AVS Forum banner

7261 - 7280 of 11232 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,540 Posts
Also, are you willing to share your settings? I am still in search of some good settings for HDR/SDR games and movies.
  • Picture
  • (Mode HDR+)
  • Expert Settings
  • Backlight 34
  • Brightness 0
  • Contrast 30
  • Sharpness 5 (UHD) 20 (HD)
  • Color 12
  • Tint 0
  • Local Dimming High
  • Contrast Enhancer Off
  • HDR+ Mode ON
  • Color Tone Standard (SDR)
  • Color Tone Warm1 (HDR)
  • BT.1886 1
  • HLG 3
  • ST.2084 3
  • Color Space Settings Auto
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Check the Rtngs review of the Z9F. Technically it is a VA panel but Sony is using a technology they call "X Wide Viewing Angle" which improves viewing angles (as IPS panels do) but at the expense of contrast ratio (as IPS panels do). The net effect is that it does a half ass job on both viewing angle and contrast, hence the term "hybrid IPS". At the price level for a Z9F, I don't know of too many owners who would be willing to accept the compromised black levels but to each their own.
I use IPS monitors every day (NEC, EIZO) so I am pretty well acquainted with the technology. Although deep blacks are nice, I think I'd be willing to make a degree of sacrifice in order to move past the Q9FN's dreadful SDE. The black crush and motion processing are also disappointing for a model that is positioned by Samsung as a flagship consumer TV.

Maybe I will contact Samsung and try for a better panel with less SDE (Samsung should be embarrassed). This TV has the potential to be great, and the upscaling really is outstanding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
I use IPS monitors every day (NEC, EIZO) so I am pretty well acquainted with the technology. Although deep blacks are nice, I think I'd be willing to make a degree of sacrifice in order to move past the Q9FN's dreadful SDE. The black crush and motion processing are also disappointing for a model that is positioned by Samsung as a flagship consumer TV.

Maybe I will contact Samsung and try for a better panel with less SDE (Samsung should be embarrassed). This TV has the potential to be great, and the upscaling really is outstanding.
I assume you mean DSE (dirty screen effect). Regardless, there are other options out there that do not compromise contrast (such as the Sony 900F)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Also, are you willing to share your settings? I am still in search of some good settings for HDR/SDR games and movies.
  • Picture
  • (Mode HDR+)
  • Expert Settings
  • Backlight 40
  • Contrast 21
  • Sharpness 10
  • Color 22
  • Tint 0
  • Local Dimming High
  • Contrast Enhancer Off
  • HDR+ Mode ON
  • Color Tone Standard
  • BT.1886 1
  • HLG 3
  • ST.2084 0
  • Color Space Settings Native
And that's for watching movies on BR, Netflix etc?

For some reason I can't enable the HDR+ setting. I assume when watching actual HDR content you disable it though, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
I use IPS monitors every day (NEC, EIZO) so I am pretty well acquainted with the technology. Although deep blacks are nice, I think I'd be willing to make a degree of sacrifice in order to move past the Q9FN's dreadful SDE. The black crush and motion processing are also disappointing for a model that is positioned by Samsung as a flagship consumer TV.

Maybe I will contact Samsung and try for a better panel with less SDE (Samsung should be embarrassed). This TV has the potential to be great, and the upscaling really is outstanding.
The black crush is mostly irrelevant in my experience. Owning this set for 5 months, I've only noticed one instance where I thought the set was crushing some detail.

It's really only an issue trying to calibrate to reference SDR at 100 nits, as was shown in the shootout, the Q9 struggles where other sets perform very well. At that point, you should be getting an OLED if SDR Reference is your biggest concern.

I do have some DSE, but it is very difficult to spot without testing for it. I might try the lottery again if it's really that bad for you.

