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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I originally posted this on another forum, but didn't get much in the way of replies. Sorry if you've already seen it there and this is a repeat.


Would a SVS PB2 ISD be enough of a signifigant upgrade over two stacked Infinity IL120S subs both set up with Infinity's RABOS system as to justify the approximate $950 price tag (including shipping)?

Opinions please, and thanks in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Uther, what happened if you don't mind my asking? I've read nothing but great things about SVS's customer service going out of their way about straightening out any problems that may occasionally come up. Did you call them?


I did not know the PB2 ISD was now $1000 though. I thought it was $900.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mark russ
I originally posted this on another forum, but didn't get much in the way of replies. Sorry if you've already seen it there and this is a repeat.


Would a SVS PB2 ISD be enough of a signifigant upgrade over two stacked Infinity IL120S subs both set up with Infinity's RABOS system as to justify the approximate $950 price tag (including shipping)?

Opinions please, and thanks in advance.
The only advantage you'd have with the Infinity is the RABOS(if you've bought the kit), there are better and more flexible eq's for ~$120 that could be purchased in addition to the SVS and could be used with any other subs down the road. In terms of performance, the PB2-ISD has the dual Infinity's beat hands down.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mark russ
I did not know the PB2 ISD was now $1000 though. I thought it was $900.
The PB2-ISD is $899 plus $99 flat rate shipping within the continental United States.


I too would be interested in hearing Uther's SVS experience. I have only had, and heard of, good customer service experiences.
 

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Other than extension, and a bit more dB's on the range that your Infinity's can manage, not much, you have a fine sub, specially with the RABOS kit. So, the important question here is, do you care about what is happening BELOW 27Hz?


Your own answer should determine if you really need it or not.
 

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CB is right.


$899 plus $99 for shipping, or $998 total anyplace in the lower 48 United States (except Ohio where we have to charge sales tax).


We were running a shipping special to celebrate the pre-order of the PB2-ISD in NOV/DEC however. The special was $50 flat rate charge but we announced this was to end 31 DEC early in the month I believe. It could be what Uther was referring to, but I'm just guessing. If I'm wrong, I hope it's something I can change or fix.


As an aside, even at $99 we lose money on shipping with nearly every PB2-ISD that goes out. It goes via a special lift gate freight company, door to door to anywhere in 4 days or less usually. We just couldn't sustain $50 indefintely, it's a very expensive service for something pushing 200 pounds fully boxed. Since not one of the many PB2-Plus and ISD's that has gone out has been damaged it seems to be a bargain in hindsight.


Virtually every customer who's gotten a PB2-ISD has first remarked at how elaborate and helpful the shipping solution is... and second how it is we're not charging twice as much for the sub. Hopefully then $99, or what amounts to less than the true cost for shipping, isn't construed as over priced.


Ron
 

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Ron,


The issue was the way in which you informed me of the $50 shipping charge. My interpretation of the wording of your message was pretty condescending and tantamount to "hey, we were offering $50 shipping in December, if you had wanted that price you should have ordered it then". The problem is, my home page is not set to svsubwoofers.com and I had no way of knowing that there was a special; I was simply comparing the shipping cost of the 20-39 PC+ to the PB2-ISD. Do I still think this is a good product? Yes. Does SV get great reviews from members here? Yes. Am I having a really tough time reconciling that with my experience thus far? Yes.


For $1,000 communications should have been a little better, especially from sales, and my hesitation is now in wondering "gee, if this is how things went during the sales cycle, what will happen if I order and have a problem?". If you can find some way of reconciling those two things so that I know I will not experience these types of issues should I need support, you may still have a customer.
 

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Sorry about that Uther.


Certainly I never meant to be anything but curteouos (and I'm sure I speak for Erik too since I know he tried to explain the shpping cost differences). I surely didn't word anything as your quoted paraphrase reads but it hardly matters, perception is all that matters.


I always try to be as clear as I can and have no interest in causing any ill feelings (quite the opposite). IT shouldn't matter if you are buying a sub or a cable from us either. Dollar amounts don't matter in that regard at SVS one bit.


Hopefully you'll still look at SVS, but if not there certainly are other subs worthy of consideration!


Cheers.


Ron
 

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Sounds legit, deal ended the 31st....if the order wasn't in, it simply wasn't in. It scares me to think that someone isn't going to get SVS pleasure over a Grant that wasn't supposed to be theirs in the 1st place. One thing about SVS that kicks...something goes haywire, and a driver ****s the bed (it does happen)..svs will be there for ya....again and again..as provin..that alone is well worth 50 bucks! hats off man...svs rocks
 

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Threecard - You missed the point of the message and weren't involved in the series of e-mails, so it's not really for you to editorialize as to whether the "deal is legit" simply because you own an SVS.


Having said that, I am willing to take Ron's statements above at face value and chalk things up to misinterpretation. Ron is correct in that I was paraphrasing what I saw as the spirit of the correspondence, but as I said, if he says that was not his intention, I am willing to accept that. As I also mentioned, I do still believe they have good products, so it is still entirely possible that I will end up with the SVS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, now that that is all settled, can I please have some more opinions on the original question? One person said it would be a huge, dramatic upgrade while another said not really. I realize that the PB2 ISD would go a little lower all the way down to (and maybe even past) 20 HZ, but in the same range that the dual Infinities can also play, how much difference could I expect. Could the dual stacked Infinities at least halfway hold their own, or would they be absolutely trounced? I figure that by having two of them stacked I get an extra 3 db extension out of them as opposed to only having one.


