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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/400_100#post_24526817


Did anyone ever post more concrete info than "it's great" or "it sucks?"
No, just a greater volume of "it sucks". Much of it repetitive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/420#post_24526817


I gave up trying to keep up with that thread some time ago. So many posts each day, and the S/N ratio wasn't very good - so I don't really want to wade back into it now
. But way back when I was following it (in January
), most seemed to be praising the tuner and rating it even more highly than the Pal's tuner.


Odd that the consensus would change so dramatically. Did anyone ever post more concrete info than "it's great" or "it sucks?"

Opinions changed when the Non CM employees started getting their units and since they were not paid shills for CM the real world results started coming in. Just think about all the problems that started to be reported that the early forum posters NEVER noticed and that will give you a hint as to what was going on.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/420#post_24526878


True; manufacturers have made great strides improving ATSC reception since it began. Even back in '08 (when the Pals were made) most had gotten pretty good. Also, there's less difference between the best and worst tuners today. I suspect if the best tuner got an A+, the worst would still get a C. Very few poor ATSC tuners around.


You probably only care about tuner quality if you're in a challenging environment to start with (either fringe reception, or bedeviled by multipath). And the antenna is almost always a more critical link in the chain than the tuner. Nevertheless, it's frustrating to replace a DVR and discover that the new one doesn't receive all the stations the old one did, so I understand the desire for some ratings.

I think you are wrong on this. I think MOST TV manufacturers rate putting the best OTA tuners in their TVs as low priority as MOST people use their TVs for Cable, Sat or FIOS. Why would they spend a lot on this when they can cut corners and the vast majority of people who buy their brand TV would never know this and the people who review the TV's could care less about how it performs for OTA.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/420#post_24526817


I gave up trying to keep up with that thread some time ago. So many posts each day, and the S/N ratio wasn't very good - so I don't really want to wade back into it now
. But way back when I was following it (in January
), most seemed to be praising the tuner and rating it even more highly than the Pal's tuner.


Odd that the consensus would change so dramatically. Did anyone ever post more concrete info than "it's great" or "it sucks?"

You should go back to the thread now and see the very specific comments about the DVR+ issues.
 

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I may wade back into the DVR+ thread. Disappointing if it has a poor tuner a la the CM-7400, since it's the only thing aside from TiVo or a PC (or an "illegal" PHD-VRX) that has a better EPG than the stations broadcast.


I hope someone can be more specific than "it sucks" though. How does it suck exactly? Does it have problems with multipath, like some TiVos did, or problems with ACI (weak stations next to strong ones) like the Homeworx, only worse? It's important to know what the issues are; some you may be able to compensate for. For instance, a clean preamp can compensate for a noisy, low-quality first stage in the tuner; certain antennas can clean up multipath quite a bit, etc.


Most manufacturers probably choose the cheapest tuner they can find with "acceptable" performance. But what constitutes "acceptable" still varies from one manufacturer to another. Sad to hear E* has dropped their standards in this area. Maybe it's because they're only making these for CM, not Dish, and CM doesn't care the way they used to.
 

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Like any DVR out there today...buy it knowing the return policy and try it. Put it through its paces immediately and if it works for you OK then keep it otherwise return it ASAP!
 

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That's a lot easier if the box is available locally (TiVo, the Funai DVR, an iView clone, and maybe someday the DVR+). If I'm buying online I'd much rather know the issues and possible workarounds beforehand. Especially if the box is $200 or more (I didn't feel too bad about trying a $40 Homeworx).
 

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Remove Non-programmable DVR's

 

I think you should remove any DVR's, like TiVo, that can not be programmed to record for free out of the box. Otherwise the cost is misleading because you must pay additional charges for a subscription fee or it will not record. Therefore, it is not comparable to the other boxes and should be excluded, perhaps with a disclaimer that Tivo's are very popular and a good choice for those willing to pay the extra fees, and a warning that they are dead-in-the water otherwise.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by laridae  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/420#post_24533590

Remove Non-programmable DVR's


I think you should remove any DVR's, like TiVo, that can not be programmed to record for free out of the box. Otherwise the cost is misleading because you must pay additional charges for a subscription fee or it will not record. Therefore, it is not comparable to the other boxes and should be excluded, perhaps with a disclaimer that Tivo's are very popular and a good choice for those willing to pay the extra fees, and a warning that they are dead-in-the water otherwise.

