[mrvideo]

Do not be surprised if some of the music acts tonight turn into a macroblock mess on your screen.


I'd say about half of the acts have rapid lighting changes that affect the video and therefore will affect how well your local affiliate's MPEG-2 encoder will handle the massive/rapid video changes.


While 720p is better than 1080i, within the limitations of ATSC, if your affiliate has one or more subchannels (mine has two), your screen will become a blotchy mess.


Other than that

enjoy tonight's show.

 

[bobby94928]

Ya know, I'm gonna record this just to see if you are full of BS or not....

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 /forum/post/19525003


Ya know, I'm gonna record this just to see if you are full of BS or not....

No BS. Based upon history, especially the Grammy awards, and how it looked via my local affiliate and the lighting for some of the acts tonight, the local affiliate 720p encoders are going to have a rough time.

 

[nickdawg]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/19524821


Do not be surprised if some of the music acts tonight turn into a macroblock mess on your screen.

You say that like it's a bad thing!!

I wish the audio would also turn to silence, especially when crappy acts like Justine Beaver are on. Barf.

 

[jjeff]

Producers really need to limit their use of strobe lights. With digital TV I've NEVER seen strobes look good on my screens. They vary from noticeable to a total macroblocking mess

I mean I'd hope they are producing these live event shows for the viewing public and not the few who are actually live. With that in mind strobes really ruin the picture and should be limited.

It doesn't matter if its on ABC or even CBS (which in my area has no subs) it ruins the picture

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdawg /forum/post/19525208


I wish the audio would also turn to silence, especially when crappy acts like Justine Beaver are on. Barf.

ROTFLMAO

You do have a mute on your remote

 

[Ken H]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/19524821



While 720p is better than 1080i, within the limitations of ATSC...

That's a matter of opinion.

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/19525233


Producers really need to limit their use of strobe lights. With digital TV I've NEVER seen strobes look good on my screens. They vary from noticeable to a total macroblocking mess

Isn't the lighting also a major choice of the musical act?


The video can indeed look great, under the right conditions. Unfortunately those conditions are not in the viewer's homes (normally).

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H /forum/post/19525312


That's a matter of opinion.

There are engineers who will agree with me and I've seen it in the trades.


Before the local ABC affiliate added one, then two, subchannels, it was a lot tougher to have macroblocking. Now it is real easy. But, before the local NBC affiliate added their subchannel it was not difficult to have macroblocking.


Right now Rhiannon had a piece of her presentation full of strobes. Sure enough, the local ABC affiliate couldn't handle it.


I'm capturing two sources, one of which is the local affiliate. I'll grab some examples and post them later on tonight.

 

[jjeff]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/19525324


Isn't the lighting also a major choice of the musical act?

Yes I suppose you're right, hopefully the acts will realize how it looks on US TVs and self limit strobes, but I'm not holding my breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/19525446



Right now Rhiannon had a piece of her presentation full of strobes. Sure enough, the local ABC affiliate couldn't handle it.

What a mess, totally ruined the number for me.

OTA 1 SD sub.

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/19525795

What a mess, totally ruined the number for me.

OTA 1 SD sub.

I believe that even if ATSC was using H.264 instead of MPEG-2, the idiots with ties too tight around their necks would add even more subchannels, still resulting in the HD stream looking like crap.

 

[zack8322]

Watching WXYZ Detroit via D and it's not looking that bad. sound is pretty decent too.


Seems to be more performances than awards this time around. Don't listen to commercial radio anymore so I have no idea what's going on with pop music, so far nothing really outstanding...

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by zack8322 /forum/post/19525883


Seems to be more performances than awards this time around. Don't listen to commercial radio anymore so I have no idea what's going on with pop music, so far nothing really outstanding...

There are 18 performances.

 

[Mentalist5.1]

It's just a macroblocked, nearly unwatchable mess for me on KOMO from Seattle via Shaw Cable in Canada.

 

[mrvideo]

OK, I have 6 pair of images. You won't have any trouble telling which is which.


The first four are from the Rhianna piece. The next two are a result of just plain motion..

Image 1a - Image 1b
Image 2a - Image 2b
Image 3a - Image 3b
Image 4a - Image 4b
Image 5a - Image 5b
Image 6a - Image 6b

 

[lovebohn]

That is the same crap my local CBS has had for years, 2 sub channels and any strobe or even action looks like crap. That is with a 1080i.

 

[Mizzou!]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mrvideo /forum/post/19526986


OK, I have 6 pair of images. You won't have any trouble telling which is which.

What are we comparing? The first is over the air without subchannels? Or is this production master to Tivo recording at home?

 

[jjeff]

I assume from the lack of the ABC bug that the b's are some type of trunk feed.

Wow! what a difference, I want the b's on my HDTV, I basically see your a's in my house.

Thanks for the great screen shots, they really show the result of motion and compression. I agree though, even if we had went with a better compression method, the suits would just try and cram more on the given space, resulting in a similar picture

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lovebohn /forum/post/19528512


That is the same crap my local CBS has had for years, 2 sub channels and any strobe or even action looks like crap. That is with a 1080i.

My local CBS affiliate has a single subchannel and the Grammy show can be unwatchable at times.


I seriously believe that even without any subchannels, 1080i over ATSC can't handle video like this.

 

[mrvideo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/19530511


I assume from the lack of the ABC bug that the b's are some type of trunk feed.

Backup sat feed. MPEG-2 @ 35 Mbps. I say backup because I believe the main feed these days is extremely high bitrate fiber. The ABC network feed is 22.5 Mbps H.264, so they have to be using a source that I'd love to be able to see.


But, even at 35 Mbps, the site encoder had no trouble handling it.

Quote:
Wow! what a difference, I want the b's on my HDTV, I basically see your a's in my house.

Mizzou! asked how many subchannels were involved. I believe that I had posted that earlier, but, it is two. Even when it was only one, there has been trouble. I did a capture like this with a college football game and there were problems then.

Quote:
Thanks for the great screen shots, they really show the result of motion and compression.

You are welcome.


Like I said when I started this thread, it was going to be an issue, and it was.


As a side note, I always have to chuckle when it comes to the old DTV transition public service announcements claiming that going from analog to digitial will result in crystal clear images. The government must have some pretty flawed crystal.