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Yeah I am starting to think it's not very good either. So I am considering getting an Panny UB820. The trouble is a lot of people recommend using both the UB820's HDR Optimizer (which is just its tone mapping as far as I know) AND the TVs. But I am trying to avoid using the TVs as, as you mentioned, it's results aren't always great.
Are you not perhaps confusing the regular tone mapping the TV does with the dynamic option?

However if I just use the players tone mapping and it tone maps down to 1000, but my TV is only capable of around 800, then dont I simply lose information from 800-1000?
The TV takes it from there and tone maps down to 700 nits.

That is why I was wondering what the LG's DTM maps down to. I always figured it was down to what the TV can handle, say 800. But maybe it only goes down to 1000. In which case, both devices tone map down to a point and would make choosing one or the other earlier and would really (In my mind) make double tone mapping pointless.
With OLED selected the UB820 maps all output to a more digestible 1000 nits, your TV takes it from there. The TV maps down to 700 nits, this happens regardless, what DTM does is manipulate the curve as its algorithm dictates. Just leave it off and let the UB820 and LG tone map in tandem for the best image. That's the benefit, the UB820 does the heavy lifting making light work for the LG.
 

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:eek::eek::eek:

I don't know of any TV that can do that. In almost 20 thousand posts here, you're the first person to ever ask that question.

Can I ask why on Earth you want to do such a crazy thing?
Part of project to theme my home theater room after Disney World Tower of Terror (photos showing current state). Want to place OLED on right non-moving side of sliding door to show video of lightning struck family waving people in to theater. The TV mounted on the right side of the sliding glass door will have shallow acrylic box built over it (with ventilation). A printed film of the rides elevator doors will be placed over the moving left door and over the acrylic face over the non-moving side to conceal the TV, but will allow the video to be seen when played.
I apologize it my photos are upside down, can't figure out why they seem to load this way.
 

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What dynamic tonemapping really does is turn your LG into a Samsung by highly going above the EOTF in most scenes, making the picture overly bright and innacurate. It will stretch the signal, exaggerating any issues that are present in the content. But like Samsung has said, this is what most people prefer and with their TVs you can't even turn that crap off...:)
 

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What is your viewing distance and what picture mode are you using ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
About 8' and ISF Expert Dark Room.
 

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The picture on my 77C8 seems "off" and I'm not quite sure what to do about it. The picture doesn't look terrible and all the fine detail is there, but there a "swarm"-like level of movement on top of it. Not grain, but it looks like very light artifacting. It's most pronounced in backgrounds like skies, fabrics, etc.--things where there isn't a lot of detail to distract from the effect. I watched UNDER THE SKIN the other night, where there are a lot of colors/lights against pitch black backgrounds, and it was VERY compression-y. I've seen the disc elsewhere and it doesn't look like that. The set is up-to-date on software and I'm using the RTings settings. Does anyone have a hunch on what this could be, or should I just hire an ISF calibrator? I wish I could post a picture of it, but it's really tough to capture in a still.
I've attached some screen pics of an iTunes stream that I just watched (the 2019 film TRESPASSERS). Hard to capture with an iPhone, but you can see some of the noise that I'm talking about. I checked out the same stream on my 65C7 and it looked perfect--not like this at all. Is this a defect?
 

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I'm wondering if anyone using a Harmony remote might have a solution to an issue I'm having, or at a potential work around - I have my C8 connected to a denon AVR that is in a closet. Connected to the denon is an NVidia Shield and a Comcast cable box. I like to use the TV's internal apps for NetFlix and Amazon Prime because I actually think the PQ is a bit better than using the shield. Because I am using the internal apps, i need to have ARC on, which means I need to have Simplink on as well.

The issue is that when I use the "watch TV" activity on the Harmony, which is my activity to watch my cable box, the simplink is causing the denon to switch to the "TV Audio" input. Which means i then need to move to the "CBL/SAT" input on the denon manually. I verified that when I turn Simplink off, I don't have this problem, but to get ARC form the internal apps, I need to have simplink on.

The Harmony allows you to put a delay in the activity, which I tried to add right before switching the denon input to CBL/SAT, but that doesn't seem to be working for some reason. Right now my workaround is that I mapped a button on the remote to change the input to CBL/SAT, but that means I start the "watch TV" activity and then have to hit that button to get my cable box.

Anyone have a solution / better workaround?
There is an Harmony support forum you can ask for assistance and they are quite helpfull. Anyhow, I know their approach and they will tell you not use Simplink, and use toptical. My experience tell you can keep Simplink. The trick, in your case, is to add a delay after the power on, in the power on sequence (a "nop" command is needed after the delay, otherwise the delay is skipped) and adding the switch to CBL/SAT in the activity start sequence). Satr with long delays, and the tune them. If you need more help send me private message, I don't want to bother with stuff out of topic.
 
