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I think 2011 will be the year that Panasonic is half way to 9G Pioneer picture quality compared to what the current VT25 is now.


2012 will be the magic year that Pioneer is finally dethroned.
 

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Amidst all the speculation here, there's been some pretty reliable sources (DNice, amongst others) who have been quite insistent that the 2011 Panny plasmas will not equal the 9G Pioneer Kuros in black levels. Obviously they'll have other features - like 3D - that the Kuros don't, but overall it seems that 2011 will not be the "break even" year.
 

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I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for Panasonic to use the Pio tech (if they ever). No one knows if they will and I can't understand why it would take this long to implement it. I mean what's so special about 2011, 12, etc... Can someone please tell me why and don't use the down economy because the VT does not qualify as a doorbuster.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedYou /forum/post/18958293


I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for Panasonic to use the Pio tech (if they ever). No one knows if they will and I can't understand why it would take this long to implement it. I mean what's so special about 2011, 12, etc... Can someone please tell me why and don't use the down economy because the VT does not qualify as a doorbuster.

Owning the tech is only half of the equation - the other half is manufacturing it at a reasonable cost. Look at OLED - it's a proven tech and OLED displays are commercially available, but they are prohibitively expensive because their manufacturing cost is so high. Panasonic may simply be trying to figure out how to implement all of the stuff they bought from Pioneer without manufacturing costs going up significantly from what they are now. They may figure that out tomorrow, they may figure it out a couple years from now. Who knows.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedYou /forum/post/18958293


I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for Panasonic to use the Pio tech (if they ever). No one knows if they will and I can't understand why it would take this long to implement it. I mean what's so special about 2011, 12, etc... Can someone please tell me why and don't use the down economy because the VT does not qualify as a doorbuster.

It's not fully implemented in the current models because it was too late in the development stage for the 2010 models to do so when they purchased Kuro technology.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by david437 /forum/post/18955120


Hello,



I was about to buy a TV but after reading the panasonic issue thread I abandoned my plans. I want blacks that equal or surpass those of the Pioneer G9 Kuros, together with all the other benefits, like 3D etc...

So, what about the 2011 Panasonic plasmas ? Is there any information about the new series or do I have to wait until IFA Berlin or even CES ?


A list of what we can expect, maybe:


better blacklevels (perfect black ? )

no blacklevel rise

10 Lumen technics (lighter, less power consumption)

3D also in small sizes

better 3D glases (the avaible ones are a joke )

1080p motion on all models

no more 720p plasmas

thinner design (Samsung just released a 1/3 " thin LCD TV...)

a more modern design

Fuga Pioneer on the high end models

even faster phosphor for the high end models

2D-3D Conversation


Does this sound realistic or utopistic ?


greetings

Will the VT25 be upgradable for 2d 3d conversion
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot /forum/post/18958212


Amidst all the speculation here, there's been some pretty reliable sources (DNice, amongst others) who have been quite insistent that the 2011 Panny plasmas will not equal the 9G Pioneer Kuros in black levels. Obviously they'll have other features - like 3D - that the Kuros don't, but overall it seems that 2011 will not be the "break even" year.

This is interesting, as I've heard D-Nice state that they would be better from his sources, but this was a few months ago, so things may have changed.


I know Robert from Value Electronics was of the opinion that the 2011 models would not be surpassing Pioneer in black level or grayscale.


The VT25 is an excellent set, but if Panasonic could eliminate the black level rise/floating black issue, then these sets would really be wonderful. Blacks under .004 ft/L is nice, but unless you're watching tv in a dark room, it's diminishing returns.


HDTV Test measured blacks a little darker even at .002 ft/L They also had one of the most accurate meters possible for testing idle luminance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau /forum/post/18958902


This is interesting, as I've heard D-Nice state that they would be better from his sources, but this was a few months ago, so things may have changed.

You could be right, I can't find anything with a quick search but I thought I distinctly remember D-Nice being quite emphatic about the 2011 (G13) Panny plasmas not besting the 9G Kuros in black levels. I'm aware there are other areas that they'll probably surpass the Kuro in, but I seem to remember the black level area being one that wasn't going to advance beyond Kuro levels. Oh well, I guess we'll see in not too long then won't we
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot /forum/post/18959133


You could be right, I can't find anything with a quick search but I thought I distinctly remember D-Nice being quite emphatic about the 2011 (G13) Panny plasmas not besting the 9G Kuros in black levels. I'm aware there are other areas that they'll probably surpass the Kuro in, but I seem to remember the black level area being one that wasn't going to advance beyond Kuro levels. Oh well, I guess we'll see in not too long then won't we

Why are we so focused on a unsubstantiated statement. I read post all the time saying "I'm waiting on the 2011, 2012 etc.. Panny/Kuro". I'll believe it when I see it.
 

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With technology there is never a better time. Improvements are going to be coming all the time. I guess if one does have a TV, waiting might be worthwhile as the Panny would definitely be a Kuro beater if some of the kinks/deficiencies are addressed. However, what does one do if there is no TV and waiting for one to two years is out of the question???
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandaroy /forum/post/18959450


With technology there is never a better time. Improvements are going to be coming all the time. I guess if one does have a TV, waiting might be worthwhile as the Panny would definitely be a Kuro beater if someone of the kinks/deficiencies are addressed. However, what does one do if there is no TV and waiting for one to two years is out of the question???