I agree about the motion processing. I actually like the look of the Automotion Plus, but I'm forced to turn in off completely as I see serious skipping on pretty much any level with it engaged. It's like the algorithm Samsung uses is slow to recognize moving objects, and it creates a terrible stutter in the process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
Check the Rtngs review of the Z9F. Technically it is a VA panel but Sony is using a technology they call "X Wide Viewing Angle" which improves viewing angles (as IPS panels do) but at the expense of contrast ratio (as IPS panels do). The net effect is that it does a half ass job on both viewing angle and contrast, hence the term "hybrid IPS". At the price level for a Z9F, I don't know of too many owners who would be willing to accept the compromised black levels but to each their own.
I left Samsung Q9FN for a Q900 and then I left that one as well, it was simply too pricey for a number of issues I had with it. Now I'm on the ZF9 and the viewing angles are not half asses in any way, they are stunning for an LCD screen. Also there is virtually no DSE to speak of, the image quality is as good as it gets besides the slightly less deep blacks in medium bright content and while Q9FN does many things well, I'd be hard pressed going back. The simple summary is that Samsung makes mainstream populist stuff that initially wows it's customers but at the expense of accuracy that you may only notice later unless you are educated enough in display technologies. An example is that they often default to settings that are way over exaggerating colors or contrast to the point where nuance or information is lost. Sony on the other hand in my opinion are often more refined and respect source material much more.

I want to add that I do think Samsung does some things really well. They do use Quantum Dots that can produce amazing level of color volume, it's great for games where things aren't real so you can't tell if a color is slightly of but it has a lot of punch. The HDR has a lot of punch, especially for smaller highlight. The One Connect box is a great idea. The remote is nice. And it does BFI in SDR really well. Also 1440p 120hz is really nice.

But I feel that what ever I'm watching on the Sony ZF9 is accurately presented, very close to the creators intent, and no information is lost in black crush and colors looks correct without the cartoonyness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,315 Posts
I left Samsung Q9FN for a Q900 and then I left that one as well, it was simply too pricey for a number of issues I had with it. Now I'm on the ZF9 and the viewing angles are not half asses in any way, they are stunning for an LCD screen. Also there is virtually no DSE to speak of, the image quality is as good as it gets besides the slightly less deep blacks in medium bright content and while Q9FN does many things well, I'd be hard pressed going back. The simple summary is that Samsung makes mainstream populist stuff that initially wows it's customers but at the expense of accuracy that you may only notice later unless you are educated enough in display technologies. An example is that they often default to settings that are way over exaggerating colors or contrast to the point where nuance or information is lost. Sony on the other hand in my opinion are often more refined and respect source material much more.

I want to add that I do think Samsung does some things really well. They do use Quantum Dots that can produce amazing level of color volume, it's great for games where things aren't real so you can't tell if a color is slightly of but it has a lot of punch. The HDR has a lot of punch, especially for smaller highlight. The One Connect box is a great idea. The remote is nice. And it does BFI in SDR really well. Also 1440p 120hz is really nice.

But I feel that what ever I'm watching on the Sony ZF9 is accurately presented, very close to the creators intent, and no information is lost in black crush and colors looks correct without the cartoonyness.

Along with the "less deep blacks" (very "less deep" as the "black" bars are very noticeable in movies, etc.) you forgot to mention the blooming/hallowing and the terrible contrast ratio of the Z9F.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
I left Samsung Q9FN for a Q900 and then I left that one as well, it was simply too pricey for a number of issues I had with it. Now I'm on the ZF9 and the viewing angles are not half asses in any way, they are stunning for an LCD screen. Also there is virtually no DSE to speak of, the image quality is as good as it gets besides the slightly less deep blacks in medium bright content and while Q9FN does many things well, I'd be hard pressed going back. The simple summary is that Samsung makes mainstream populist stuff that initially wows it's customers but at the expense of accuracy that you may only notice later unless you are educated enough in display technologies. An example is that they often default to settings that are way over exaggerating colors or contrast to the point where nuance or information is lost. Sony on the other hand in my opinion are often more refined and respect source material much more.

I want to add that I do think Samsung does some things really well. They do use Quantum Dots that can produce amazing level of color volume, it's great for games where things aren't real so you can't tell if a color is slightly of but it has a lot of punch. The HDR has a lot of punch, especially for smaller highlight. The One Connect box is a great idea. The remote is nice. And it does BFI in SDR really well. Also 1440p 120hz is really nice.