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Part of project to theme my home theater room after Disney World Tower of Terror (photos showing current state). Want to place OLED on right non-moving side of sliding door to show video of lightning struck family waving people in to theater. The TV mounted on the right side of the sliding glass door will have shallow acrylic box built over it (with ventilation). A printed film of the rides elevator doors will be placed over the moving left door and over the acrylic face over the non-moving side to conceal the TV, but will allow the video to be seen when played.
I apologize it my photos are upside down, can't figure out why they seem to load this way.

There are home-theaters in this forum that use LED/LCD TVs as their poster presentation in portrait. Do a search here on the vsforum.
 

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You could try the Lindy CECless adapter to stop the CEC commands and still leave ARC functional. It has worked for some.
Really? That is encouraging to hear. I have tried everything I can think of to maintain ARC and ditch CEC. Once I add that adaptor into the mix ARC stops working even though everything still shows as enabled (meaning it doesn't do that switch to internal speaker thing that it normally does when ARC disconnects). Do you happen to know how people are getting it to function?
 

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Are you not perhaps confusing the regular tone mapping the TV does with the dynamic option?

The TV takes it from there and tone maps down to 700 nits.

With OLED selected the UB820 maps all output to a more digestible 1000 nits, your TV takes it from there. The TV maps down to 700 nits, this happens regardless, what DTM does is manipulate the curve as its algorithm dictates. Just leave it off and let the UB820 and LG tone map in tandem for the best image. That's the benefit, the UB820 does the heavy lifting making light work for the LG.
I was indeed confusing the two. I actually had no idea until today that the TV does some kind of tone mapping regardless of Dynamic Tone Mapping. That sure explains a lot! What is the difference between the TV's tone mapping and its Dynamic tone mapping?

Boy, finding that out sure simplifies things! (Thank you.)
 

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I've attached some screen pics of an iTunes stream that I just watched (the 2019 film TRESPASSERS). Hard to capture with an iPhone, but you can see some of the noise that I'm talking about. I checked out the same stream on my 65C7 and it looked perfect--not like this at all. Is this a defect?
Humor me and try the same scenes with "frame rate matching" turned off on your Apple TV under its video settings.

I've seen my Apple TV 4K show some strange behavior/artifacts when matching frame rates. Though I think it happens most when YUV of 4:4:4 is enabled too.

--H
 

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I was indeed confusing the two. I actually had no idea until today that the TV does some kind of tone mapping regardless of Dynamic Tone Mapping. That sure explains a lot! What is the difference between the TV's tone mapping and its Dynamic tone mapping?
All TVs that display HDR have to perform tone-mapping, both for luminances which they can't display, and the wider colours of rec.2020 which they can't display. Since day one. Otherwise if you watched a 4,000 nit movie on a 500 nit display everything above 500 nits would be clipped. For HDR10, there's no standard which dictates how a manufacturer should implement tone mapping. It's the "wild west". Everyone does it differently. For Dolby Vision, there is a standard (Dolby Vision) and this gives content creators confidence on how their work will look.

When doing static tonemapping (in fact all forms of tonemapping), you can EITHER keep the highlight detail, OR the overall brightness. You have to pick ONE because the TV physically cannot display both!

Here's a very good comparison of the different approaches. You will learn a lot from this very entertaining video:

One criticism in the past particularly on low-nit displays is that if there is a single very bright scene in a movie, the rest of the movie can look very dark because the TV tone-maps everything down to make "headroom" for that bright bit.

Dynamic tone mapping, an enhancement built into HDR10+ and Dolby Vision both provide specific data for each scene, instead of a single set of values, so that the TV's tone-mapping algorithm can make better decisions, and doesn't have a whole dark load of stuff just because of one bright scene.

LG's Dynamic tone mapping for HDR10 is a poor man's version of that. It's the TV's guesswork. It analyses the incoming signal "on the fly", without the benefit of knowing what is coming in 1 second or 1 minute's time, and tries to "react" to the signal that is coming in. If it gets it wrong it can make things suddenly bright or dark because it's constantly having to react.

The "HDR Optimiser" function in the Panasonic players is more than just "Dynamic tone mapping". And it does a far better job. Please watch Vincent's video:
 

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Really? That is encouraging to hear. I have tried everything I can think of to maintain ARC and ditch CEC. Once I add that adaptor into the mix ARC stops working even though everything still shows as enabled (meaning it doesn't do that switch to internal speaker thing that it normally does when ARC disconnects). Do you happen to know how people are getting it to function?
No. I don't know the number of people who have been successful. Not everyone who purchases the Lindy posts here. Just but it from Amazon and try it out. If it doesn't work, return it.

