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2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.1; in a small room - what to do?

9256 Views 239 Replies 24 Participants Last post by  PULLIAMM
what is the best set up for a small room: 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.1, 5.0, 5.1?


I think over 5.1 would be overkill; so I have not listed anything further.


Let's say that your time is equally divided between music and video - both are equally important. The room is a smallish living room - where people actually live in addition to the av set up.


I am thinking to stick with a nice 4.0 rig. Good main speakers for the tunes and some sourround for the movies. Need not go any further. A friend has gone with a simple 3.0 system and feels happy as heck.


A sub may not be necessary given the size of the room and the lack of space to put it anywhere.


Thoughts and experiences? Which way to go?
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4.1= the best way to go for me.


or 0.0 if your using those B&W's : P


Some of the top reviewers say they prefer not to have a center for more spacial nuances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHT4LIFE
Some of the top reviewers say they prefer not to have a center for more spacial nuances.
Sure. Mixing the center signal into the L/R channels makes for a less determinate and accurate presentation. Appeals to some. :p


Kal
Why do you think 5.1 would be overkill? (Just trying to understand your reasoning / limitations/ wishes / preferences.)


You need to understand what you're missing if you do less than 5.1, and decide if that's a big deal for you or not.

The ".1" sub

If you get relatively small speakers (likely, given your living room scenario), as in, not big floor standing towers that can produce some bass, you'd more than likely really be robbing yourself from good sound if you don't do a sub. It'd be kinda like not having a tweeter. A sub is not just to produce "boom" and explosions. It is supposed to produce the lower end of the range of the sound, just like a tweeter is supposed to produce the upper range of the sound.


You either need main speakers (left & right front at least) that can produce good bass on their own (i would recommend down into at least the 40Hz, preferably into the 30hz region) or you need a sub. Speakers that can produce good bass are usually on the larger size, up to big floorstanding speakers. A sub is beneficial for those situations where you cannot or don't want to place big main speakers in your decor. A sub allows you to have small main speakers, while the sub can be hidden in a corner somewhere. So decor-wise, a sub may actually be better sometimes, since it allows you to have smaller main speakers while still enjoying good sound. This is true even for a 2 speaker setup.

Center channel (3.x, 5.x and above)

If you don't use a center channel, your 2 front speakers are supposed to create a good enough stereo image that the stuff that's supposed to be in the middle truly sounds as if it's coming from the middle. For movies this is fairly important. If you sit in a limited number of seating positions that are all more or less around the cetner line axis, you will probably be OK without a center channel. If you have seating locations off to the side, closer to the front left & right speakers than to the center line, the stuff that's supposed to come from the middle will likely sound as if it comes from the speaker you're closest to. This may or may not be unacceptable to you. In that case, you'd probably benefit from using a center channel.

Surround (4.x and above)

If you enjoy movies, i would recommend you attempt to set up for surround sound. It'll add to the enjoyment of movies if done right. Surround is often used for ambience sounds (traffic in cities, animals in jungles, weather etc). In more movies nowadays it's also used to add a little extra action going on around you. With sci-fi movies for example, ships will fly by behind you or fly into view from behind / beside you to the screen. It'll make you feel like you're more "experiencing" the movie vs just merely "watching" the movie.


More surround speakers will help in creating a more enveloping and more accurate sound placement of surround sounds. This is not necessary, but it is enjoyable if you have the room for it. In general it'll simply help wrap you in sound more completely than less speakers are capable of doing.


The placement of surround speakers is somewhat critical. Therefore sometimes it's actually easier to place more surround speakers (6.x or 7.x). This depends on the layout of the room. If you do 4.x or 5.x, the surround speakers should ideally be placed around an "ideal" location relatively to the listening positions and other speakers. If your room doesn't allow for that placement, you may end up not being able to get the most out of your surround experience if you stick to "just" 2 surround speakers. In that case, it may be that your room's layout simply is more suited for a 6.x or 7.x setup in regards to placement of the surround speakers.


Hope that helped some :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson
Sure. Mixing the center signal into the L/R channels makes for a less determinate and accurate presentation. Appeals to some. :p


Kal
Just telling what I read from a few of your competitor's over at TAS a few years back.


