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If so, who doesn't have any service remote should they use a full field pattern insertion 20% to defeat ASBL?

And who doesn't have any spectro reference to use a LCD LED generic profile as well, is this what are you suggesting?
 

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Hi,

based on your suggestions I now performed a new attempt to Autocal HDR10 on my C8. I reduced the pattern delay time, also reduced the intergration time of my meter, and I changed the pattern insertion amount to 0%. All this did not really help for me. But I found an other setting regarding my Linker, it was set to output RGB 16-235, I changed to RGB 0-255 and the odd patterns at and below 15% were gone...



Okay, one problem solved. Now I had success in 1D LUT calibration which went through flawlessly. But, as the post-cal verfication shows, the luminance seems off.



Additionally, 3D LUT (Matrix LUT as recommended in the workflow) oversaturated all colors.



My guess is, that the target colorspace might be wrong. Maybe I should choose D65,P3 instead? Additionally, is the target EOTF correct?



Thanks, Robert
 

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Hi,

were you able to resolve this Problem? I tried HDR10 Autocal with the i1Display pro and the Videoforge HDMI / HDFury Linker today for the first time and ran into exactly the same issue. Autocal fails due to odd blueish patterns. This whole Autocal thing seems to be a very sensitive case, at least for the beginner... Any other thoughts? Thanks.

Robert
I did get it resolved. I ended up deleting Calman and re installed it on my computer. Once I re ran the hdr tracked like normal. Not sure what the issue was but that worked for me. Good luck!
 

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Supplement to my last post, should I have hit Autocal in this screen, I see it is not grayed out?



My knowledge would definitely benefit from the video walkthroughs Tyler announced. Not clear to me what happens in HDR/DV workflows yet.

Thanks, Robert
 
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I think most of the problems that people are having are related to ABSL.

I highly recommend buying an LG service remote or programming a Harmony so you can shut it off during calibration.

ABSL Works by detecting APL changes. That is why I suggested 20% pattern insertion so it resets ABSL.

Also configuring your meter for a five second exposure for low light handler, probably causes a problem with the pattern insertion that is also set to 5 second interval.

Tyler
Hi,

based on your suggestions I now performed a new attempt to Autocal HDR10 on my C8. I reduced the pattern delay time, also reduced the intergration time of my meter, and I changed the pattern insertion amount to 0%. All this did not really help for me. But I found an other setting regarding my Linker, it was set to output RGB 16-235, I changed to RGB 0-255 and the odd patterns at and below 15% were gone...



Okay, one problem solved. Now I had success in 1D LUT calibration which went through flawlessly. But, as the post-cal verfication shows, the luminance seems off.



Additionally, 3D LUT (Matrix LUT as recommended in the workflow) oversaturated all colors.



My guess is, that the target colorspace might be wrong. Maybe I should choose D65,P3 instead? Additionally, is the target EOTF correct?



Thanks, Robert

Bravo! Now you have a full range output from your pattern generator and your linker that's right?

Another really important thing. I don't know Mobile VideoForge which kind of output signal it is, but in my pattern Generator is a "truly" RGB FULL (0-255) Then under CalMAN the triplets for example SDR mode are limited 16-235 properly set.

So make sure your generator is properly set on RGB full as well.
 

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According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.
 

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According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.
Good... Now remain the "question" why those insane higher luminances and saturstion dE's to find out a solution. Really weird :eek:

Edit:

I forgot to ask you about which display profile did you use for create XYZ matrix corrections WRGB under HDR mode?
 

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Good... Now remain the "question" why those insane higher luminances and saturstion dE's to find out a solution. Really weird :eek:

Edit:

I forgot to ask you about which display profile did you use for create XYZ matrix corrections WRGB under HDR mode?
Do you mean that I must profile my meter again for HDR? I just used the correction matrix I created w/ my i1Pro in SDR mode.
 
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Good... Now remain the "question" why those insane higher luminances and saturstion dE's to find out a solution. Really weird :eek:

Edit:

I forgot to ask you about which display profile did you use for create XYZ matrix corrections WRGB under HDR mode?
Can you show us a simple readings of your HDR10 C8 without running Autocal? In few words the Technicolor at defaults settings...

This ones are mine from my B6 at defaults values:

The profile it was made under RAW ZYX display type.







P.S: Another question: which color gamut do you choose on your C8 Technicolor picture mode? It seems like your CalMAN 18 release are showing differents targets points too, in comparison with last 17 R2 version...:confused:
Tone mapping or dynamic tone mapping is also disable?
 

