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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This thread is dedicated to the calibration and user settings for the 2018 LG OLEDs.

The thread will focus on the following:
1) Calibration using the new Calman LG Autocal process which will allow direct manipulation of the sets internal lookup tables.
2) Gray Scale, CMS, Color Volume, HDR Tone Mapping and Luminance accuracy to include 20%, 50%, 75% and 100% scans to see how the set performs overall.
3) Pros and cons of using alternate white points with this specific set.
4) Recommendations, tips, or other productive suggestions on how to properly calibrate this set and overcome any issues.
5) Near black detail, posterization and any other PQ pro's and con's specifically related to calibration.
6) Performance and user settings for SDR, HDR10, Dolby Vision, HLG and Technicolor HDR if it materializes.
7) General discussion of CM Autocal on any new TVs as it relates to comparison with LG's implementation.

The idea of this thread is to encourage contributions from Home Enthusiasts and the Professionals and build a calibration knowledge base with factual, useful information that all can learn from and use as we proceed through the model year. :)

This thread is NOT for comparisons to other OLEDs for purchasing, for complaining about or posting pictures of Banding and or Tinting, posting or sharing calibration settings, unproductive discussion of comparisons of Calman's LG Autocal to Lumigen and or eecolor or any other external box solution or any other calibration software, discussions of any "hack" that has no technical basis.

This is going to be a very exciting model year with LG's new Alpha 9 processor and all of the picture processing improvements they have promised along with the new Calman LG Autocal calibration process :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I finally got my LG C8 from VE and below is my initial impressions of Calman's autocal beta.

With LG Autocal there are two new workflows:
LG TV SDR Calibration and LG TV HDR Calibration.

With the SDR workflow you can autocal the following Picture Modes:
Cinema
Expert Dark
Expert Bright
Technicolor
Game

With the HDR work flow it is split to include HDR10 and Dolby Vision. The first page lets you select with you want to calibrate. You can calibrate the following Picture Modes:
HDR Cinema
HDR Technicolor
HDR Game
Dolby Vision Cinema
Dolby Vision Cinema Home
Dolby Vision Game

The workflows are similar to what we are familiar with but now you need to select the LG TV that you want to connect to in the Display Control Tab and give it the IP address of the TV. From my experience you can hardwire or use Wifi (as long as its not congested) to connect. Once Calman connects, a window on the TV will appear with a Pin number that you need to enter in the Display Control Tab. Once done then Calman has direct access to the TV's internal interface along with your meter and pattern generator as usual.

In the Display Control Tab it will show you are connected to the LG 2018 Alpha9 or Alpha 7 OLED, etc. Under that there are three selections:
Display Mode selection where you select which Picture Mode you want to calibrate like Cinema or Technicolor for example.
Active Grayscale Points where you select LG 26 or LG 42 Gray Scale SDR or HDR calibration.
3D LUT Calibration where it is set to 33 points. (When you get to the CMS layout and start Autocal, a pop-up appears where you can select Matrix, Lightning or the iRP Time or Point Based 3D LUT.)

What's interesting to note is autocal's 26 point gray scale layout does not use the traditional 10 or 20 pt IRE's. It increases the scans in the lower IRE's in an attempt to perfectly calibrate near back so you don't have to "play" with the brightness control any more. Your leave Brightness at the default of 50 and Contrast at 85 and autocal. I can confirm that this does work because when looking at content on the LG next to my A1E, near black details look essentially identical.
The Gray scale for the 26 pt are as follows:
0,3,4,5,7,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55,60,65,70,75,80,85,90,95,99,105,109

Also there is no 2 pt calibration, i guess because it's not needed.

Once everything set up for the 1D Grayscal LUT Calculation in the Display Control Tab, before you start Autocal you need to click the Full DDC Reset button at the bottom of the Display Control Tab. This resets the tables in the TV before you start, initiating Autocal. Then all you do is click the autocal button in the lower right control in the workflow. Calman will then methodically start adjusting all the IRE's. I tried to figure out the high level algorithm from just looking at the process but basically it selects a predetermined route through the gray scale vs starting from 109% and working it's way up from 0% like a traditional calibrator would do. Also when it's working on a specific IRE, it will continue to make adjustments until it's satisfied that it reached it's goal where ever that's set internally. That means you need a pattern generator to generate the patches and can't use patterns from a DVD for example because you don't know which one Calman is going to need.

