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Discussion Starter #1
I'll start out by stating, I'd rate myself a super novice on this stuff.


I have a living room that opens pretty much to rest of the house on one side. Blue are windows, Grey is fireplace, Black is TV, Red is sofas, Green are Hsu speakers. Orange is just measurements.



Ceiling is 9'


Here some pics of the place.



This is a pic if you are standing next to tv and looking into open area.



This is a pic from kitchen looking to TV room. TV would be on the back left.



Here is a picture looking straight on at TV. I will be wall mounting the TV to keep kids away a little better and I just like it on the wall.



So, I'm thinking 2.1 or 3.1.


I will be wall mounting the stereo speakers with the recommended AM-40 Side Clamping Speaker Wall Mount Bracket. If I get the center speaker, it'll go on the cabinet.


I do NOT want super bass system, but I'm going with the theory of buying a little more than needed and turn the sub down. (I have two younger kids, so I won't be able to crank it for some time).


Also, I'm not a super loud listener. I just like nicer looking and nice sounding things. Not loud (I know, not typical). I don't know what Amp to get yet. I would like something with 4k passthrough (for the future) and wireless so I can stream music.


This setup will be 95% TV/Movies, 5% music.


So,

I don't have a budget, but want to be practical. I'm not a super high end enthusiast, just the kind of guy that likes to buy it once and buy it right.

Any input on A/V Receiver (5.1 is the most I'll ever do)? Thinking around $250 - $700

Basically are your thoughts on a Hsu vtf3 mk4 for this? Is the sub enough/too much?

Anything else from the experts?
 

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With that beautiful hardwood floor, you are going to get sound bouncing back and forth between the floor and the ceiling.  I recommend buying a nice, thick rug for the floor.  I like "oriental" rugs, but the pattern does not matter for this.  If you allow sound to bounce around too much, nothing will sound good, and dialog will be harder to understand than it needs to be.

 

You will also want to close the curtains, both for sound and for picture.  Otherwise, you will likely get too much light on the screen, and have sound bouncing off of all that glass.

 

The best room for a home theater has no windows.  That is why real theaters do not have windows.

 

 

For your receiver budget, this is what I would get:

 

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXA1020/Yamaha-AVENTAGE-RX-A1020.html

 

It is a closeout on last year's model, and it is a very good receiver.

 

Of course, if you meant that that was your total budget, instead of just the receiver, you will need to go with something much inferior to it.  But then you could not afford the subwoofer you mention if that is your total budget.

 

 

As for the Hsu subwoofer, no one can really complain about it for your choice.  I personally would go with an SVS (the PC12-NSD would be slightly cheaper, once you add in shipping for the Hsu), but Hsu is a fine choice, so if that is what you want, you should get it.

 

 

I would look for bookshelf speakers that have a -3dB point in the bass of about 60 Hz or lower, so you can use the THX recommended crossover point of 80 Hz for the subwoofer.  What is your budget for speakers?

 

 

Really, it is better to say what the total budget is, and then you can get recommendations from people with different ideas about how to optimize the performance.  And as for the receiver, if you have any other requirements about it, you should tell people, so that they can take it into consideration.  Naturally, the more limited the budget, the more compromises that will be made.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
First off, thanks for the reply!



I understand the room is not even close to optimal for a HT. Perhaps I'm over-killing this.


I'm coming from my old setup of a Bose 2.1 system. It was not fulfilling.


Total budget....

Let's see, Hsu 3.1 system with vtf 3 mk4 is ~$1300 (2 stereo, 1 center, 12" powered sub)

Receiver....up to $700 I guess

not including wiring.....

TV is already done.


So let's give this some room in the budget and say $2500 or less for Speakers, Subs and Receiver.


I'd love to spend less. As I mentioned, I'm not a super audiophile. I like it to be pleasing to look at and sound great to me (what you guys would probable call ok).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24418007


First off, thanks for the reply!



I understand the room is not even close to optimal for a HT. Perhaps I'm over-killing this.


I'm coming from my old setup of a Bose 2.1 system. It was not full filling.


Total budget....

Let's see, Hsu 3.1 system with vtf 3 mk4 is ~$1300 (2 stereo, 1 center, 12" powered sub)

Receiver....up to $700 I guess

not including wiring.....

TV is already done.


So let's give this some room in the budget and say $2500 or less for Speakers, Subs and Receiver.


I'd love to spend less. As I mentioned, I'm not a super audiophile. I like it to be pleasing to look at and sound great to me (what you guys would probable call ok).
There is no such thing as over kill here



Any features you feel are a must for your receiver. With a budget of $700 you can get a fairly decent new receiver for that kind of money.


