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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you people used or recommend for music, advantage and disadvantage if any: a 2.0 system with full range speakers or 2.1 system with a sub for those low frequencies considering that a sub is more suitable for it?
 

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Both can be acceptable and/or pleasurable.
Both may have advantages and/or disadvantages.

What speakers?
What subwoofer?
What room dimensions?
What amp/power?
What listening levels?
And... what type of music genre?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well I’m debating between full range Reaction Audio CX-15T (Frequency Response - 35-18,000 hz +/- 3 db) or PSA MTM 210 (Frequency Response = 70Hz - 18kHz). The speakers will run with PSA sub XV15se (21Hz-200Hz +/-3dB (15Hz-18Hz typical in-room extension)). Room is 18x23, amp Marantz SR7007 (125 watts), listening levels varies from medium to loud and music is basically rock and blues. I used the system 75% 2 channel music and about 25% movies. I want to upgrade my actual speakers with one of the above mentioned, first the front 3 and later the surrounds.
 

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MY personal opinion is...
For movies (5.1), it's a "must have". For music (2.0), I have used either at times. Typically, at low to moderate levels, I leave the sub "on". When I really crank up the volume, I turn the sub "off". I say get the sub. ;)

(I'm sure someone will chime in stating to never use a sub with "full range" speakers in a "stereo only" system.)
 
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I used to play music with my towers only, but over the past couple of years I've run the speakers (set to "small") w/ subs for music as well as movies. In my larger space (~15' x 30' x 7.5') I find that the subs provide better / more satisfying bottom end than do the speakers on their own.


I'd go with the PSA speakers paired with the PSA sub.
 

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Depends on

a) Do you have a good sub
b) Size of room
c) Music only or music + movies?
d) Budget. Decent towers are expensive, compared to standmounts of similar HF & MF quality

I have two systems, a hifi and home cinema, both have floorstanders and sub. Also have a few standmount speakers.

Nothing is stopping you with towers in a home cinema and music system, with a sub, nor is standmounts with sub for music & movies. But having floorstanders allows you to set it to pure direct mode which means subwoofer isn't active. That will provide enough bass. Wheras with standmounts you may want a subwoofer, unless you have a small room.
 

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low frequencies considering that a sub is more suitable for it?
If you have capable enough floorstanders (the biggest ones I have go down to 35hz +/-2dB) you don't need a subwoofer- for a music only system.

For movies I'd still cross them higher though as LF demands are much higher, plus the sub I have is SBU13.

Ie for music pure direct or maybe L/R 40hz with sub 40hz, and for movies L/R 70hz with sub 70hz
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you fellows, I’m leaning toward the PSA speakers and Sub. The sub should handle the lows pretty good and that will leave the speakers for the mids and highs after finding the right crossover.
I appreciated all responds!!!!!!
 

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Also another thing, whether your pre-amp is a 2 channel pre, or a home theatre, which means if it's a hifi, you send full range to sub AND speakers, so you need to use subs own crossover, matching it with L/R and room bass gain, or your use the AVR bass management. Or if a 2 channel system you have a high pass, either in a subwoofer or a active high pass ie Outlaw ICBM-1 (I have one of these)

I have found blending a sub into a hifi difficult as sending full range to sub and speakers, with AV system much easier to integrate (and so is when using high pass)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Fatbottom, thank you. Your observations make me think again. It seems that full range floorstanders are more versatile in the sense that it can be used with or without a sub. The ones that I’m looking too are from Reaction Audio CX-15T which can go as low as to 35hz. Good thing that I’m in the research stage and haven’t taken the plum yet.
 

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These are the big floorstanders, new price $3500. Decent floorstanders cost a lot of money.

Low end floortanders aren't great.

Also floorstanders are more efficient, so they need less power. Also you'll find they play louder, with higher maximum dB, and being they have multiple drivers, then each driver will have lower distortion, playing some dB if it were a standmount.

I also have the standmount version of these speakers. They're great speakers too.
 

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Well I’m debating between full range Reaction Audio CX-15T
Large coaxes will always benefit form a good, well integrated sub (or better yet 2 to 4 of them). I have a lot of experience doing this with Tannoys and other large format coaxes. Crossing them at say 80Hz will considerably reduce excursion of the 15" especially at high levels. Considering this is the waveguide for the HF driver, it needs to move as little as possible so as much LF energy as possible needs to be crossed to the sub.

