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2-channel advice for a newb

1296 Views 19 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  postrokfan, 
D

Hi all, brand new here and would greatly appreciate some advice. I am basically new to the home audio scene. I am looking to buy a 2.1 or 2.0 system, for a fairly small living room in a fairly small apartment. The reason I only want 2-channel is basically for simplicity, and because I live in a small apartment. Ideally my budget would be 700-800 but I could go up to 1000 if convinced. I am open to buying refurb/used.

 

Now, I currently own a Bose Cinemate II system, so I think the answer to this question is yes, but first of all can a worthwhile replacement be had with my budget?

 

My inputs are Rotel RP-855 TT, HTPC w/ onboard audio & linux (which will be used for gaming & spotify), video game consoles, Comcast cable box.

 

As for features desired, for one thing my listening volume will not be super high. Music (TT and spotify) is a big focus of this system, I mainly listen to EDM. As far as receiver/integrated, my ideal feature list would be digital in (required), phono in, sub out, usb connection to HTPC, WiFi & airplay. So if the only digital in is optical/coax, I would connect my devices by HDMI to the TV and then the TV to the integrated amp by the TV's optical out.

 

My research thus far has led me to the following tentative plan:

 

Pioneer BS-41s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882117406


Dayton Audio SUB-1000 or SUB-800
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0063NU3AA/...I3C3L0GOENLHTE


AudioQuest G-Snake
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006DPQ28/...=I7PN0YFJ3EL6H


Pangea stands
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GLX7S00/...I3JPMOBWC0FZKW

 

As for the receiver/integrated amp, I am considering my options here. This is what I'm looking at:

 

Marantz PM6005 $700

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1J70YP6930&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Receivers-_-9SIA1J70YP6930&ef_id=UvHkFQAABXpjbj4y:20140219045645:s

 

Marantz NR1504 $500

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1J70S50472

 

Teac TEAC NP-H750 $700

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_063NPH750/TEAC-NP-H750.html

 

Teac A-H01 $300

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_063AH01B/TEAC-A-H01-Black.html $300

 

I realize the NP-H750 pretty much has my feature list to a T, but with that or the PM6005 I would need to find them used, considering the overall budget. I am mainly wondering whether out of these 4, there will be noticeable differences in sound quality from one to another. If not, then I would basically decide by price point and whether it has Wifi/airplay, since otherwise they seem to be just about equal (save for usb in).

 

I am aware speakers are the primary consideration for sound quality. Here I am getting seemingly cheap $120 speakers, compared to emphasis within the budget on the receiver/integrated. Perhaps I should go for the $300 Teac, forget about wifi and airplay, and get more expensive speakers?

 

Any other general help would be much appreciated. Thanks
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postrokfan
It would be wise to use most of your budget on a good pair of speakers and pair those with an AVR like the Marantz 1504 you already mentioned or full size refurbished AVR from accessories4less. The Dayton subwoofers are a great value. I've listed some book shelf options below.


Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE, $348

Monitor Audio Silver RX-1, $499 (Audio Advisor)

Arx A1b, $300

KEF Q300, $499 (accessories4less)

Infinity Primus 163, $220 (Amazon)

Wavecrest Audio HV-1, $230

Cambridge S30, $199

JBL Studio 530, $480 (Amazon)
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Thanks for the suggestion, I think I am gonna go with a 5.1 avr for cheaper, denon avr-e300 goes for 240 refurb, and also cheaper cables and maybe used stands locally, and spend more on the speakers and sub. I'll get the wharfedale diamond 10.1 and a nicer sub, any advice on 8" vs 10"? Thanks
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O

Echo that on putting your money into the speakers not the receiver/amp on your budget, and postrokfan has a great list of speaker ideas there. You'll get plenty of DIY speaker-reccs here as well but keeping things low cost and simple, that's a great list to start from.

