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Discussion Starter #581
Thank you for your answer @BlackJoker, but I was more interested in how it comes that you achieve better results on eecolor with normal color gamut. On my Kuro it's the exact opposite. So, I guess, it is the LG TV electronics that mess things up. Does this occur even on Sony/Panasonic TV? Anyone? D-Nice? ...by the way, where's D-Nice?!
I spoke to him last week and he's busy working, which is good! :)
 
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Discussion Starter #582
Just keep in mind even when calibrating manually, the 100% CMS on the LG is always a little oversaturated. Also remember it's always best to reduce or attenuate a RGB value vs increasing it because when you lower the value you are attenuating what's there vs increasing, the color circuitry has to "make-up" the increase which can lead to artifacts, etc....
 

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Ok, so I'm getting a little frustrated. After running 3DLUT runs all day yesterday, none of them seem to have an effect (or at least the correct effect) on the LG.

Saturation is still WAY to high and out of gamut. It looks like its still in native gamut or something, not Rec709.

I just want to calibrate for regular SDR Rec709.

Using a Klien K10A with offsets custom built for this display using a PR670 spectro, Latest version of Calman Ultimate, Latest firmware on the LGC8. Pattern Gen is DaVinci resolve.

It almost seems like the LUT isn't being applied. I have tried unplugging the TV many times, and still not success.

Images of the wrong color gamut attached.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Another one ..... do you know the song from Khaled :)

Did you unchecked the box "enable calibration" before you did the verification scans?
 
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BTW I also encountered the 3D LUT problem leaving each color way oversaturated. That could be frustating after 1500+ scans you had to wait for. Had Calman perform a 101 point 3D scan and left it. In the end I want to watch TV in the best PQ possible with calibration, but I want to watch and not to fiddle with calibration nearly every evening. Ask my wife thought 🙂 🙂
 

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The color space Coverage of 105-107% means that the internal points are not align with the points CalMAN is uploading to the TV.
Hi,

You can use LightSpace and 'Active LUT' capability, to see if the problem you guys have found with post-verification of 105-107% REC.709 coverage... is responsible a mismatch or internal alignment issue/processing when a 3D LUT is loaded inside to the display.

You have to start by skipping the 1D LUT calibration and perform only 3D LUT, at the end... after loading the correction from CalMAN inside to the TV...use LightSpace and start measuring 100% Saturation sweep (or Quick Profile of Primary/Secondary colors...which is including 20-Point Luminance Sweep with 100% Saturation) with your display having an active 3D LUT from CalMAN loaded to the TV Internally.



..then reset the TV and go again to LightSpace, now locate the 3D LUT File CalMAN sends to your display, to locate that file looking inside to these folders:

''C:\Users\[your name here]\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMAN 5 Home Theater\LUTs'' or ''C:\Users\[your name here]\Documents\SpectraCal\CalMAN 5 for Business\LUTs''




for a ''LG0_SJ9500_xxxxxxx.3dl'' file....load it to LightSpace as ''Active LUT''... and LightSpace will load your 3D LUT values and modify the patch generator colors based to your CalMAN LUT values, this is a procedure they performing a lot in post-production to verify that kind of stuff....so you can load any external 3D LUT file you want... which is ideal for LUT checking before uploading into a display or external 3D LUT box, to locate easier where is the issue... to the setup/hardware or level or internal processing etc.

With that way, you can verify (without having bought any external 3D LUT Box) how your display will perform after the 3D LUT display characterization. You will perform a 3D LUT profiling and then generate and load as Active LUT your 3D LUT file... and take the post-verification measurements. This is not a new feature of LightSpace, its added before about 9 years.
 

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I spoke to him last week and he's busy working, which is good! :)
Absolutely good but we started to miss him. lol
@D-Nice: DeWayne, take a break! lol
 

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Are all HDR worthless other than technicolor? All the others are a hot mess .(ie, game, cinema). -25 to +25
that said, it seems i can only get a run in technicolor HDR like 2 out of 10 times. It is super screw up too.
I have the all calman setup too. Nothing funky here. c6 and VF pro.

The SDR autocal stuff seems fine.

i'm still unlcear if saved LUTs are per-PM or per-PM/input. (or if per-PM is that only for LUT and not greyscale?)
For gaming it looks like one still has to use "PC" - but gaming SDR and HDR PMs are stunningly bad.
 

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Are all HDR worthless other than technicolor? All the others are a hot mess .(ie, game, cinema). -25 to +25

that said, it seems i can only get a run in technicolor HDR like 2 out of 10 times. It is super screw up too.

I have the all calman setup too. Nothing funky here. c6 and VF pro.