After a couple of minutes, autocal completes and at that point you can use the DDC controls to make any adjustments. I found that although Autocal did a good job with the grayscale, when you open up the RGB Balance graph scale to look at the details, although the DeltaE is around 2.0, it's not very flat and i had a crazy peak in the gamma at 90% ish. That said i would like to see a feature where the user can select additional scans where autocal can start at 109% and work it's way up from 0% further reducing the errors like i did manually using the DDC controls. It took me about 10 minutes and 2 additional manual scan adjustments to flatten out the graph and reduce the errors to what i would normally do manually.

Once you are done with the Gray Scale then you can check your luminance levels and move on to the 3D LUT (ColorCube) Calibration layout. This Layout is a little confusing because although it has notes about the 3x3 matrix, Lightining and iRP Time or Point Based 3D LUT, you can't select which one you want to use until you start autocal and a pop-up box appears where you can make the selection. I used the Lightning LUT which takes 101 measurements. When the process starts Calman takes many readings and then calculates the LUT and stores it so having a fast meter helps with this process. The only thing that i didn't like was after all the patches were read, Calman leaves a blue patch up while it's making it's calculations. When calibrating HDR you don't want a bright patch left up for all that time. I hope Portrait removes the Blue patch while making the calculations in the next Beta.

After the 3D LUT is performed you can run a Color Checker, Saturation Sweep and final Calibration summary scans as with the usual workflows to verify the work.

Once you are done with Autocal if you want to re-run it again you need to re-click the Full DDC Reset button at the bottom of the Display Control Tab to reset the TV's internal tables and start calibration again.

Calibrating HDR10 and Dolby Vision also worked well but with HDR10 you calibrate the native panel at gamma 2.1 as you do with DV and then the TV applies the Tone Mapping, etc, for HDR. With DV you still need to create a new Configuration file as you do currently but there is a button on that layout which starts the upload once you plug in the thumb drive into the TV. You don't need to go out and into DV PM to initiate the upload like you needed to do on the 2017 LG sets.

As far as the C8's improvements from a calibration standpoint, from my retail sample, the set is amazingly good out of the box but again the gamma will be off if you start changing the OLED light. The traditional user calibration controls are the same as the 2017 sets but Autocal for the average user and the Home Enthusiast with the DDC controls can give you superior results. As for the Pro Calibrators, i think everyone will have their own opinion. I can say that the access to the DDC controls is a huge improvement over the traditional user controls with the remote control. With DDC you are directly manipulating the TV's internal tables bypassing any user layers that may introduce errors or problems.

In looking at familiar content after autocal calibration i was pleasantly surprised that the results looked very good to my eye. I didn't do a deep dive into the content to see if there were any anomalies but i didn't see anything obvious. I'm sure we will get more feedback on this from other users.

Below are my Technicolor and then the DV scans and some screen shots of autocal to give you an idea of the feature.

Update-1: I added my HDR autocal scans. I thought there was a problem but you need to unclick Enable Calibration after you do the gray scale and the CMS Before you try to do the verification scans.
 

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I'm really interested on what post auto-cal tweaks the pros are going to suggest. Thanks for making this thread jrref!
 
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Can someone in the know explain what is required to use AutoCAL? It sounds like to make this work, I'd need to buy a lot of expensive equipment - so probably not worth it for your average person to buy.

Based on reading - you need:

1. CalMAN for Home Enthusiast - $399
2. SpectraCAL C6 - $799
3. VideoForge Pro Pattern Generator - $1495 or VirtualForge - $495 (not sure this will work)

There is a package - for $2495 that saves you a little bit - https://store.portrait.com/promotion/calman-enthusiast-with-spectracal-c6-hdr2000-205.html

But still overall a high price tag to pay to calibrate one TV that costs $3500 (OLED65C8P) at least for me. I can see this being valuable if you have multiple TVs with AutoCAL or maybe a bunch of friends who go in on it together (Not sure if that is allowed with the Home Enthusiast bundle) ... But coming from a Kuro Pro-151FD and using ControlCAL for $60, plus a serial cable this seems a lot more expensive.

Just an idea - does anyone rent the equipment you need + the software for a short term? I'd happily pay $100 to rent everything for a week and send it back since I probably would not use the equipment again after the initial calibration (or maybe I would do it again after a few years).