One receiver worth checking out is the Denon AVR-1713 with Audyssey MultiEQ XT its got the highest room calibration software of any receiver in its price range.
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24418037


There is no such thing as over kill here



Any features you feel are a must for your receiver. With a budget of $700 you can get a fairly decent new receiver for that kind of money.


One receiver worth checking out is the Denon AVR-1713 with Audyssey MultiEQ XT its got the highest room calibration software of any receiver in its price range.

Thanks for the recommendation. Denon seems to be uber popular here and that one is under budget....a plus. Doesn't have 4k pass through though. I'm already dreaming of a 4k TV (and content).


My friend is a Marantz fiend and says I must but that.


What I find hard about the entire process is that I can't listen to most of the items this forum recommends. They are all online dealers only. About all I can do is go to Best Buy. They keep pushing Def Tech Towers on me. They are nice, but sounded kinda muffled to me. I don't have a good ear.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...s-general-advice-for-noob/0_100#post_24418007


First off, thanks for the reply!



I understand the room is not even close to optimal for a HT. Perhaps I'm over-killing this.


I'm coming from my old setup of a Bose 2.1 system. It was not fulfilling.


Total budget....

Let's see, Hsu 3.1 system with vtf 3 mk4 is ~$1300 (2 stereo, 1 center, 12" powered sub)

Receiver....up to $700 I guess

not including wiring.....

TV is already done.


So let's give this some room in the budget and say $2500 or less for Speakers, Subs and Receiver.


I'd love to spend less. As I mentioned, I'm not a super audiophile. I like it to be pleasing to look at and sound great to me (what you guys would probable call ok).
 

Okay.  I have not heard the Hsu speakers, and have no idea how they compare with others.  Thus, I cannot say if you should or should not buy them.  I did not understand that that was what you meant in the opening post, that you were going with a Hsu package deal of speakers and subwoofer.

 

Regarding another question in your opening post, there is no such thing as too much in a subwoofer.  All powered subwoofers have level controls, and modern surround receivers have adjustments for setting the output level to the subwoofer, so if it is more capable than it needs to be, it will never be a problem, because the level can just be set lower.  You only run into problems with a subwoofer that is not good enough.

 

If you buy that Hsu system, the Yamaha receiver I recommended would be fine.  It is likely that it is better than you need.  But right now, it is less expensive than a step or two down for current models, since it is a closeout of last year's product.  So you would have to want to step down several levels for it to be a good idea to go with something less than it.  But you could get something that you might like close to the bottom of your budget, so you might want to download the manual for the Yamaha (which you can do at the Crutchfield site here ), and then consider if you want the extra features it offers over some less expensive model that you may consider (and you will want to download its manual, whatever it is, and see what it offers before you decide one way or another).
 

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I think you'd be quite happy with the HSU hybrid 3.1. THe HSU speakers are generally well liked especially for the price. The sub is one of the most powerful 12" subs around. It will have more output than the SVS PB12NSD. The SVS probably has a flatter response, though in your case with your large room I'd go for the extra output.


The Yamaha 1020 is a really nice AVR. A good deal at $700.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Again, thanks for replies.


All the AVR's recommended so far are 3D pass through. What about 4K pass through? I want to get a 4K TV in a year or so. I'd rather not get a new AVR then too.


thoughts?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24418227


Again, thanks for replies.


All the AVR's recommended so far are 3D pass through. What about 4K pass through? I want to get a 4K TV in a year or so. I'd rather not get a new AVR then too.


thoughts?
There are receivers that offer 4k pass through.

Denon AVR-e400

Onkyo TX-NR626

Sony STR-DN1040

Pioneer VSX-1123-K


Its fairly a new concept I think so receivers have just started to providing 4k passthrough



As for demoing speakers from internet retailers, some internet direct speaker companys like HTD, SVS, and Ascend Acoustics (to name a few) offer in home trial periods so you can demo the speakers in your room and return them for a refund of purchase price if you don't like that
 

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Nice subwoofer choice! I love my VTF3s. I wouldn't worry about 4k until receivers start implementing HDMI 2.0 , but HDMI 2.0 is almost right around the corner. I would just get a cheap or refurbished something to hold you over until you get a beefy HDMI 2.0 receiver with true, full 4k support, they should start coming out later this year and will be a considerable step up in technology. If it were me, I would even wait a bit longer for 2.0 implementation to mature. Here is a thread that explains the issues. . My advice is not to worry about 4k for the moment.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...s-general-advice-for-noob/0_100#post_24418227


Again, thanks for replies.


