AVS Forum banner

441 - 460 of 607 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,879 Posts
He could have just as easily been a flop in the pros, you never know until they get there.
That guy? Oh no. He would have dominated. He was built for the professional game, had all the gifts, talent & work ethic required to be a superstar. Also, according to reports, had his head screwed on straight as well. Such a loss for the Celtics, and basketball in general.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
That guy? Oh no. He would have dominated. He was built for the professional game, had all the gifts, talent & work ethic required to be a superstar. Also, according to reports, had his head screwed on straight as well. Such a loss for the Celtics, and basketball in general.

Yet he took cocaine celebrating. Plenty of college superstars just don't make it, just ask Christian Laettner.



He might have been great but there are no guarantees when it comes to transitioning from College to the Pros, be it basketball or football.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,879 Posts
Yet he took cocaine celebrating. Plenty of college superstars just don't make it, just ask Christian Laettner.
Yes, he did. Plenty of young kids make mistakes. They temporarily fall in with the wrong crowd, maybe can't handle the sudden influx of a lot of money. But it's rarely fatal. And most of them, if they have a good head on their shoulders as Bias reportedly did, will emerge from those things stronger and wiser.

Unfortunately, he just drew a very short straw doing something somebody told him would be fun. It was not a habit of his, and may have been the only time he ever did it. A complete fluke.

Comparing Len Bias to Christian Laettner is unfair to both and a false equivalency. The former was in a whole different class of talent and athletic ability than the latter.

Cheddarhead said:
He might have been great but there are no guarantees when it comes to transitioning from College to the Pros, be it basketball or football.
He was as much of a "sure thing" as we've ever seen based on his college resume.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,015 Posts
Yet he took cocaine celebrating. Plenty of college superstars just don't make it, just ask Christian Laettner.
Laettner, and I can't believe I'm defending this guy, started and averaged 17 pts and 8 rebounds per game for 6 years. He didn't make it? Yes he did make it but, no, he wasn't a star.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
Laettner, and I can't believe I'm defending this guy, started and averaged 17 pts and 8 rebounds per game for 6 years. He didn't make it? Yes he did make it but, no, he wasn't a star.
Pretty much my point, too many Celtic fans are absolutely sure that Len Bias would have been the second coming. Would he have been good, probably but superstar ain't guaranteed.


Ask Sam Bowie, Chris Washburn, Bobby Hurley, Michael Olowokandi, Robert Traylor, Kwame Brown and dozens of others. Some had decent careers, some no career at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,015 Posts
I am really liking the MJ series and it really shows the pressure on him and his single-mindedness. In a way, it pushes Muhammad Ali even higher in my estimation because he was able to be the best and, on top of that, push for social issues. Same with LBJ.

You can really see how MJ is totally used up and spent at the end of the first 3-peat and then how hard he worked to get back.

It also brings into play Steve Kerr who is most Tucsonan's second favorite son (after favorite home town Sean Elliott) from the University of Arizona.

First we all knew of the story about MJ and Kerr's "fight" when it occurred. Typical Steve, he was humble about it and said it really helped their relationship.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29146840/steve-kerr-not-proud-infamous-practice-scuffle-michael-jordan

The other big thing was that MJ didn't know that Steve's father was shot and killed as well. Here's that story:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/the-assassination-of-steve-kerrs-father-and-the-unlikely-story-of-a-champion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,015 Posts
Pretty much my point, too many Celtic fans are absolutely sure that Len Bias would have been the second coming. Would he have been good, probably but superstar ain't guaranteed.


Ask Sam Bowie, Chris Washburn, Bobby Hurley, Michael Olowokandi, Robert Traylor, Kwame Brown and dozens of others. Some had decent careers, some no career at all.
When you said, Laettner didn't make it, I assumed you meant that he was a washout like Adam Morrison. Laettner was a decent pro.

Len Bias, in my opinion which agrees with archiguy, would have definitely been a star. The guys who usually don't live up to their billing are centers who have all sorts of injury issues. I don't know who thought Bobby Hurley was going to be a star.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
When you said, Laettner didn't make it, I assumed you meant that he was a washout like Adam Morrison. Laettner was a decent pro.

Len Bias, in my opinion which agrees with archiguy, would have definitely been a star. The guys who usually don't live up to their billing are centers who have all sorts of injury issues. I don't know who thought Bobby Hurley was going to be a star.

I agree that Bias probably would have been a star but the NBA Draft is such a crap shoot, you just never know, both on the up and downside.