Maybe AutoCAL isn't for me and I should just wait for D-Nice's settings.
 

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This thread is dedicated to the calibration and user settings for the 2018 LG OLEDs.

The thread will focus on the following:
1) Calibration using the new Calman LG Autocal process which will allow direct manipulation of the sets internal lookup tables.
2) Gray Scale, CMS, Color Volume, HDR Tone Mapping and Luminance accuracy to include 20%, 50%, 75% and 100% scans to see how the set performs overall.
3) Pros and cons of using alternate white points with this specific set.
4) Recommendations, tips, or other productive suggestions on how to properly calibrate this set and overcome any issues.
5) Near black detail, posterization and any other PQ pro's and con's specifically related to calibration.
6) Performance and user settings for SDR, HDR10, Dolby Vision, HLG and Technicolor HDR if it materializes.

The idea of this thread is to encourage contributions from Home Enthusiasts and the Professionals and build a calibration knowledge base with factual, useful information that all can learn from and use as we proceed through the model year. :)

This thread is NOT for... posting or sharing calibration settings,....:rolleyes:
It's that LAST sentence that gave me the feeling that this thread will be uber exclusionary. Did you really mean to say this? And no, I do NOT think it was out of context. C'mon now !
 

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@LiQiCE but you could borrow or rent it? This thread will be useful to see how far letting auto-cal do it thing gets you. Maybe it is like 98% of what a professional can do. (maybe better than what can happen in a few hour visit?) There are some really cool options in it that will take a TON of time. For example, calibrating HDR the screen can get hot which might cause some shifts in the color. Auto-cal can show a color, take a reading, then wait for 5 sec for the screen to cool, then take another reading. This process could take hours! D-Nice isn't going to sit in your hours for 5-6 hours per-HDR calibration. (HD10, DV, gaming, etc..) That said, maybe letting the screen cool doesn't really change the end results... But we will see.
 

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Can’t you use a cheaper meter like an iDisplay Pro?

And patterns can be generated from a BD disc or that mobile app that Calman has that I believe is free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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@LiQiCE but you could borrow or rent it? This thread will be useful to see how far letting auto-cal do it thing gets you. Maybe it is like 98% of what a professional can do. (maybe better than what can happen in a few hour visit?) There are some really cool options in it that will take a TON of time. For example, calibrating HDR the screen can get hot which might cause some shifts in the color. Auto-cal can show a color, take a reading, then wait for 5 sec for the screen to cool, then take another reading. This process could take hours! D-Nice isn't going to sit in your hours for 5-6 hours per-HDR calibration. (HD10, DV, gaming, etc..) That said, maybe letting the screen cool doesn't really change the end results... But we will see.
Yeah I am hoping there will be a market for renting all of the equipment and software you need, especially if you can set it up, let it run for a few hours to calibrate and then send it back. Like I said originally - for ~$100, I would be happy to rent everything for a week or something.
 

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jjref.. I just preordered... will be looking in here at you guys findings and posts, this year, based on the AutoCal feature, it should be "technically" exciting.
 
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
It's that LAST sentence that gave me the feeling that this thread will be uber exclusionary. Did you really mean to say this? And no, I do NOT think it was out of context. C'mon now !
User settings such as OLED, Contrast, Brightness, Trumotion etc.. are OK to post as they relate to calibration but NOT 2pt, 21pt and CMS settings since they are specific for each panel and as discussed "over and over" using another panel's settings statistically will make the panel look worse and has nothing to do with properly calibrating your set, sorry.

If you want to share and post calibration settings, feel free to start a separate thread on that topic.

Please no more discussion on this topic again. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
As far as equipment needed for autocal, based on what i currently know, and i haven't used autocal yet, you probably can calibrate SDR PM's as long as you have a meter, any meter that works with Calman, and a pattern generator that connects to your PC and is controlled by Calman such as MobileForge which is the least expensive. I'm "guessing" you won't be able to use a DVD disk pattern arrangement. For HDR and Dolby Vision, you will need a more expensive solution, like Virtual Forge, Murideo or the PC arrangement that Tyler came up with that he can elaborate on.

Tyler can you re-post the PC HDR pattern generation solution here so we have it as a reference and add any comments to equipment needed for autocal :)

Also if it turns out that renting or purchasing the calibration equipment becomes too expensive for your specific needs, if Autocal works as advertised, and i have high confidence that it will, the fact you can manipulate the set's internal look up tables, is supposed to yield better results and hopefully a noticeably better picture vs the User controls which are often limited. That said, if you decide to get a professional calibration because it's better for your specific case, Calman's LG Autocal should enable the professional calibrator to give you a better result.