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Do you mean that I must profile my meter again for HDR? I just used the correction matrix I created w/ my i1Pro in SDR mode.
Teorically yes because WRGB coordinates in HDR10 mode are a bit different vs SDR mode. Anyways there is something wrong in your CalMAN settings or somewhere else because those dE's are definitely wired.
 
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According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.
If I remember correctly, the Linker can upscale resolution, but not change colorspace. It is merely sending info in the HDR infoframe that Bt.2020 is part of the signal so the TV maps the RGB triplets to 2020.

The Integral can send the same infoframe with the same result at the TV, and it is in no way, shape, or form a scaler.
 

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According to the Linker GUI my generator sends RGB 0-255 BT.709, the linker outputs RGB 0-255 BT.2020 for HDR10.


Can we see your CalMAN source tab to see how you have the VF HDMI pattern generator configured?

I think there’s a levels Mismatch somewhere in your setup.

I will be making video tutorials this week starting with SDR.

The HDR calibration process on the 2018 LG’s is very similar to the Dolby Vision calibration process on the 2017 models. We are calibrating the panel in Gamma mode with the HDR mapping turned off.

I would also highly suggest buying the service remote to disable the ABSL During calibration and then re-enabling it after you’re done.

The remote is only $12 on Amazon or you can program a Harmony remote If you already have one. You need to access the command called “in start”

Tyler
 

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If I remember correctly, the Linker can upscale resolution, but not change colorspace. It is merely sending info in the HDR infoframe that Bt.2020 is part of the signal so the TV maps the RGB triplets to 2020.

The Integral can send the same infoframe with the same result at the TV, and it is in no way, shape, or form a scaler.
As I wrote in here I was not able to switch my TV into HDR10/BT2020 mode properly using my integral, so I invested even more money in the linker which seems to work.
 
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As I wrote in here I was not able to switch my TV into HDR10/BT2020 mode properly using my integral, so I invested even more money in the linker which seems to work.
I'm willing to bet that if you compared the AVI data that both the Integral and the Linker were actually sending in your setup, that you'd find there's a difference somewhere. In fact, if you look at the pictures you posted of the Integral GUI, below the box for "Custom AVI IF", there is an example of what data must be sent to force the TV into the BT2020 Color Space. It isn't what is in the box itself.

As I mentioned, the Linker cannot change the color space - that info is straight from the folks at HDFury. That capability requires additional hardware and processing that the Linker simply doesn't have.
 

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Can we see your CalMAN source tab to see how you have the VF HDMI pattern generator configured?

I think there’s a levels Mismatch somewhere in your setup.

I will be making video tutorials this week starting with SDR.

The HDR calibration process on the 2018 LG’s is very similar to the Dolby Vision calibration process on the 2017 models. We are calibrating the panel in Gamma mode with the HDR mapping turned off.

I would also highly suggest buying the service remote to disable the ABSL During calibration and then re-enabling it after you’re done.

The remote is only $12 on Amazon or you can program a Harmony remote If you already have one. You need to access the command called “in start”

Tyler
Please refer to the settings I posted here: post56109714 with modifications posted here: post56113240

BTW I just ordered the remote. I think its remarkable that one would need a hidden menu setting to properly utilize an officially advertised feature ... and does using it void my warranty?
Additionally, many of the problems could be solved if each workflow in Calman would automatically suggest valid settings like gamma target, color space, pattern settings, ... and regarding LG autocal, I think LG/SpectraCal missed the chance to provide a built-in pattern generator, some kind of Calman Client app built into the TV, automatically switching the set into the right mode (including ABSL) and showing the desired patterns. To be honest, I start to regret spending so much money as I do not have so much time fiddling around with TV calibration ... but I am still willing to learn and keep on my try and error research. And thanks for all the input so far..

Robert
 
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I'm willing to bet that if you compared the AVI data that both the Integral and the Linker were actually sending in your setup, that you'd find there's a difference somewhere. In fact, if you look at the pictures you posted of the Integral GUI, below the box for "Custom AVI IF", there is an example of what data must be sent to force the TV into the BT2020 Color Space. It isn't what is in the box itself.