I think as long as you get exact speakers in the front instead of the so-called centers they sell for more cash then its better,sure.


.Any chance of you reviewing the NHT Three's? I would like tyo know your professional opinion of them.
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I think 5.1 would be best. You could get small speakers all the way around with a small-medium sub.
The only problem you'll have with 5.1 in a small room is that the "sweet spot" will be really small. Of course, with 4.0 or 4.1 this problem is even worse. How many people, i.e., listening positions, will this small room contain?


Craig
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHT4LIFE
Just telling what I read from a few of your competitor's over at TAS a few years back.
Well, you can't believe everything you read. :cool:

Quote:
I think as long as you get exact speakers in the front instead of the so-called centers they sell for more cash then its better,sure.
Agreeed/

Quote:
Any chance of you reviewing the NHT Three's? I would like tyo know your professional opinion of them.
Not likely. Not my type of product. My wife and I prefer bigger speakers. I make (temporary) exceptions for really innovative designs, like the Xd.


Kal
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Gertjan


Some nice thoughts, thanks...I'll try to respond with what I'm thinking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan
Why do you think 5.1 would be overkill?
I think I said, over 5.1 would be overkill - so, 5.1 would be possible. I would not have the wall space to throw more speakers up than just two surrounds; space limitations. TV, AVR and main spaekers against front wall. 4 person sofa against back wall. Space between walls, about 10 feet. Large window on the right wall. Open space and dinning area to the left. Can you picture it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan
The ".1" sub

If you get relatively small speakers (likely, given your living room scenario), as in, not big floor standing towers that can produce some bass, you'd more than likely really be robbing yourself from good sound if you don't do a sub. It'd be kinda like not having a tweeter. A sub is not just to produce "boom" and explosions. It is supposed to produce the lower end of the range of the sound, just like a tweeter is supposed to produce the upper range of the sound.


You either need main speakers (left & right front at least) that can produce good bass on their own (i would recommend down into at least the 40Hz, preferably into the 30hz region) or you need a sub. Speakers that can produce good bass are usually on the larger size, up to big floorstanding speakers. A sub is beneficial for those situations where you cannot or don't want to place big main speakers in your decor. A sub allows you to have small main speakers, while the sub can be hidden in a corner somewhere. So decor-wise, a sub may actually be better sometimes, since it allows you to have smaller main speakers while still enjoying good sound. This is true even for a 2 speaker setup.
Yes, I understand. The sub is important as with all the speakers. But it can be left out, especially in a smallish space possibly. The speakers that i am thinkin of are the NHT Classic 3s; it does not really matter which brand, but the key is getting down to the low frequencies as you mention. I'm not sure how low the 3s go; It might be low enough for me. And then again, maybe adding a nice sub would make things even better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan
Center channel (3.x, 5.x and above)

If you don't use a center channel, your 2 front speakers are supposed to create a good enough stereo image that the stuff that's supposed to be in the middle truly sounds as if it's coming from the middle. For movies this is fairly important. If you sit in a limited number of seating positions that are all more or less around the cetner line axis, you will probably be OK without a center channel. If you have seating locations off to the side, closer to the front left & right speakers than to the center line, the stuff that's supposed to come from the middle will likely sound as if it comes from the speaker you're closest to. This may or may not be unacceptable to you. In that case, you'd probably benefit from using a center channel.
As I mentioned the rough layout above, you can imagine that the center seating position is a very small area. If seated at one end or the other of the sofa, you would be almost directly in front of a L or R main speaker. A problem, but would it be overkill to throw a center along the front stage of roughly 10 feet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertjan
Surround (4.x and above)

If you enjoy movies, i would recommend you attempt to set up for surround sound. It'll add to the enjoyment of movies if done right. Surround is often used for ambience sounds (traffic in cities, animals in jungles, weather etc). In more movies nowadays it's also used to add a little extra action going on around you. With sci-fi movies for example, ships will fly by behind you or fly into view from behind / beside you to the screen. It'll make you feel like you're more "experiencing" the movie vs just merely "watching" the movie.