 

Three other considerations:

 

1. Craigslist receiver deals.

 

Here in Austin, at least, one can pick up all SORTS of good used stereo and AV receivers via Craigslist, which affords you the chance to go make sure they are working etc. This can be a really cost-effective way to get decent power and good components. One of the most common reasons people sell receivers on CL is that they are stuck with a non-HDMI receiver and they want to upgrade to an AVR with HDMI passthru, or maybe better bass management. Or else they are just afflicted with upgradeitis. Since you're going 2.1, hdmi is not an issue. I would definitely scout out the deals and see what you can get for $100 or less. I routinely see perfectly good Onkyos, Yamahas, and Denons being sold for upgrade purposes. These will get you a good 75-100 watts per channel, often with phono in. Often the receivers have good bass management too - but that's not an issue with 2.1, since you can always route your speakers through the subwoofer's bass management filters if you need to. That could save you boo-coo bucks for your inevitable future upgrades.

Even if you don't go the CL route, a new Onkyo or Yammie AVR receiver with adequate power for your room should run you no more than $300-350, tops. Good stereo about $250 as I recall.

 

2. If you try the Pioneers, try the new version - the BS52s, or the equivalent towers. The 41s and 21s were the previous iteration. Best Buy has them and you should take them home for trial - planning on returning them if you're unsure. I own and like the 52s quite a lot - however, given your set up and budget, I'd personally be sprining for a larger sound stage via something like the Ascends, Monitor Audios, or KEF Q300s -- or any number of other excellent brands you'll get reccs for. I own the Ascend CBM-170s and love love love them. The KEFs are on my list to check out. Monitor just makes kick ass speakers overall.

 

3. Look for deals on Ascend Sierra 1's

 

Ascend just in the past 2 weeks came out with an upgraded Sierra 2 selling for $1500. Chances are, some Sierra 1 owners will be putting their speakers up for resale (even tho there's a nice upgrade path from Asecnd). So you might just pick up two of the older Sierra 1s for well within your budget, and those are (by all accounts - I have not heard them) a nice upgrade in soundtage and frequency range over the CBM-170s.

 

4. Finally, plan on spending as much or more time setting up the system - getting the acoustics right in the room (at little or no cost, mind you) and placing the equipment well. It costs $30, but Jim Smith's book "Get Better Sound" will pay for itself in the money it saves you in other / future purchases. There are plenty of other good guides out there - this is just the one I know well. After setting up two home systems with Jim's approach, I realized that the desire to upgrade a component is often just the result of not having maximized what you have to begin with. Your room is as important as any speaker you'll buy, and learning how to adjust your room really enhances the pleasure you'll get from your new set up.

 

ENJOY!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenMindAudio  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24389435

 

...I own and like the 52s quite a lot ...
Click to expand...
I meant the BS22s - never heard the 52s (towers) is a real room. The BS22s are awesome for their size. But they don't throw quite as wide a soundstage as my other, larger bookshelf speakers. I prefer using the BS22s at my computer desk.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodsmack  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24389334

... any advice on 8" vs 10"?
Click to expand...
 

You want 10" at a minimum, 12" if you can find a model in your price range. On your budget (key caveat) I would look at buying two Dayton pre-made 10" or 12" subs - they are affordable, and the double array will help ensure smooth bass in your room. It should work well with your bookshelves. This is just my opinion and others will differ, but I believe on your budget you'll get the smoothest bass by deploying two affordable subs, vs. splurging for one more expensive HSU, SVS, or whatnot that a) will blow the bank, and b) make it cost-prohibitive for you to add a second sub in the future.

 

Note I said on your budget because you can clearly spend a lot more to go about this. If you want to spend more, but not too much more, then starting with the 10" HSUs is a good place, again, anticipating you'll want two subs in your future. If you go the affordable Dayton route, you will always be able to sell or kindly give away the Daytons later, while making a nice starter investment in good sound. Relative power is the big downside of the Dayton subs, but you said you're listening at moderate levels, so I think with two Daytons, you'll be in great shape.

 

And you'll likely find that placing two subs with bookselves is not so hard. In fact, since many times people place them behind or under the bookshelves, it can be easy, if that works out for you. Every room is different.