Do the non subscription dvr's record encrypted cable programming & premium channels? If not, they are dead in the water for recording the programming I'm interested in. However whatever lifetime fee or monthly subscription fee required should be clearly stated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/420#post_24533653


Do the non subscription dvr's record encrypted cable programming & premium channels?
Nope.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/420#post_24533653


However whatever lifetime fee or monthly subscription fee required should be clearly stated.
 

OK, that would be a good compromise if Videobruce decides to leave them in.

At least that way people could make an informed choice about what they were getting.

 

As it stands now there is a lot of confusion and misunderstandings. I still see people on this forum, for example, asking whether or not they can use a TiVo without a subscription so this fact should be clearly noted in the comparison table.
 

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LOL -- and now for something completely absurd:
Quote:
Originally Posted by laridae  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/400_100#post_24533590

Remove Non-programmable DVR's


I think you should remove any DVR's, like TiVo, that can not be programmed to record for free out of the box. Otherwise the cost is misleading because you must pay additional charges for a subscription fee or it will not record. Therefore, it is not comparable to the other boxes and should be excluded, perhaps with a disclaimer that Tivo's are very popular and a good choice for those willing to pay the extra fees, and a warning that they are dead-in-the water otherwise.

YES -- I fully support this.

PLEASE REMOVE ALL MENTION OF TiVo FROM THE LIST AND POSTS OF THIS THREAD.


Then maybe you people will stop posting your continual streams of nonsense.
 

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Quote:
Then maybe you people will stop posting your continual streams of nonsense.
 

No way. Every once in a while I check-in for entertainment purposes only. 
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/400_100#post_24536840


No way. Every once in a while I check-in for entertainment purposes only. 
I think I'd rather watch my TiVo.
 
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Discussion Starter #455
Then do so.
 

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Discussion Starter #456

Quote:
whatever lifetime fee or monthly subscription fee required should be clearly stated.
It has been. The first entry under PROGRAM GUIDE & RECORDING; "Pay only".
 

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I'm guessing what incensed the OP is that TiVo's business model is so counter-intuitive. Common sense tells you if you don't buy the guide, you won't get the guide - but you'd (naively) think you could still use a TiVo "VCR style."


But of course, if TiVo worked that way, they could only charge what the guide was actually worth
and the TiVo boxes themselves would cost more. Probably, the OP either overlooked the "Pay only" listing in the chart, or else he didn't understand its full implications, bought a TiVo, and then discovered he mostly couldn't use it without paying more. (I think it'll still time-shift but that's about it.) Sorry he took it out on you for not putting those two words in a font like this!


I don't like TiVo's business model, so I never bought one, but I think they're OK as long as you understand the rules and are willing to pay their fees (either monthly or up-front for a lifetime subscription).
 

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Discussion Starter #458
The problem is, TiVo apparently doesn't make it clear enough or you wouldn't have so many doing the same thing. Buying it and then finding out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/450#post_24542017


The problem is, TiVo apparently doesn't make it clear enough or you wouldn't have so many doing the same thing. Buying it and then finding out.
Oh people know(at least someone not living under a rock) but so many people want something for nothing it's not funny.....we get people all the time that want to purchase a Tivo for $99 and then not pay for lifetime or monthly, wonder if the same people go to Verizon and want to get a iPhone for free(or $99) and then not sign up for a 2 year contract
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt  /t/1460149/2014-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs/400_100#post_24541796


I'm guessing what incensed the OP is that TiVo's business model is so counter-intuitive. Common sense tells you if you don't buy the guide, you won't get the guide - but you'd think you could still use a TiVo "VCR style."
Here we go again .
 
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