The SDR autocal stuff seems fine.



i'm still unlcear if saved LUTs are per-PM or per-PM/input. (or if per-PM is that only for LUT and not greyscale?)

For gaming it looks like one still has to use "PC" - but gaming SDR and HDR PMs are stunningly bad.


Are you talking about the HDR gray scale calibration?
 

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Are you talking about the HDR gray scale calibration?
for all wacky? yes, HDR gray scale calibration - in technicolor, sometimes, it works as expect. But for the other modes i tried it was just one huge wave. With the left -25 and the right +25.
I spend hours on it today. "hey maybe i screwed up some settings .. let me look at technicolor PM again.. nope.. that is fine. But cinema is the wave. (and gaming too .. but autocal support for that might not be there.)

explicit document for this would be great. the conflicting msg in the templates aren't super helpful. (like on one page it say LCD/OLED use APL 18, but on the next it says LCD use APL 18 and OLED uses 10%)
Yes, there are a lot of combos of equipment. But at least there should be something for an all spectracal products setup.
 

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for all wacky? yes, HDR gray scale calibration - in technicolor, sometimes, it works as expect. But for the other modes i tried it was just one huge wave. With the left -25 and the right +25.

I spend hours on it today. "hey maybe i screwed up some settings .. let me look at technicolor PM again.. nope.. that is fine. But cinema is the wave. (and gaming too .. but autocal support for that might not be there.)



explicit document for this would be great. the conflicting msg in the templates aren't super helpful. (like on one page it say LCD/OLED use APL 18, but on the next it says LCD use APL 18 and OLED uses 10%)

Yes, there are a lot of combos of equipment. But at least there should be something for an all spectracal products setup.


Are you using 5, 5, 20% pattern insertion with 10% patterns?
 

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Are you using 5, 5, 20% pattern insertion with 10% patterns?
I was using 5, 5, 15% and 10% patterns. Should i be using 20%?



Should this be happening? During greyscale LUT - should the screen be changing colors? I'm not talking about the what pattern, but the edge of the TV.

That said, it is on "PC"... but something is breaking the black around it. It only does that at sub 30%. It changes from blue, to red, to grey to a swampy green.

(see attached)
 

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Ok, so I'm getting a little frustrated. After running 3DLUT runs all day yesterday, none of them seem to have an effect (or at least the correct effect) on the LG.



Saturation is still WAY to high and out of gamut. It looks like its still in native gamut or something, not Rec709.



I just want to calibrate for regular SDR Rec709.



Using a Klien K10A with offsets custom built for this display using a PR670 spectro, Latest version of Calman Ultimate, Latest firmware on the LGC8. Pattern Gen is DaVinci resolve.



It almost seems like the LUT isn't being applied. I have tried unplugging the TV many times, and still not success.



Images of the wrong color gamut attached.



Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Try unplugging the tv, then hold the power button on the tv for 20 seconds. Then plug the tv back in and turn on. I’ve had that issue too. I swear the autocal either works really well or not at all. Was actually planning on doing a manual calibration soon just to get things squared away how I like them


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Now that Bias lighting its doing wonders with my oled(goodbye eye strain!!!) should l calibrate to a more proper gamma of PLG2.2 to compensate the more "bright" room or should l stick with my bt1886 calibration???

as a side note, a proper calibrated gamma of 2.2 do wonders on this oleds, and they look more similar what HDR shows.
 

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I just purchased a C8 last week, and although it looks great, I can tell that the colors are slightly off and I'm unable to make it acceptable using the settings provided by the TV itself. Reading through every post in this thread is my first time seeing anything about real display calibration, and it looks very interesting.

I apologize for the extremely newbie question, but if I wanted to be able to use autocal myself, what all would I need to purchase? I've seen that in general you need a meter, a pattern generator, and the CalMAN software itself. But I've also seen references to other devices, such as the HD Fury Linker and the Integral, but I don't know their purpose. After googling around a bit, I've also seen that these devices can be very pricey. I'm not looking to get 100% accurate colors, but I do want my PQ to be improved. Is it possible to build out a relatively affordable tool chain to get good results with autocal?
 