ARC/CEC is a [email protected] for lots of folks. Partially because on some systems, they are related so you can't completely disable one without the other. And that's not specific to one mfr either. I don't need ARC because I don't use the internal apps on my panel so I just use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for local HDTV stations only (which is 5.1) instead of ARC and a Harmony remote to control everything instead of CEC.
 

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No. I don't know the number of people who have been successful. Not everyone who purchases the Lindy posts here. Just but it from Amazon and try it out. If it doesn't work, return it.

ARC/CEC is a [email protected] for lots of folks. Partially because on some systems, they are related so you can't completely disable one without the other. And that's not specific to one mfr either. I don't need ARC because I don't use the internal apps on my panel so I just use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for local HDTV stations only (which is 5.1) instead of ARC and a Harmony remote to control everything instead of CEC.
I use the Lindy with 2 devices that were causing HDMI issues and it works.
 

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There is an Harmony support forum you can ask for assistance and they are quite helpfull. Anyhow, I know their approach and they will tell you not use Simplink, and use toptical. My experience tell you can keep Simplink. The trick, in your case, is to add a delay after the power on, in the power on sequence (a "nop" command is needed after the delay, otherwise the delay is skipped) and adding the switch to CBL/SAT in the activity start sequence). Satr with long delays, and the tune them. If you need more help send me private message, I don't want to bother with stuff out of topic.
Thanks for trying to help. I actually fixed the issue thanks to help from the Hramony thread - there is a setting in the Denon menu for "TV Audio Switching" which was set "on". Turning that off fixed the issue.
 

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Is there an official USA firmware to download?

Have you checked the C8's product page on LG.com ? Direct link below. If there isn't one, the Canadian and Korean websites have the same firmware files that the US website will. There have been links to firmware 05.10.03 in this thread the past few pages, why not download from one of those and be done with it, many of the owners here have done just that.

Product page on the US website:
https://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-OLED65C8PUA-oled-4k-tv


Direct link to the Canadian product firmware version 05.10.03:
http://gscs-b2c.lge.com/downloadFile...2YC0gquJkQv5Cg
 
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All TVs that display HDR have to perform tone-mapping, both for luminances which they can't display, and the wider colours of rec.2020 which they can't display. Since day one. Otherwise if you watched a 4,000 nit movie on a 500 nit display everything above 500 nits would be clipped. For HDR10, there's no standard which dictates how a manufacturer should implement tone mapping. It's the "wild west". Everyone does it differently. For Dolby Vision, there is a standard (Dolby Vision) and this gives content creators confidence on how their work will look.

When doing static tonemapping (in fact all forms of tonemapping), you can EITHER keep the highlight detail, OR the overall brightness. You have to pick ONE because the TV physically cannot display both!

Here's a very good comparison of the different approaches. You will learn a lot from this very entertaining video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt6IflKAmWg

One criticism in the past particularly on low-nit displays is that if there is a single very bright scene in a movie, the rest of the movie can look very dark because the TV tone-maps everything down to make "headroom" for that bright bit.

Dynamic tone mapping, an enhancement built into HDR10+ and Dolby Vision both provide specific data for each scene, instead of a single set of values, so that the TV's tone-mapping algorithm can make better decisions, and doesn't have a whole dark load of stuff just because of one bright scene.

LG's Dynamic tone mapping for HDR10 is a poor man's version of that. It's the TV's guesswork. It analyses the incoming signal "on the fly", without the benefit of knowing what is coming in 1 second or 1 minute's time, and tries to "react" to the signal that is coming in. If it gets it wrong it can make things suddenly bright or dark because it's constantly having to react.

The "HDR Optimiser" function in the Panasonic players is more than just "Dynamic tone mapping". And it does a far better job. Please watch Vincent's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTw_Toh0PzA
I really can't thank you enough for this post. I thought I have done a pretty good job educating myself on all things HDR and 4K but apparently not! I quite simply had no idea Tone Mapping and Dynamic Tone Mapping were two different things. Though now that you have explained it, it makes perfect sense that all displays HAVE to Tone Map.

It's funny you linked those two videos by Vincent because I was just re-watching the latter one when I saw you had replied. I have actually watched both those videos before but want to again with my new understanding.

I'm actually a big fan of Dolby Vision so I know how it works fairly well, and this topic just reminds me why I like it so much. It's just -- for lack of a better word -- simpler for the end-user in my opinion.

I hesitate to say this, but if I am being honest I still don't quite get the difference between the Tone Mapping the TV HAS to do, and the optional Dynamic Tone Mapping you can turn on or off.

Is the standard tone mapping the TV has to do not dynamic?

I thought I had it right in my head for awhile but I am not so sure now. But let me know if this is at all correct:

The Dynamic tone mapping will try to bring the luminance of a disc down to 1000. It does this on the fly and not very well.

Then The TV's standard tone mapping will bring that 1000 down to whatever it can actually handle.

Is that correct at all?
 
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