More surround speakers will help in creating a more enveloping and more accurate sound placement of surround sounds. This is not necessary, but it is enjoyable if you have the room for it. In general it'll simply help wrap you in sound more completely than less speakers are capable of doing.


The placement of surround speakers is somewhat critical. Therefore sometimes it's actually easier to place more surround speakers (6.x or 7.x). This depends on the layout of the room. If you do 4.x or 5.x, the surround speakers should ideally be placed around an "ideal" location relatively to the listening positions and other speakers. If your room doesn't allow for that placement, you may end up not being able to get the most out of your surround experience if you stick to "just" 2 surround speakers. In that case, it may be that your room's layout simply is more suited for a 6.x or 7.x setup in regards to placement of the surround speakers.


Hope that helped some :)
The placement of two surround back speakers will be directly above the sofa (about 8-9 feet above the floor), angled down and pointed to the center seating position. Not much more wall area to work with. No possible space on the left and right sides of the floor area.


Tahnks again...Your thoughts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john
The only problem you'll have with 5.1 in a small room is that the "sweet spot" will be really small. Of course, with 4.0 or 4.1 this problem is even worse. How many people, i.e., listening positions, will this small room contain?


Craig
See post number 9 just above for size and listening positions.



How/why would 4.0/4.1 make the "sweet spot" problem worse than with 5.0/5.1?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHT4LIFE
I think as long as you get exact speakers in the front instead of the so-called centers they sell for more cash then its better,sure.
what do you mean by "exact" speakers? Are your beloved NHT 3s exact?


You have 4.1 - four 3s or two 3s and two 2s / zeros or.....What is the set up?


I'm thinking of two NHT 3s and two NHT zeros. Sorry, not B&W....
I would be biased towards stereo (with or without subwoofer), and 5.1. Maybe a 3.1 compromise. I would do 3.1 before I did 4-channel which seems pretty pointless.
So, it might be a stepping stone kinda thing...Get 2.0, go on to 3.1, then go on to 5.1 and skip the 3.0 and 4.0 stages?
Quote:
Originally Posted by el stumbo
what do you mean by "exact" speakers? Are your beloved NHT 3s exact?


You have 4.1 - four 3s or two 3s and two 2s / zeros or.....What is the set up?


I'm thinking of two NHT 3s and two NHT zeros. Sorry, not B&W....
I mean screw the 3C or the 2C or any other center that isnt the exact same as the L/R speakers.My setup for now is the NHT Three's (2) in front,and my SB-2's in the rear.If your going to be using your setup for any dvd-audio or sacd I would get all matching but if you cant afford them then I think your 3 and AZ

combo will work nicely.Enjoy!!



Peace & Love
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I would do 3.1 before I did 4-channel which seems pretty pointless.


Unless of course the point is you have a budget and you want "surround sound".... :p
Since I usually watch movies alone, I don't have to worry about sitting outside the "sweet spot". With this in mind, I recently went from 5.1 to 4.0 and consider it an improvement. Pans are more seamless than they could be with any center, no matter how well matched. Also,my Def Tech mains are bass beasts and sound cleaner than my (cheap) sub, plus the bass is perfectly integrated and in stereo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el stumbo
How/why would 4.0/4.1 make the "sweet spot" problem worse than with 5.0/5.1?
Without a center to "anchor" the dialogue and other sounds in the middle, you depend on the "phantom center" which mixes the CC information into the L/R's. Whenever you move off center, the sonic image moves to the side you've moved to. If you move left, the dialogue will sounds like it's originating from the left speaker, not the middle of the screen.


Craig
Absolutamente!
Even for listeners always sitting in the sweet spot, the centre speaker still has an advantage. Most of the dialogue in movies and vocals in music ends up imaging in the centre of the front soundstage.


The human voice is not a dual-mono, phantom-imaged, comb-filtering source. In real life, we always hear it as a mono point source when talking to someone. So why reproduce it through two speakers when we never, ever, hear it that way in reality?


Personally, I wouldn't consider watching movies or listening to music without a centre speaker.


Sanjay
Sanjay,


We could take this logic, which makes sense and all, and go one step further. Drop the L/R mains and just use a center for every thing up front. Since we listen to things that way in life, why not in our recorded life as well?


Food for thought
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