As a side note, I checked completed auctions on ebay and I could probably get about $300 each for my IL120S subs if I sold them, so figure the actual cost of the upgrade would be approximately $400 or so. Worth it?


Also I should point out that "musicality" is very important to me, and the RABOS sytem does seem to really help in that regard about "tightening" up the bass from being loose and/or sloppy. On SVS's website they tout the PB2 ISD as being a "music first" sub. Another side note is that for 2 channel stereo music listening, my mains are big floorstanders with more than adequate bass on their own without a sub entirely.
 

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Mark,


Tom in R/D might know of some performance data on the Infinity subs, good objective data are hard to come by in some cases.


As for the "music first" thing I should probably qualify that. We do mention this but frankly all of our subs go thru intense music tests during R/D, along with the usual battery of objective measurements, and movies of course. What makes the PB2-ISD perhaps a bit better in some regards is the relatively high tuning of 25Hz (this is low by industry standards, but the highest frequency we tune any subs to up to now). This is the reason we recommend similarly tuned subs (25-31PCi for instance) to someone with a straight two channel rig that has no intention of watching movies (there are lots of stereo fans out there!).


Since nearly no pop or rock, and only pipe organ classical dips much below that point it's probably ideal for a music fan. Of course home theater is known for containing relatively more deep bass but that's what variable tuning on this sub (and where present, on other brands of subs) comes in handy.


In stock form a PB2-ISD is really tailor made for music. For HT I'd only drop it one tuning point to 20Hz. There's still lots of port space, but overall you give up a bit of headroom above 25Hz.


I won't comment on "musicality" per se. It's a wildly subjective topic. It's probably just best to say SVS strives for the best accuracy at theater or concert level SPLs (and all points below) and leave the "music" up to the artists and the recording engineers.


Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Ron. I don't fully understand exactly how it works, but the RABOS system does seem to make a noticeable improvement to the sound, although it is sort of a pain in the @$$ to set it up at first. If I'm not mistaken, the Infinities are rated down to 27 HZ, but I vaugely seem to recall reading a review somewhere where they were actually measured with a least some (semi) signifigant output all the way down to 20 HZ. Actually for music only, they are more than adequate. Maybe I'd be better off getting the PB2 PLUS for movies, but I thought what if I ever wind up getting some bookshelves as mains?
 

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Infinity make their drivers out of this ultra rigid Carbon Metal matrix technology, other manufacturer's cones simply are not this rigid, they dont have the techology. Add that to a true Digital amplifier, the RABOS tuning system, and the Infinity wins the tech race against most of these boutique sub manufacturers handily.


Now I am willing to grant that companies like Adire, SVS and HSU do just fine without all the fancy technology, by spending more time focusing on what the customer wants, deep low bass, and come out on top in that department.


My IL120 doesnt start dropping noticeably in dB till around 24HZ, and is still only 4DB down from average at 20HZ. The RABOS system demands you measure all these frequencies and flatten any spike, and so you will see for yourself that it goes reasonably low. It sounds excellent for music as the CMMD driver handles transients real well... They are poweful subs, lots of raw digital watts, and I think two IL120s will handle things to around 24hz with aplomb.
 

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What do you want to hear? someone that tells you what to do? Well, I will do that. :D


Buy the SVS, don't sell your Infinity's, compare them side by side, in your room, with your electronics and your test material. Then, decide for yourself. You have to be aware of the return policy from SVS, so you wont risk a penny nor you will rely on what others think.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnR_IN_LA
Infinity make their drivers out of this ultra rigid Carbon Metal matrix technology, other manufacturer's cones simply are not this rigid, they dont have the techology. Add that to a true Digital amplifier, the RABOS tuning system, and the Infinity wins the tech race against most of these boutique sub manufacturers handily.
Agreed. I own its little brother, the IL100s, and it is a good sub. No, not on par with my Tempest DIY monster, but for the size and for what I paid for it I love how it sounds.
 

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If you're happy with the output and extension of the IL120's then I say stick with them. Having two bands of parametric eq is a big plus for the Infinity's and as you've found out already, it makes a big difference in sound quality at the main listening position. The SVS can go louder and lower, but might not sound as good after having the RABOS system. If you do switch to another sub I recommend looking into an eq like the BFD.
 

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Well, technically the parametric EQ on just one of the subs should correct the response for both, or for as many subs as you want to put in the room. The advantage of having the second EQ is if you had 2 noticable peaks that both needed knocking off, since the RABOS in a single band EQ and can only cancel one major peak. For extension, I think your room size will play a factor. I also own an IL120s, and from the sub's rated -3db point (28hz) I am also about 4db down at 20hz. In a larger room I surmise the SVS will easily outperform it at 20hz. My ears actually only register 22hz and above (I've been told by a couple of doctors that this is somewhat common), so I have to trust the measurements. Remember, though, that 4db actually is a meaningful loss in output, since the second sub only adds 3db in it's own right. The majority of bass in movies is above 25hz, so if you're happy with your current subs (I am), then I also would suggest keeping your current setup, or doing a direct comparison so you can see for yourself.
 

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mark russ, when you performed your RABOS calibration and got your settings for freq, width, and level, did you enter those settings into BOTH of your IL120s? Because if you did, you might be greatly over-correcting and actually creating a null at that freq instead. A second run of the RABOS testing procedure would bear this out if it were true. That's my understanding of it anyway, which I'm fairly certain is correct. Alternatively, I think you could take the value you got for Level and divide it by two and enter that number into each sub if you wanted to use both EQs, although I think that would be a waste since you could re-test and use the second EQ to eliminate a second peak; even if it was just a little one. Just wanted to give you the heads-up on that.
 
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