 

An exception on the single-double route, sticking within your overall budget, might be to do a single DIY kit, like some of the 12" Dayton kits. This could get you more power for your dollar, and adding a second sub would still be affordable down the road.
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postrokfan

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenMindAudio  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24389669


You want 10" at a minimum, 12" if you can find a model in your price range. On your budget (key caveat) I would look at buying two Dayton pre-made 10" or 12" subs - they are affordable, and the double array will help ensure smooth bass in your room. It should work well with your bookshelves. This is just my opinion and others will differ, but I believe on your budget you'll get the smoothest bass by deploying two affordable subs, vs. splurging for one more expensive HSU, SVS, or whatnot that a) will blow the bank, and b) make it cost-prohibitive for you to add a second sub in the future.


Note I said on your budget because you can clearly spend a lot more to go about this. If you want to spend more, but not too much more, then starting with the 10" HSUs is a good place, again, anticipating you'll want two subs in your future. If you go the affordable Dayton route, you will always be able to sell or kindly give away the Daytons later, while making a nice starter investment in good sound. Relative power is the big downside of the Dayton subs, but you said you're listening at moderate levels, so I think with two Daytons, you'll be in great shape.


And you'll likely find that placing two subs with bookselves is not so hard. In fact, since many times people place them behind or under the bookshelves, it can be easy, if that works out for you. Every room is different.


An exception on the single-double route, sticking within your overall budget, might be to do a single DIY kit, like some of the 12" Dayton kits. This could get you more power for your dollar, and adding a second sub would still be affordable down the road.
Click to expand...

+1 Definitely go with at least a 10" if not a 12". HSU and SVS are great options.
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Given his budget I'd be tempted to go subless for a while and get the best pair of speaker I could. Add a sub later when you save up some more.


I like the Ascend suggestion, but I'd be tempted to go subless and stretch my budget for sierra-1. In fact I'd be tempted to blow my budget and go the new Sierra-2 with the ribbon tweeter.
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postrokfan

Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24393000


Given his budget I'd be tempted to go subless for a while and get the best pair of speaker I could. Add a sub later when you save up some more.


I like the Ascend suggestion, but I'd be tempted to go subless and stretch my budget for sierra-1. In fact I'd be tempted to blow my budget and go the new Sierra-2 with the ribbon tweeter.
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea either. The Sierra-2s would definitely be a budget buster. The Sierra-1s are probably within reach for the OP and could be upgraded later of course.
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K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodsmack  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24378170


I am looking to buy a 2.1 or 2.0 system, for a fairly small living room in a fairly small apartment. The reason I only want 2-channel is basically for simplicity, and because I live in a small apartment. Ideally my budget would be 700-800 but I could go up to 1000 if convinced. I am open to buying refurb/used.



Any other general help would be much appreciated. Thanks
Click to expand...

Well, your budget is small, as is your room (though I don't know your exact measurements) so my first question is why a sub? What you'll find is the sub won't just fill in the low end, it will / could overwhelm your lower mids too, no matter what sub you get. IMO subwoofers are great for H/T, but unless you have a large room and listen to bass heavy music, not really useful for two channel.


It's so tough to pick out a 'good system' on any budget, but if you want something you can afford I'd build piece meal. As mentioned, get your speakers first. Get full range towers or at worst a hefty bookshelf that can legitimately play low. Then save up money to get your integrated amp/receiver. If you do go the smaller speaker/sub route, just remember that in a small room the sub will take over unless you keep the volume really low on the sub. And frankly, if you do that, it's a waste of money as most music won't be sending enough 'low' stuff to the sub to be heard at a really low volume. Plus the fact your neighbors would complain if the sub volume was louder. Just my 2 cents - but I have a small 'room' where I have both a full range speaker and bookshelves and a sub and the sound is much better with the full range speakers, bass is just right, not 'bloated' and not overwhelming my mids like what can happen when I use the sub/book shelf combo.


As to why I have both - I'm old and I've accumulated 'stuff'. I can't re-sell it for what it's worth so I use it or store it, I'd rather use it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24398868



ell, your budget is small, as is your room (though I don't know your exact measurements) so my first question is why a sub? ...
Click to expand...
 

Kpt_K has a nice approach here. Many of us will politely disagree with hs critique of subs - a well integrated set of subs will help just about any speaker sound better on music, unless it truly is full range. But casting aside that debate, his point is good in that getting the best speakers now and saving for future buys will do you well.