But I feel that what ever I'm watching on the Sony ZF9 is accurately presented, very close to the creators intent, and no information is lost in black crush and colors looks correct without the cartoonyness.
Here are the viewing angle ratings. The Sony Z9F rates 21st among LCD TVs. Behind "legendary" TVs such as the Vizio D Series 2017. YMMV but I would call that half ass.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/viewing-angle

Here are the contrast ratio ratings. The Sony Z9F rates way down the list. Hardly "slightly less deep blacks"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/contrast-ratio

I don't doubt that the Z9F is outstanding in other ways. It should be for $6000 for a 75 inch screen. Anyway I'm glad you're happy with your Z9F and like I said earlier to each their own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
Here are the viewing angle ratings. The Sony Z9F rates 21st among LCD TVs. Behind "legendary" TVs such as the Vizio D Series 2017. YMMV but I would call that half ass.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/viewing-angle

Here are the contrast ratio ratings. The Sony Z9F rates way down the list. Hardly "slightly less deep blacks"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/contrast-ratio

I don't doubt that the Z9F is outstanding in other ways. It should be for $6000 for a 75 inch screen. Anyway I'm glad you're happy with your Z9F and like I said earlier to each their own.
I'm not defending the blacks, but I'm not particularly bothered by a bit of letter box blooming as I'm looking at the movie after all. I am however a bit bothered by blooming reducing in-content contrast a bit but most of the time blacks are more than fine. Regarding the viewing angles, I'm writing this now on the ZF9 and they are OUTSTANDING. You may not know this but Rtings has stated that their current test bed methodology, which BTW they are updating next year, results in an unfavorably score that doesn't reflect at all what it looks like in person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,096 Posts
Hi and Happy Holidays,
Its been a long time since I have posted on the AVS Forum. On Black Friday I purchase a 2015 65 inch Q9FN. Its been exactly one week since it was mounted on wall in my living room replacing a 10 year old Samsung 1080 52 inch display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,540 Posts
And that's for watching movies on BR, Netflix etc?

For some reason I can't enable the HDR+ setting. I assume when watching actual HDR content you disable it though, right?
It's for watching all my videos, DirecTV HD & UHD, Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, BR. The HDR+ setting is right in the menu with all the other picture settings -- maybe you're not looking in "Expert Settings" -- it can't be chosen the same way as the other picture modes. (Check that you have UHD color enabled for the 4 HDMI inputs. The setting is in General > External Device Manager > UHD Color.)


No, I do not disable HDR+ for HDR sources. For one thing, it's not possible for DirecTV, since both HD and HDR are coming from the same source. You'd have thought that Samsung would have provided separate settings for HD and UHD, but they didn't.


I realize it seems peculiar to be trying to fake HDR when the source is real HDR, but apparently Samsung is okay with that. When I brought this up above in the thread, Ray showed us some promotional literature from Samsung from a German site that implies clearly that HDR+ mode is also for HDR source. Besides, it looks fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
And that's for watching movies on BR, Netflix etc?

For some reason I can't enable the HDR+ setting. I assume when watching actual HDR content you disable it though, right?
It's for watching all my videos, DirecTV HD & UHD, Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, BR. The HDR+ setting is right in the menu with all the other picture settings -- maybe you're not looking in "Expert Settings" -- it can't be chosen the same way as the other picture modes. (Check that you have UHD color enabled for the 4 HDMI inputs. The setting is in General > External Device Manager > UHD Color.)


No, I do not disable HDR+ for HDR sources. For one thing, it's not possible for DirecTV, since both HD and HDR are coming from the same source. You'd have thought that Samsung would have provided separate settings for HD and UHD, but they didn't.


I realize it seems peculiar to be trying to fake HDR when the source is real HDR, but apparently Samsung is okay with that. When I brought this up above in the thread, Ray showed us some promotional literature from Samsung from a German site that implies clearly that HDR+ mode is also for HDR source. Besides, it looks fine.
That's interesting. I will try this. And this is with the movie picture mode?


Oooh Nevermind. Soon as I enabled HDR+ it became a mode. I was using the movie mode when I enabled HDR+.

Oh and as for Gamma. I can only select one but you listed all three; HLG, ST.2084 and BT.1886. You switch between these?
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
26,645 Posts
Hi and Happy Holidays,
Its been a long time since I have posted on the AVS Forum. On Black Friday I purchase a 2015 65 inch Q9FN. Its been exactly one week since it was mounted on wall in my living room replacing a 10 year old Samsung 1080 52 inch display.
So what do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,178 Posts
Fortunately for my set, the DSE is more than acceptable, haven't noticed it since I stopped actively looking for it last June. No banding. Reflections are a million times better in my windowed room than my Sharp Elite was. As usual, these forums assume that everyone cares about accuracy and that not being accurate is a fault. The average consumer might want the most pleasing picture to the eye, not the most accurate. I find Rtings settings on both this set and the 900f so dull I wonder if the average Director has bad eye sight and missing most of the color spectrum. Love the inky blacks and the loss of minor detail sometimes just doesn't bother any of us, at least on Natural which continues to be my favorite setting. Will try Greg's on HDR+ only because I'm curious.