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Congrats for your new C8. IMO the best TV you can own at the moment (I own one :rolleyes:). Yes you got it right, you need the software, plus a meter (the i1Display is just fine), plus a pattern generator (look for MobileForge first, this seems to be the cheapest way to do SDR calibration). If you want to do HDR be prepared to buy a hardware pattern generator (Videoforge HDMI is sold on Ebay) and the HDFury Integral and you must bring a lot of patience. The latter one leads the TV to believe the VideoForge HDMI (which can only output SDR) outputs HDR patterns by injecting the needed metadata to the HDMI videostream. Ah, I forgot that if you want to go for Dolby Vision, you need a Laptop with Intel graphics to generate the pattern. Or you drop in the money for the Videoforge Pro, which can do SDR, HDR10 and Dolby Vision. Did I mention you would want a Spectro like the i1Pro(2) in order to profile your meter. Still here? Yes, Calibration is indeed a very interesting task for the videophile or the technical enthusiast who wants to get to the bottom of things. If you are one of these guys, carry on, but at the moment I would not recommend for a newbie to get on the Autocal train, because this is what I am and this is what I did. My experience is ... well you would need a lot of patience in order to get things working. Due to the many flaws it might be a bumpy ride and there is the possibility that you might be thrown off or leave voluntarily. Bring money, time and be eager to learn. Just my opinion.

In addition to this thread, I might suggest going to the threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2973344-videoforge-hdmi-hdfury-integral-hdr10.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2965096-lg-2017-oled-dolby-vision-calibration.html
 

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I was using 5, 5, 15% and 10% patterns. Should i be using 20%?



Should this be happening? During greyscale LUT - should the screen be changing colors? I'm not talking about the what pattern, but the edge of the TV.

That said, it is on "PC"... but something is breaking the black around it. It only does that at sub 30%. It changes from blue, to red, to grey to a swampy green.

(see attached)
Some of us, including me, have seen those spurious patterns in the past. For me it was a wrong setting with Video vs. PC so try setting 16-235 instead of 0-255. Might work.
 

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I just purchased a C8 last week, and although it looks great, I can tell that the colors are slightly off and I'm unable to make it acceptable using the settings provided by the TV itself. Reading through every post in this thread is my first time seeing anything about real display calibration, and it looks very interesting.



I apologize for the extremely newbie question, but if I wanted to be able to use autocal myself, what all would I need to purchase? I've seen that in general you need a meter, a pattern generator, and the CalMAN software itself. But I've also seen references to other devices, such as the HD Fury Linker and the Integral, but I don't know their purpose. After googling around a bit, I've also seen that these devices can be very pricey. I'm not looking to get 100% accurate colors, but I do want my PQ to be improved. Is it possible to build out a relatively affordable tool chain to get good results with autocal?


Safe your money as you can read here are a lot of problems that need to be solved and we get no answers at all. If you want a accurate picture just use the Technicolor preset for SDR and HDR.

Im going to post my results from yesterday which aren't good at all. My overall conclusion now is that the 3D LUT shouldn't be used at the moment and Im not saying that because of a YouTube video from Vincent I'm saying that because I see serious problems.

My post will follow shortly.
 
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Now that Bias lighting its doing wonders with my oled(goodbye eye strain!!!) should l calibrate to a more proper gamma of PLG2.2 to compensate the more "bright" room or should l stick with my bt1886 calibration???

as a side note, a proper calibrated gamma of 2.2 do wonders on this oleds, and they look more similar what HDR shows.
Not sure why you say 2.2 is "proper" when BT1886 is now actually the standard. But, BT1886 is very similar to old gamma of 2.4 so personally I use BT1886 for a "dark room" and yes, old gamma 2.2 for a "bright room" (daytime with the lights on). I don't know that just adding bias lighting makes the room "bright" enough to justify changing the gamma though, which I now realise was your question.
 

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Like promised here are my thoughts after my last calibration run with the latest CalMAN version.

The Grayscale AutoCAL run was finished after 16 minutes with a dE threshold of 0.5 and I can't see any difference to 0.2 threshold which needs 42 minutes. So the extra time isn't worth it.



After the the roll out I manually adjust the top end in a couple of minutes and two red series because they were a bit off and so I also was able to get rid of the bump at the 90s IRE



Then I started the 3D LUT with 1100p which took a bit more than 60 minutes



I recently checked the sweeps grayscale etc. and I had again the problem that the internal points are not align with points that CM upload which ended up in 107% gamut coverage which causes many problems especially with real content. Because nice looking charts don't telling the truth at all and they aren't even good looking check the chroma at 100% saturation



Here the Coverage



Just to be clear I unplugged the TV holder the power button for 20 seconds with no success. The points aren't aligned and everyone here has the same problem and nothing happens I can't understand that! This software isn't cheap and I want a reaction and the promise that these things get resolved this is a scam to the customers who brought this TV because of the calibration capabilities.

Tyler you can ignore me and my questions of course but everyone who is using this have these frustrating problems I'm really curious how long portrait display will ignoring there customers.

This is the normal gamut of the cinema mode



I think I said enough everyone who want accurate picture and also safe a lot of money and time just use the Technicolor presets they are pretty good OOTB. Don't waste your time like I did you get ignored and nothing happens. They should give the reward from the CES back for their innovating 3D LUT AutoCal feature

 
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