As I mentioned, the Linker cannot change the color space - that info is straight from the folks at HDFury. That capability requires additional hardware and processing that the Linker simply doesn't have.
There are two approaches to control the integral, in the post you are referring to, I used the Calman direct control. So in the moment I turn on HDR10 in Calman the Integral should send the right Regardless what is written in the box. At least the guide Spectracal provides does not mention that one must change this box.
The other approach is to use AvTopController and copy/paste the IF and metadata Calman generates to the integral GUI. I tried both with no success.
Now it seems to turn out that the linker simply cannot output the right colorspace, although the TV switches to it. I cannot justify spending so much money on the VideoForge Pro, not to me, nor to my wife. Getting more and more frustated.
 

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There are two approaches to control the integral, in the post you are referring to, I used the Calman direct control. So in the moment I turn on HDR10 in Calman the Integral should send the right Regardless what is written in the box. At least the guide Spectracal provides does not mention that one must change this box.
The other approach is to use AvTopController and copy/paste the IF and metadata Calman generates to the integral GUI. I tried both with no success.
Now it seems to turn out that the linker simply cannot output the right colorspace, although the TV switches to it. I cannot justify spending so much money on the VideoForge Pro, not to me, nor to my wife. Getting more and more frustated.
I understand that you are frustrated. Calibration - even with an autocal routine - can be complicated even on sets that only can do SDR. Add in HDR and the peculiarities of OLED, and it's even worse.

I still believe you had issues with your initial setup of the Integral, or perhaps you got a defective one (try posting on the Integral thread in the Video Processors section about your issue). I own the Integral, Linker, and Vertex, and have successfully used both the Integral - with the GUI, with AVTop Controller software, and within CalMAN - and Linker for HDR calibration of my Samsung KS. All 3 will send the correct metadata to put a TV into HDR mode if properly set up. I don't have an LG 8-series OLED, so cannot see for myself what CalMAN's routine automatically sets the Integral to. It's doubtful that it does, since every pattern generator source I've used with CalMAN has to be set by the user for certain things (resolution, bit depth, etc.). But anything you change or improperly set in the dropdown menus will be reflected in what is sent to the TV.
 

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I understand that you are frustrated. Calibration - even with an autocal routine - can be complicated even on sets that only can do SDR. Add in HDR and the peculiarities of OLED, and it's even worse.

I still believe you had issues with your initial setup of the Integral, or perhaps you got a defective one (try posting on the Integral thread in the Video Processors section about your issue). I own the Integral, Linker, and Vertex, and have successfully used both the Integral - with the GUI, with AVTop Controller software, and within CalMAN - and Linker for HDR calibration of my Samsung KS. All 3 will send the correct metadata to put a TV into HDR mode if properly set up. I don't have an LG 8-series OLED, so cannot see for myself what CalMAN's routine automatically sets the Integral to. It's doubtful that it does, since every pattern generator source I've used with CalMAN has to be set by the user for certain things (resolution, bit depth, etc.). But anything you change or improperly set in the dropdown menus will be reflected in what is sent to the TV.
My frustation is not your fault, nor is it the fault of the other forum members, of course. I posted screenshots of all my settings previously and I am willing to set things by hand (although Autocal suggests you wouldˋt have to), I know my settings must be wrong but I cannot figure out which ones. Calman and especially LG Autocal workflows lack of documentation and background information to enable new users like me to perform proper calibration after some reading.
 

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My frustation is not your fault, nor is it the fault of the other forum members, of course. I posted screenshots of all my settings previously and I am willing to set things by hand (although Autocal suggests you wouldˋt have to), I know my settings must be wrong but I cannot figure out which ones. Calman and especially LG Autocal workflows lack of documentation and background information to enable new users like me to perform proper calibration after some reading.
I apologize for the lack of documentation. We are currently working on it and working on tutorial videos for the LG integration with CalMAN. We tried to be as explicit as possible in the LG workflows themselves, however we understand everyone doesn't have the same calibration equipment, which can cause the configuration needed to be different.

Most of the issues seem to be ABSL related. in SDR the pattern insertion is used to defeat the ABSL algorithm, in HDR it needs to keep the panel cool, and defeat the ABSL algorithm. It seems like the recommend configuration isn't working for everyone, so that will need to be revised, but for the time being, the easiest thing for people to eliminate that as the cause of their issues, would be to temporarily disable ABSL in the service menu during calibration (something that most pro calibrators have been doing for years on LG OLEDs). Then to re-enable it after calibration.

I will try to replicate your exact setup - VF HDMI + HDFURY Integral (I only have an Integral and Vertex) + i1 Display Pro - and see if I can figure out what is going wrong.

Tyler
 
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