All the AVR's recommended so far are 3D pass through. What about 4K pass through? I want to get a 4K TV in a year or so. I'd rather not get a new AVR then too.


thoughts?
 

The Yamaha I recommended not only has 4k pass-through, it even has 4k upscaling:

 

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a1020_black_u/?tab=PD514488

 

But if you are very concerned about new formats of 4k, you can wait until HDMI 2.0 receivers come out.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24418460


Nice subwoofer choice! I love my VTF3s. I wouldn't worry about 4k until receivers start implementing HDMI 2.0 , but HDMI 2.0 is almost right around the corner. I would just get a cheap or refurbished something to hold you over until you get a beefy HDMI 2.0 receiver with true, full 4k support, they should start coming out later this year and will be a considerable step up in technology. If it were me, I would even wait a bit longer for 2.0 implementation to mature. Here is a thread that explains the issues. . My advice is not to worry about 4k for the moment.

Thanks shadyJ. If I recall about 2 years ago you gave me a fair amount of advice.


I'll read up on the 4K AVR thread. Took a quick look and it looks disappointing.


I wonder if I should just get a very simple AVR for now. Problem with this stuff for me is that it is very overwhelming. I think that was part of the problem last time for me. Seems like so so so many choices and so so so many mistakes to be made by a chump like me.
 

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Discussion Starter #13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24418645


The Yamaha I recommended not only has 4k pass-through, it even has 4k upscaling:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a1020_black_u/?tab=PD514488


But if you are very concerned about new formats of 4k, you can wait until HDMI 2.0 receivers come out.

Thanks Jack. I didn't see the 4k format on the crutchfield page. I'm wondering if this receiver might be too much for me. 110w RMS at 8 ohms seems more than I need. Maybe I don't understand enough, but when I was in car audio at a much younger age, a mid range speaker with 50w was plenty loud.
 

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A simple, cheap AVR for the time being is what I would do. As for car speakers and RMS amplification, remember that you are a lot closer to your car speakers than you will be to your home audio speakers, and a doubling of distance away from the speakers reduces the loudness by 6 dB. It takes four times the amount of amp power to make up for a 6 dB loss. Although the Hsu speakers won't need a lot of juice to get loud, car audio amplification and home audio amplification are not very comparable. You should be fine, even with 50 watt per channel, but if you like to listen at loud volumes, a nice beefy amp down the road may be worth it. By the way, your home looks very nice, although acoustically it looks like it will be quite reflective (ie not good for the sound). Many of the guys here will tell you to put up room treatments, but a lot of room treatments are pretty ugly and not worth messing up such a lovely home. One thing that might not be bad is a heavy rug which would help dampen acoustics, if you can find one that can blend in with the room ("That rug really tied the room together!"). Controlled dispersion speakers like the Hsus might be beneficial as well, as less sound will get knocked around off-axis.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24417948


As for the Hsu subwoofer, no one can really complain about it for your choice.  I personally would go with an SVS (the PC12-NSD would be slightly cheaper, once you add in shipping for the Hsu), but Hsu is a fine choice, so if that is what you want, you should get it.

+1


I, too, am a little bit more of an SVS fan myself. But both are good brands. One advantage you might consider with SVS is that they offer 45 day in home demo--free shipping both ways. So no risk to try them out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24419418


Thanks again for replies. Maybe I'm not ready for this.

I personally think it will be several years before 4K TVs come down and price and before there is any content. I wouldn't worry about the 4K yet myself. By the time 4K becomes reasonably priced, there may be some other new killer audio feature that one would want from the latest receivers that would make it worth upgrading then.


As far as the wattage of the receiver, get the one with the features you want. Like you said, you don't need particularly loud volumes, but it doesn't hurt to have it.


A couple of nice features to have are Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume which can help the system sound better at lower volumes--after your kids go to sleep and you have to turn it down
You can find them on Onkyo, Denon, and Marantz receivers.
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24419623



I personally think it will be several years before 4K TVs come down and price and before there is any content. I wouldn't worry about the 4K yet myself. By the time 4K becomes reasonably priced, there may be some other new killer audio feature that one would want from the latest receivers that would make it worth upgrading then.


As far as the wattage of the receiver, get the one with the features you want. Like you said, you don't need particularly loud volumes, but it doesn't hurt to have it.


A couple of nice features to have are Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume which can help the system sound better at lower volumes--after your kids go to sleep and you have to turn it down
You can find them on Onkyo, Denon, and Marantz receivers.

Thanks for the perspective on that. I'll admit, I'm getting overwhelmed. Too many variables.