I do agree about the motion though. I fiddle with it every day on lower quality sources. On the 900f I didnt have to do that. On good sources, it's perfectly fine and I have no trouble with it when watching tennis as long as I turn off auto motion plus.

Either way, 6 months later, I love the set, everyone who comes over for movie night loves the set, and until something comes along that clearly blows it out of the water to the average consumers eyes, not an AVS forum calibrator that prefers a duller more accurate picture for a cave, I'm sticking with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Damn it. The connect box is causing a delay in sound. I have my Xbox One X connected to the connect box and not my Denon AVR-X1400H receiver because I miss out on some features. If I do connect it to the receiver there is no audio delay. There is a significant audio delay when I have the Xbox connected via HDMI to the Samsung box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Damn it. The connect box is causing a delay in sound. I have my Xbox One X connected to the connect box and not my Denon AVR-X1400H receiver because I miss out on some features. If I do connect it to the receiver there is no audio delay. There is a significant audio delay when I have the Xbox connected via HDMI to the Samsung box.
I had massive delay with ARC from the one connect box using the XboneX as well, using optical out from the Xbox straight to the receiver fixed it but then you get compressed audio. I liked having FreeSync but I ended up switching it back to my receiver and not going through the one connect
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Damn it. The connect box is causing a delay in sound. I have my Xbox One X connected to the connect box and not my Denon AVR-X1400H receiver because I miss out on some features. If I do connect it to the receiver there is no audio delay. There is a significant audio delay when I have the Xbox connected via HDMI to the Samsung box.
I had massive delay with ARC from the one connect box using the XboneX as well, using optical out from the Xbox straight to the receiver fixed it but then you get compressed audio. I liked having FreeSync but I ended up switching it back to my receiver and not going through the one connect
Damn. So there's no way to fix this? I tried using the audio delay option on the Denon but it didn't do a thing. Freesync is nice indeed but barely any games on Xbox right now benefit from it, right? Guess I could switch back. I'm gonna miss having the Xbox option in the Samsung mebu though. I really liked that.

I tried the lip sinc audio delay option on the Denon and it slightly improved but I can't seem to get it just right. I have my headset powered on at the same time and that way I can really notice the delay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Damn. So there's no way to fix this? I tried using the audio delay option on the Denon but it didn't do a thing. Freesync is nice indeed but barely any games on Xbox right now benefit from it, right? Guess I could switch back. I'm gonna miss having the Xbox option in the Samsung mebu though. I really liked that.

I tried the lip sinc audio delay option on the Denon and it slightly improved but I can't seem to get it just right. I have my headset powered on at the same time and that way I can really notice the delay.
iirc audio delay adjustments only work when then video is delayed after the audio, in this case the freesync straight to the TV is much faster than the audio, so the delay setting would have to time travel back in time to sync with the video. The only way would be to delay the video to sync to the audio and that would negate the entire purpose of low latency freesync. I think eARC should technically fix this as it will pass through the audio stream without any processing, however right now the one connect is doing some processing on the xbox bitstream for ARC and that is what is causing the delay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I'm hoping for some advice/user views on the Q9FN . so I'll be upgrading from the Samsung ks9500 2016 model. I loved it's brightness and vibrancy. the one infernal Thing that was a showstopper and I had half a mind to switch to something else, was the anti glare coating. you cannot lay a drop of liquid or moisture while wiping the screen without leaving a PERMANENT weird blue stain/smudge on this tv set.. I tried distilled water , Avoided any alcohol based cleaners, the screen still gets stained with the blue tinted smudges, returned the set multiple times still the same results with the replacements.I can conclude that if the screen gets dirty/smudge u would have to dry wipe it or else live with the residual smudges(and I think the ks7000 and ks8000 range in 2016 had the same problwm)

so the million dollar question , does the 2018 Q9FN suffer the same plight. are there any problems using a damp cloth to clean the tv without leaving any permenant streaks? this will be a show stopper for me
 
7261 - 7280 of 11232 Posts
Top