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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Hello,

 

System specs:

TV: Panasonic Viera TC-P54VT25

Receiver: Onkyo HT-RC270 7.1 ch rated at 100w x 2

Fronts: Kef q900's

Center: Athena AS-C1

Surround: Polk Audio M10

Subwoofer: Klipsche Sub10 (I think, could be a 12, doesn't say on the back plate and i'm lazy)

 

I recently picked up a new set of front speakers: Kef q900's and have themy bi-amped and hopefully receiving 100w (or whatever the receiver truly does).    I'm really happy with how they sound and how they're performing in a 2.1 setup.

 

When I switch to a 5.1 source, everything falls apart.  I struggle to blend the sub with everything else and it feels like there is a lot of lack, especially in the low end.  Just a lack of power in the bass and fullness.

 

I've recently convinced myself that this is likely due to a lack of power to the speakers.  This is based on close to nothing as I'm far from an expert.  Sure the speakers are getting 100ish watts in a 2 channel, but across 5, I assume this is much less and the cause of my issue?  Presumably I need to invest in a dedicated amp that.  Something that does  200w per channel across 3 or 5 channels would make a huge improvement?  Probably have to be a little careful sending that to the center/rears, but that's likely a better issue to have.

 

Any thoughts one way or another from the more experienced folks?

 

(I'm kinda excited to finally have sorted out this issue as I've always sort of felt this way, but never realized it was power.  It's not great timing, given that I just spent $1400 on new speakers and now the amp I initially had in mind is about $1100.  While I'd be stoked to do it, I'm not sure who's gonna pay for it all.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottatah  /t/1501749/2-1-sounds-great-5-1-is-lacking-lack-of-power#post_23995930


Hello,


System specs:


TV: Panasonic Viera TC-P54VT25


Receiver: Onkyo HT-RC270 7.1 ch rated at 100w x 2


Fronts: Kef q900's

Very nice.
Quote:
Center: Athena AS-C1

Potential problem - center channel speaker mismatched with L & R. Projected problem symptomology - inability to integrate system - sound falls apart when center channel enabled. Due to dominant role of center channel this mismatching could be quite problematical.

Quote:
Surround: Polk Audio M10

Potential problem - surround channel speaker mismatched with L & R. Projected problem symptomology - inability to integrate system - sound falls apart when surround channels enabled. Due to less important role of surround channels this mismatching might be problematical.

Quote:
Subwoofer: Klipsche Sub10 (I think, could be a 12, doesn't say on the back plate and i'm lazy)


Potential problem - subwooffer channel speaker underperforms L * R speakers. Projected problem symptomology - inability to integrate system - sound falls apart when subwooferl enabled. Due to dominant role of subwoofer this mismatching could be quite problematical.

Quote:
I recently picked up a new set of front speakers: Kef q900's and have themy bi-amped and hopefully receiving 100w (or whatever the receiver truly does).    I'm really happy with how they sound and how they're performing in a 2.1 setup.


The benefits of biamping are minimal.

Quote:
When I switch to a 5.1 source, everything falls apart.  I struggle to blend the sub with everything else and it feels like there is a lot of lack, especially in the low end.  Just a lack of power in the bass and fullness.

This would be a projected outcome for the speakers that you have.

Quote:
I've recently convinced myself that this is likely due to a lack of power to the speakers.  This is based on close to nothing as I'm far from an expert.

Not so much.


The mismatching of the center channel speaker and the minimal nature of the subwoofer are probably far more problematical.


You didn't say how you have the speakers set as far as large and small goes.


Your AVR has Audyssey Multieq. Have you tried it? It might help you with the mismatched center channel speaker, some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Thanks for the quick reply!

 

Quote:
The mismatching of the center channel speaker and the minimal nature of the subwoofer are probably far more problematical.
While I had thoughts of upgrading the center to match the Kef's, their center literally will not fit in my TV stand (and I didn't entirely have the money for it).  .I probably should have mentioned that I upgraded from Athena AS-F2 fronts where I had the same problem, though I wasn't as impressed with their sound in 2.1.  I also didn't have the speakers bi-amped and while I'm not really convinced it helps much, it can't hurt.

 

What exactly do you mean by the minimal nature of the subwoofer?
Quote:
You didn't say how you have the speakers set as far as large and small goes.
 
Your AVR has Audyssey Multieq. Have you tried it? It might help you with the mismatched center channel speaker, some.
I have used the used the Audessey EQ many times over and configured the settings from there to my liking (or as close as I can get).  

Without getting into distances and levels:

Fronts: Full band (also played with it at 80 and the settings in between: 40, 50, 60, 70)

Center: 80hz

Surround: 80hz

Subwoofer: I don't have any control of the crossover via the AVR, but I've played between with setting it everywhere from 80 to 120hz. 

 
Quote:
Potential problem - subwooffer channel speaker underperforms L * R speakers. Projected problem symptomology - inability to integrate system - sound falls apart when subwooferl enabled. Due to dominant role of subwoofer this mismatching could be quite problematical.
 

Again, I do want to clarify that in 2.1 (fronts and sub) things sound nothing short of fantastic.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottatah  /t/1501749/2-1-sounds-great-5-1-is-lacking-lack-of-power#post_23996061

Quote:
The mismatching of the center channel speaker and the minimal nature of the subwoofer are probably far more problematical.
While I had thoughts of upgrading the center to match the Kef's, their center literally will not fit in my TV stand (and I didn't entirely have the money for it).  .I probably should have mentioned that I upgraded from Athena AS-F2 fronts where I had the same problem, though I wasn't as impressed with their sound in 2.1.  I also didn't have the speakers bi-amped and while I'm not really convinced it helps much, it can't hurt.

Passive bi-amping can't help - its an audiophile myth that it is a big help.
Quote:
What exactly do you mean by the minimal nature of the subwoofer?
Quote:
You didn't say how you have the speakers set as far as large and small goes.

 

Your AVR has Audyssey Multieq. Have you tried it? It might help you with the mismatched center channel speaker, some.
I have used the used the Audessey EQ many times over and configured the settings from there to my liking (or as close as I can get).  

Without getting into distances and levels:

Fronts: Full band (also played with it at 80 and the settings in between: 40, 50, 60, 70)

Center: 80hz

Surround: 80hz

Subwoofer: I don't have any control of the crossover via the AVR, but I've played between with setting it everywhere from 80 to 120hz. 
Quote:
Potential problem - subwooffer channel speaker underperforms L * R speakers. Projected problem symptomology - inability to integrate system - sound falls apart when subwooferl enabled. Due to dominant role of subwoofer this mismatching could be quite problematical.

Again, I do want to clarify that in 2.1 (fronts and sub) things sound nothing short of fantastic.

That's a little surprising given that your L&R speakers each probably have more woofer cone area than your sub. Perhaps the best thing that can be said about your sub is that it doesn't seem to get in the way of the L&Rs.


The pointing finger again points at the center channel speaker... My experience with center channel speakers is very positive, but some of that could be due to the fact that my LCR speakers are all the same - and they are a fairly high performance center channel speaker the Infinity Primus PC351.
 
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