Well in that case if it was me, I would look at all available sets, weigh the pros and cons of each, then get the biggest screen size at the cheapest price. In other words if you can be happy with say a 50" Panny for 1k for the next few years and wait and see what comes up the line.
 

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Hi All,


After Pioneer had formally exited the market, Jim Catchside of Pioneer UK, when asked when the G9 Kuro's would be surpassed stated in 2010. This has not happened clearly but what it may mean is that he was probably aware of Panasonic's capabilities at the time having shared technologies, engineers & the two companies working closely with each other.


The statement that Jim made at the time was probably correct but some time down the line, Panasonic either could not implement as much of the Kuro tech in time or amended things in order to bring things to market.


My view still remains that IF they do apply Kuro tech it will be on a staggered basis with the top ranges getting all/most of it & it correspondingly decreasing down the ranges. With this in mind, whether it comes out in any meaningful way (2011 or 2012!), I feel the hyper expensive flagship models like the Z Series may then qualify as true Kuro beaters. The other ranges will be kind of like Ford's with a minimum amount of BMW parts within them - how much depends on the range.


With Black Levels that Panasonic feel satisfies probably the vast majority of their market, I wonder how bothered they really are about this & if they really are bothered about beating the Kuro as we all wish them to be - their new honey pot is 3D & I feel that is where they will focus on more than anything else. They could also just have bought the Kuro tech to stop it getting into the hands of competitors - we just do not know but I feel they will use what they can to readily integrate in to their products (or at least with the minimum of change) at minimum cost. These are just my feelings & views on things - yours may differ!


I pray Panny has noticed how sweet some other sets look aesthetically & finally in 2011 produce eye pleasing sets but once again, knowing Panny, I am not holding my breath!


Bazzy!
 

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From a business standpoint, it would make the most sense to implement the technology obtained by Pioneer slowly but surely over the next generations. The big push in the market is 3D right now. LCD technology is changing rapidly. Plasma panels will have to start advertising some new technology. You can't market increased contrast ratio figures and deeper black levels forever...consumers aren't that passive. Where do you go from an "infinite black" claim?
Super infinite black? Super-Duper infinite black??
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedYou /forum/post/18959164


Why are we so focused on a unsubstantiated statement. I read post all the time saying "I'm waiting on the 2011, 2012 etc.. Panny/Kuro". I'll believe it when I see it.

Do you know who D-Nice is? He, unlike most of us here who shoot from the hip, actually has accurate insider info. He's not often wrong on this stuff, nor does he just guess like we do - so if he says something is/will be so, there's a reason.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot /forum/post/18962375


Do you know who D-Nice is? He, unlike most of us here who shoot from the hip, actually has accurate insider info. He's not often wrong on this stuff, nor does he just guess like we do - so if he says something is/will be so, there's a reason.

AFAIK, the last thing he said about 14G (2011) models was that blacks would improve further, but they may or may not exceed 9G Kuro black levels. Nothing is set in stone yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot /forum/post/18962375


Do you know who D-Nice is? He, unlike most of us here who shoot from the hip, actually has accurate insider info. He's not often wrong on this stuff, nor does he just guess like we do - so if he says something is/will be so, there's a reason.

Well in all fairness, he said that the larger sizes 58+ would triple in MLL as well. This hasn't happened (They've almost doubled, but not quite even doubled)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 /forum/post/18962400


AFAIK, the last thing he said about 14G (2011) models was that blacks would improve further, but they may or may not exceed 9G Kuro black levels. Nothing is set in stone yet.

Sorry, I had my gens mixed up - for some reason was thinking that 13G = 2011 models. Whoops


Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangs1 /forum/post/18962410


Well in all fairness, he said that the larger sizes 58+ would triple in MLL as well. This hasn't happened (They've almost doubled, but not quite even doubled)

I said "not often wrong", not "infallible"
 

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What hasn't happen? I calibrated a 65V10 a few weeks ago with 2200 hours on it. Guess what the MLL was.... 0.017fL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangs1 /forum/post/18962410


Well in all fairness, he said that the larger sizes 58+ would triple in MLL as well. This hasn't happened (They've almost doubled, but not quite even doubled)
 

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I have the same meter they do and I consistently measure 0.004fL on the VT series. Either EU models have different glass (next to zero chance) or something is fishy with that review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau /forum/post/18958902


This is interesting,

as I've heard D-Nice state that they would be better from his sources, but this was a few months ago, so things may have changed.


I know Robert from Value Electronics was of the opinion that the 2011 models would not be surpassing Pioneer in black level or grayscale.


The VT25 is an excellent set, but if Panasonic could eliminate the black level rise/floating black issue, then these sets would really be wonderful. Blacks under .004 ft/L is nice, but unless you're watching tv in a dark room, it's diminishing returns.


HDTV Test measured blacks a little darker even at .002 ft/L They also had one of the most accurate meters possible for testing idle luminance.
 
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