We will have to see if this is the case once we try the product and this is part of what this thread is all about.

I hope this helps :)
 

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As far as equipment needed for autocal, based on what i currently know, and i haven't used autocal yet, you probably can calibrate SDR PM's as long as you have a meter, any meter that works with Calman, and a pattern generator that connects to your PC and is controlled by Calman such as MobileForge which is the least expensive. I'm "guessing" you won't be able to use a DVD disk pattern arrangement. For HDR and Dolby Vision, you will need a more expensive solution, like Virtual Forge, Murideo or the PC arrangement that Tyler came up with that he can elaborate on.



Tyler can you re-post the PC HDR pattern generation solution here so we have it as a reference and add any comments to equipment needed for autocal :)



Also if it turns out that renting or purchasing the calibration equipment becomes too expensive for your specific needs, if Autocal works as advertised, and i have high confidence that it will, the fact you can manipulate the set's internal look up tables, is supposed to yield better results and hopefully a noticeably better picture vs the User controls which are often limited. That said, if you decide to get a professional calibration because it's better for your specific case, Calman's LG Autocal should enable the professional calibrator to give you a better result.



We will have to see if this is the case once we try the product and this is part of what this thread is all about.



I hope this helps :)


For SDR any CalMAN controllable pattern generator that supports RGB triplets will work.

For HDR10/HLG any CalMAN controllable HDR10 compatible pattern source will work (including HDfury setups to inject metadata)

For Dolby Vision you can use the VideoForge Pro, Murideo six-G, Or CalMAN’s pop out pattern window with a PC HDMI output (w/ certain GPUs) + HDFury to inject the Dolby Vision VSIF.


Even if you don’t want to use our autoCAL algorithms for grayscale, you can still use the DDC controls to tweak the grayscale manually yourself.

For SDR and HDR10/HLG The color gamut is controlled with 3D look up tables.

Dolby Vision still uses the custom DV config file to tell the DV engine what the actual performance of the panel is, then their color volume mapping is adjusted to that specific panel’s peak brightness/native primaries.

We will be posting tutorial videos to our YouTube page very soon.

Tyler
 

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@WiFi-Spy How do we get a copy of calman with the LG auto-cal? Do we need to sign up to a beta or something? (I remember reading someplace that because the timing doesn't match with calman's normal release pattern this will be "beta" till then.)

also, soooo i assume any card that can game in HDR can do the calibration in HDR too.. ugh.. I guess i wasted money getting the pattern gen.. blah :p
 

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User settings such as OLED, Contrast, Brightness, Trumotion etc.. are OK to post as they relate to calibration but NOT 2pt, 21pt and CMS settings since they are specific for each panel and as discussed "over and over" using another panel's settings statistically will make the panel look worse and has nothing to do with properly calibrating your set, sorry.



If you want to share and post calibration settings, feel free to start a separate thread on that topic.



Please no more discussion on this topic again. :)


Not to mention, if 1d and 3d lut are done internally, those that go by the AutoCal method probably won’t have 21pt settings to even share?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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We have posted beta 1 of CalMAN 2018 in the forums on SpectraCal.com. Beta 2 is coming very soon.

Anybody with a license and current All Access can download it and use it.


Settings via DDC will use the internal controls right? If you using autocal the settings are hardware based?
 

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@WiFi-Spy
also, soooo i assume any card that can game in HDR can do the calibration in HDR too.. ugh.. I guess i wasted money getting the pattern gen.. blah :p
Nope. Unless the TV will accept SDR patterns for the underlying HDR 3D LUT calibration, you will still need a pattern generator that can produce HDR patterns, or an HDFury to inject the metadata and infoframe along with a way to produce RGB SDR patterns (pat gen, vid card, etc.). Simply having an HDR-compatible video card isn't enough. Keep your pattern generator!
 

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Hi,

what about Mobile Forge beeing connected to an Apple TV 4K which itself is beeing switched to forced DV/HDR mode? Will this allow proper calibration of DV and HDR? As I recently paid for a meter plus the software, spending even more on a hardware pattern generator won‘t be possible.

Thanks, Rob.:)
 
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