I did just go to the blue/yellow store.


Listened to Def Tech Towers (8040 i think)

B&W bookshelves and sub

and

Martin Logan and sub


I liked the Martin Logan the best. $900 a pair. Little more than the Hsu I was considering. I really loved the clarity of them over the Def Tech's for sure. The Def Tech's were the loudest but should like it was coming through a pillow to me (really technical, I know, but I don't know all the proper verbiage here).

The B&W were nice, but I like the Martin Logan's more. I never even heard of them before that trip.


I'll admit, I wasn't a huge fan of the sub. Didn't seem very tight. Wonder if that means I want a sealed sub.


I'm not sure if I'll be able to buy speakers without hearing them (aka the Hsu). Hearing the Def Tech's previously, I liked them. Now hearing the Martin's and sub, Def Tech's are out. Plus the Martin's look really good!


I might have to make a new thread I guess. Wonder if there is anything close to Martin Logan Motion 15 5-1/4" 2-way bookshelves that is
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24422060


Thanks for the perspective on that. I'll admit, I'm getting overwhelmed. Too many variables.

If it starts to get overwhelming, ignore us and choose what seems good to you. We can just help you to get a better value, but you've already gotten some good tips that will help you purchase better than you would have before. Don't go without a new setup just because of that

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24422060


Listened to Def Tech Towers (8040 i think)

B&W bookshelves and sub

and

Martin Logan and sub


I liked the Martin Logan the best. $900 a pair. Little more than the Hsu I was considering. I really loved the clarity of them over the Def Tech's for sure. The Def Tech's were the loudest but should like it was coming through a pillow to me (really technical, I know, but I don't know all the proper verbiage here).

The B&W were nice, but I like the Martin Logan's more. I never even heard of them before that trip.


I'll admit, I wasn't a huge fan of the sub. Didn't seem very tight. Wonder if that means I want a sealed sub.


I'm not sure if I'll be able to buy speakers without hearing them (aka the Hsu). Hearing the Def Tech's previously, I liked them. Now hearing the Martin's and sub, Def Tech's are out. Plus the Martin's look really good!


I might have to make a new thread I guess. Wonder if there is anything close to Martin Logan Motion 15 5-1/4" 2-way bookshelves that is
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfer  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24422060


I'm not sure if I'll be able to buy speakers without hearing them (aka the Hsu). Hearing the Def Tech's previously, I liked them. Now hearing the Martin's and sub, Def Tech's are out. Plus the Martin's look really good!


I might have to make a new thread I guess. Wonder if there is anything close to Martin Logan Motion 15 5-1/4" 2-way bookshelves that is

Then Monitor Audio is a good one - and good close-out prices on the RX-Silver

Black is out of stock
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/monitor_special.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1520159/2-1-3-1-setup-hsu-speake...vr-recs-general-advice-for-noob#post_24422175


First, historically, Marantz has often considered to be a little bit better than Denon for receivers, but the differences probably are not worth worrying about. Many of us run Denons. They work well. Get the receiver that has the features you want and don't worry about the brand differences. If the Denon is cheaper, go with that and spend your money on speakers/sub. That's where you'll get the best bang for your buck.


Second, with subs, the Internet direct vendors SVS Audio, Power Sound Audio, HSU Research, Outlaw Audio, and Rythmik Audio provide price/performance values that best subs at BestBuy (and other brick and mortar retailers) costing twice as much MSRP. For example, if you find you like the 10" ported Martin Logan Dynamo 700, the SVS PB-1000 is a much better 10" sub for $500. So you could pick out a sub there, and we could tell what to get instead that would either save you money or give you a much better sub for whatever price BestBuy is quoting you.


Finally, don't have to worry about matching the sub to the speakers. Tell us what your subwoofer budget is, and we can offer you a few suggestions that you could flip a coin over and still do better than what you could get at BestBuy.

Got it on the AVR. I need minimal features really. It is going to be hooked up to TV (95% of its job). Movies, and a little music. Networking, it great, but not required. I don't really know what other features I'd consider. My last AVR didn't even have HDMI.


So are there great independent speaker providers (like the names you mentioned above) that compare with speakers like MartinLogan Motion series or do I really just need to buy a name brand? I'm already finding a deal that is $100 cheaper than best buy online ($800/pair free ship).


Hearing the center channel at Best Buy, it really made a difference. Perhaps I really need to reconsider my entire strategy. I'll tell you, it is brutal listening to my TV speakers. This is even coming from a Bose 2.1 system. The speakers on the Samsung TV just make me not want to watch a movie almost.
 
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