 

Can you place floorstanders in that space - I forger your dimensions, but ideally you'll be sitting at least 9-10 feet from any floorstanders, and that's the distance from the tweeter. So if the floorstanders' tweeters are already 2 feet from the back wall, this simply may not work in your arrangement.

 

So your plan of getting quality bookshlelves is perhaps a better one -- get the best bookshelves you can, and fill in with 2 good/decent subs. My .02 still.
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I'm liking the subless idea considering it'd be so easy to add one if desired.


The Sierra-1s sound great but it seems there are few opportunities to buy them used, and I think 850 new is too much for my budget.


Denon 1913 currently on CL for 275, only used for couple months...in fact just a few blocks away from me lol. I'm tempted. The guy also has Rotel rsp-1068 originally 1800 asking 250...that would be the non-hdmi, older avr at a steal price option.


Also a denon 2113ci for 350...
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A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodsmack  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24401598


I'm liking the subless idea considering it'd be so easy to add one if desired.


The Sierra-1s sound great but it seems there are few opportunities to buy them used, and I think 850 new is too much for my budget.


Denon 1913 currently on CL for 275, only used for couple months...in fact just a few blocks away from me lol. I'm tempted. The guy also has Rotel rsp-1068 originally 1800 asking 250...that would be the non-hdmi, older avr at a steal price option.


Also a denon 2113ci for 350...
Click to expand...

I don't know where you are, as the prices of audio gear varies a lot from country to country. That said I paid $260 or so for my AVR 1913 refurb, which I would prefer over used, USA prices.
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zieglj01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodsmack  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24401598


I'm liking the subless idea considering it'd be so easy to add one if desired.
Click to expand...

If you are going to save for a sub - then I would look at the Monitor Audio Silver RX-1

that was recommended above - Saturday Audio, has Rosenut and Walnut in stock
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/monitor_special.htm
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Got the denon for 275, brought it home and saw refurb sticker on it. The guy claimed it to be brand new in the ad and when I asked in person if he got it brand new, he said "yes it's absolutely new". This receiver goes for 330 refurb on A4L so at first I was thinking 275 still isn't a bad price for a refurb used for a couple months. But maybe this is a ripoff?
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I have a local seller with some "like new" Bowers and Wilkins 685s for 420 w/ stands included. Would you guys recommend that over the Diamond 10.1s for 350?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodsmack  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24423789


I have a local seller with some "like new" Bowers and Wilkins 685s for 420 w/ stands included. Would you guys recommend that over the Diamond 10.1s for 350?
Click to expand...

Generally the 685s would probably be considered a higher class of speaker, but you could like the Diamonds better. However if you listen to the B&Ws and like them, you should get them rather than gambling on ordering speakers off the Internet that you would have to pay return shipping on.
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postrokfan

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1518656/2-channel-advice-for-a-newb#post_24424947


Generally the 685s would probably be considered a higher class of speaker, but you could like the Diamonds better. However if you listen to the B&Ws and like them, you should get them rather than gambling on ordering speakers off the Internet that you would have to pay return shipping on.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. IMHO, the 685 and Diamond 10.1 are similar in many aspects (laid-back top end) but I would give the edge to the 685. That's a great price too provided they are in excellent condition.
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Thought I might post what I ended up going with in case anyone finds this thread while searching. Basically since I live in the DC area and craigslist is pretty active I went with the best craigslist deals I found for used components. Still keeping with the guidelines of what range of speakers and receiver I wanted. I went with a 2.0 setup, I really think for a small apartment with neighbors nearby, a sub is not at all necessary. The bass on 2.0 speakers can be pretty damn good too. Price tag $725,

 

Bowers and Wilkins 685s

Denon AVR-1913

 

It really is awesome to listen to a decent system like this with the music cranked up. But, you can't go too loud with neighbors. Which sucks. We had a neighbor knock on our door already lol.

 

I will also be adding the turntable to the top of the stand.

 

The speaker placement may not be ideal but we are somewhat limited by space and also aesthetic concern.

 

Pls ignore purple spots on camera lol.

 

 

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postrokfan
Nice setup you have there. Congrats and enjoy!
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