but rather just a different sound. I then put in WOTW pod emerge and the SVS would peak out at 112 db's and the 2 pro subs would peak out at 123 db's, again with the Svs sounding like it had more shake. They were just different sounding. The midbass was no contest as the pro subs would just slap you in the face. I have since built DIY sealed 18's. To be fair I will give you the numbers with all at the same cost(around $1200), up front location(12 feet away from the LP), with all the same amps except the SVS. 1 SVS pb12/plus/2(was $1200 for me) would get me 110 db's on pulse, and 112 db's on WOTW. 2 pro subs, dual Madison subs($1360) would get me 110 db's on pulse and 123 db's om WOTW. My four ported 18 inch sono's($1700) would get me 120 db's on pulse and 126 db's on WOTW. The Svs subs still sound like they rattle things or shake things more and the other 2 sound more alike. I don't know what that means but clearly the more shaking is not because of its power but its sound. The DIY subs were much more visceral on the body. Now I have about $3200 worth of DIY sealed subs and I pin the meter past 126 db's no matter what scene(heavy bass) I play. Just my experiences with different types of subs. BTW, it is close in midbass between the DIY and the pro subs giving the slight nod to the pro subs(thanks to the dual horn subs). I had 4 pro subs and now 8 DIY sealed subs for the comparison.
 

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Its funny the irony of pro audio and consumer audio. I've worked in both fields, recording studios, stereo stores, pro audio retailers and I would still say one is for mixing and mastering and the other is for your home. It's just the way it is. Which will cause you to have more questions than answers...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran /forum/post/15459551


Its funny the irony of pro audio and consumer audio. I've worked in both fields, recording studios, stereo stores, pro audio retailers and I would still say one is for mixing and mastering and the other is for your home. It's just the way it is. Which will cause you to have more questions than answers...

You bring up another good point. As big as the SVS subs were they actually blend and look nice in my room but the pro subs and sonos stick out like a sore thumb. I would only suggest the pro audio or massive sonos's if you can hide them completely. Looks do not matter to me since I hide them. Remember guys that my experiences are what they are because I have massive room gain so my subs will go very low no matter which type.
 

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The whole speaker is even more outrageous.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/15460180


I bought my 3622N's for $750 each. Can I build one just as good for less?


I'm willing to bet. I'll look up the specs on the 3622n's driver tomorrow and see what pro drivers model similarly. There are a ton of pro drivers in the $150 - $300 range. I think 1 sheet of MDF would make a decent enclosure. So you're talking port parts and terminals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Got some pricing for the 4645C. Turns out a little bit cheaper than what the PB-13 ultra had cost me with a crown amplifier for the JBL. Those claims for the JBL of less than 1% second and third order harmonic distortion are extremely impressive. What kind of EQ would those subs require to reach 25hz? Any EQ that can provide boost at the lower end I'm assuming?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater /forum/post/15459513


I have used many different types of subs. I think once you reach a certain level of bass quality the sound becomes more alike than different. Good quality bass is good quality bass. The big difference is between extension and power. I have owned SVS subs, the best being 3 16-46cs+ cylinders(Have not heard the ultra), M&K subs(many but their best was the MX-5000), klipsch THX ultra 2 subs, the madison pro subs previously mentioned, and now DIY 18 inch ported and sealed subs. My favorite were a combination of both. The sound and power of the pro subs were just amazing and made me realize what reference levels were all about without compression. The 3 SVS cylinders and Klipsch subs made me realize what extension was about so I thought. The SVS subs would shake my room more than the pro subs so I thought they had better extension. What the real difference was the sound and power. I will give 2 examples that happened in my room(others could very well have different results). I played the infamous Pulse movie scene with the 15-19 hz pulse wave and sonic bliss. The Svs subs again would shake things more(at least that is what it sound like). I took out my spl meter and the SVS subs were at 110 db's and the pro subs were also at 110 db's so it was not more extension but rather just a different sound. I then put in WOTW pod emerge and the SVS would peak out at 112 db's and the 2 pro subs would peak out at 123 db's, again with the Svs sounding like it had more shake. They were just different sounding. The midbass was no contest as the pro subs would just slap you in the face. I have since built DIY sealed 18's. To be fair I will give you the numbers with all at the same cost(around $1200), up front location(12 feet away from the LP), with all the same amps except the SVS. 1 SVS pb12/plus/2(was $1200 for me) would get me 110 db's on pulse, and 112 db's on WOTW. 2 pro subs, dual Madison subs($1360) would get me 110 db's on pulse and 123 db's om WOTW. My four ported 18 inch sono's($1700) would get me 120 db's on pulse and 126 db's on WOTW. The Svs subs still sound like they rattle things or shake things more and the other 2 sound more alike. I don't know what that means but clearly the more shaking is not because of its power but its sound. The DIY subs were much more visceral on the body. Now I have about $3200 worth of DIY sealed subs and I pin the meter past 126 db's no matter what scene(heavy bass) I play. Just my experiences with different types of subs. BTW, it is close in midbass between the DIY and the pro subs giving the slight nod to the pro subs(thanks to the dual horn subs). I had 4 pro subs and now 8 DIY sealed subs for the comparison.

this is an absolutely awesome analysis. thanks!


is it possible the svs with its heavy moving mass was causing its cabinet to resonate and in turn causing your entire housing structure to resonate? kind of like a jack hammer pounding on the structure...i could see how that could be perceived as much deeper, more powerful, bass even though the sound pressure in the air was the same or less.


do you have a link to the pro subs that you were using?
 
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