Even better, is a good 15 or 18 actively crossed in at 250Hz or so, then crossed to some great subs, but I'm not seriously expecting you to go that route.
 

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Also another thing, whether your pre-amp is a 2 channel pre, or a home theatre, which means if it's a hifi, you send full range to sub AND speakers, so you need to use subs own crossover, matching it with L/R and room bass gain, or your use the AVR bass management. Or if a 2 channel system you have a high pass, either in a subwoofer or a active high pass ie Outlaw ICBM-1 (I have one of these)

I have found blending a sub into a hifi difficult as sending full range to sub and speakers, with AV system much easier to integrate (and so is when using high pass)
Sending LF content to both mains and subs is the primary way to screw up good integration and does nothing to reduce distortion in the mains. All you need to add the the basic MiniDSP to do the xover and any EQ. About $120 plus a measurement mic, or maybe someone local will have one they can lend.
 

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Sending LF content to both mains and subs is the primary way to screw up good integration and does nothing to reduce distortion in the mains. All you need to add the the basic MiniDSP to do the xover and any EQ. About $120 plus a measurement mic, or maybe someone local will have one they can lend.
Stereo pre-amps/integrateds don't have bass management, so you are sending full range to speakers and subwoofer (then use crossover in your sub) ie

ie this amp
http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?lang=En&Tab2=8200A

I'm aware full range signal does not help with the amp, however in hifi it's been done like that for years. There is no bass management.

Unless you put high pass between pre and power.
EQ in a hifi??
 

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Stereo pre-amps/integrateds don't have bass management, so you are sending full range to speakers and subwoofer (then use crossover in your sub) ie

ie this amp
http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?lang=En&Tab2=8200A

I'm aware full range signal does not help with the amp, however in hifi it's been done like that for years. There is no bass management.
Just another thing audiophiles have been doing wrong for ages.

Unless you put high pass between pre and power.
Which I've been doing for years. Makes a huge difference. Rod Elliott has kindly written a couple of excellent articles on the subject which save me typing it again. Here and here. The first is probably of most interest to the OP.
Not adding a high pass and positioning the subs where they work best in the room, as well as some minor EQing is by far the reason that many 2ch only guys don't like subs. This is based upon my experience of designing sound systems, electrical and acoustic theory and practice and going to set up other people's systems. Overlapping LF is poor design.

EQ in a hifi??
Not having EQ, especially when it's in the DSP is far more a religious doctrine than an engineering one. It can add great benefit if implemented well.

For the OP (JoeNDT), I've just noticed an earlier post of mine missing that answers your question in post 1. I have intermittent coverage where I am today, so I'll do it again when I get back onto a landline.
 

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That's why myself and many others use AVRs for 2-channel music playback as well. Give me bass management over simple old 2ch stereo preamps any day.
Or get speakers that do not need a sub to accompany them. I've had 2.1 for music for many years - until receiving my Salk SongTowers - now I play in 2.0. No need for bass management - the speakers do that automatically. I'm very impressed with how they sound. Bass response is excellent unless you're a bass head.
 

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Or get speakers that do not need a sub to accompany them. I've had 2.1 for music for many years - until receiving my Salk SongTowers - now I play in 2.0. No need for bass management - the speakers do that automatically. I'm very impressed with how they sound. Bass response is excellent unless you're a bass head.
A 2-way MTM with 5" drivers...??


Could you show a frequency response measurement of your room with this alleged excellent bass response?


And just about all 2-ways benefit from a high pass filter getting the lowest frequencies off them.
 

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A 2-way MTM with 5" drivers...??


Could you show a frequency response measurement of your room with this alleged excellent bass response?


And just about all 2-ways benefit from a high pass filter getting the lowest frequencies off them.
Yes, a two way MTM design with a pair of 5" drivers in each tower. I had the same response as you the first time I read someone making the claim that the SongTowers had decent bass right down to 42hz. After reading a lot of reviews over the years I decided to try a pair. You can take my word on it or not - up to you - but from what I'm hearing coming from those 5" drivers is beautiful detailed music across the entire sound spectrum. I don't have any frequency graphs to post and I have no interest in doing one. While they aren't the 'best' speaker you can buy they are IMO the best you can buy for $2k. And they are furniture grade finish too.
 
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