Lot's of Duke fans did and since the Kings drafted him seventh overall, maybe the Kings. He falls in the category of Jay Williams, non-BB injury.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,678 Posts
Discussion Starter #451
That calamity (Bias dying) really dumped Boston in a big way for a long time.
He could have just as easily been a flop in the pros, you never know until they get there.
That guy? Oh no. He would have dominated. He was built for the professional game, had all the gifts, talent & work ethic required to be a superstar. Also, according to reports, had his head screwed on straight as well. Such a loss for the Celtics, and basketball in general.
I'm also in the group that thinks Bias would have been great in the NBA...the thing that stood out to me was he was 6'8" and pretty chiseled in college, meaning he already had an NBA-ready body...he was in better shape then Lebron at the same age...the only thing that could have potentially held him back was he was joining an already great (albeit older) Celtics team with Bird/McHale/Parish...he would most likely have to take a back seat for a year or 2 and maybe he wouldn't have wanted to do that

joining an already elite team is similar to when the Spurs landed Tim Duncan after having 1 down year...going from 1 Hall of Fame LB (Larry Bird) to another potential great (Len Bias) was a marketing dream
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,678 Posts
Discussion Starter #452
I am really liking the MJ series and it really shows the pressure on him and his single-mindedness. In a way, it pushes Muhammad Ali even higher in my estimation because he was able to be the best and, on top of that, push for social issues. Same with LBJ
I haven't watched Last Dance yet (I have all the episodes recorded) but from articles I've read I'm not liking some of the things I'm hearing...the way he bullied teammates, talking about teammates cocaine use, calling out ex-teammates like Horace Grant etc...this seems more like an MJ fluff piece (he gets final say on everything)...whenever another player gives his opinion, they show the sound bite to MJ and he gets the last word...I'm not saying MJ was not one of the best to ever play but he also had his issues which the media always likes to gloss over (infidelity issues in his first marriage, gambling etc)

and he really should have used his platform to talk about social issues and injustice but he was always afraid of rocking the boat...I also don't consider him the GOAT-- Kareem, Bill Russell, Wilt, Magic have better cases in my opinion

they are not even filming in MJ's actual house (even though they made it seem that way)…

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/last-dance-michael-jordan-refused-be-interviewed-his-home
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,879 Posts
Another hypothetical, anyone who free based cocaine had other substance abuse problems that would have prevented stardom.
I'm sorry, but what was the hypothetical, exactly? That Bias would have been an NBA star based on the consensus opinion of every scout and NBA expert who saw him play, as well as every sportswriter in the country, as well as Red Auerbach (a pretty good judge of talent), as well as his lofty draft position (#2 overall)?

Or the fact that he had absolutely NO history of drug abuse reported or even hinted at by anybody who knew him, anybody close to the Maryland program, or anybody else prior to that one fateful evening? I don't remember anything like that even being floated after the incident. He was highly regarded in both talent and character, and NBA teams do their due diligence. Something like that rarely gets by them, certainly concerning a top pick.

If he had "substance abuse problems", he would never have achieved the success he had in school, nor would he have been in the shape he was in. It is much more reasonable to assume he had no experience with or tolerance for cocaine prior to that fateful evening, which may have contributed to his overdose. And there is nothing "hypothetical" about that. :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,678 Posts
Discussion Starter #454
ESPN's ranking of the Top 10 players in NBA History

* it's actually a list of the Top 74 players but I'm just posting the Top 10...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105801/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-10-1

I can't really argue with that list but like I said recently Jordan is not 1st on my list...my 2 favorite players of all time are Larry Bird and Hakeem Olajuwon (favorite doesn't mean best)...Olajuwon is still a bit underrated, he was so skilled
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
ESPN's ranking of the Top 10 players in NBA History

* it's actually a list of the Top 74 players but I'm just posting the Top 10...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105801/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-10-1

I can't really argue with that list but like I said recently Jordan is not 1st on my list...my 2 favorite players of all time are Larry Bird and Hakeem Olajuwon (favorite doesn't mean best)...Olajuwon is still a bit underrated, he was so skilled
Any top ten list of NBA players that doesn't have Kareem #1 and Oscar Robinson on it is just bogus. IMO of course.



Oscar was LeBron before LeBron.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John dhein

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,678 Posts
Discussion Starter #456
Any top ten list of NBA players that doesn't have Kareem #1 and Oscar Robinson on it is just bogus. IMO of course.

Oscar was LeBron before LeBron.
Kareem definitely deserves consideration as the best ever...he has the same number of titles as Jordan plus more MVP's and is the all time scoring leader...Bill Russell won 11 titles in 13 seasons but people downplay it because of the 'different era' argument...

I do think Lebron is a better overall player then Oscar Robertson...just because he was the first to do something doesn't mean he was the best
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
Kareem definitely deserves consideration as the best ever...he has the same number of titles as Jordan plus more MVP's and is the all time scoring leader...Bill Russell won 11 titles in 13 seasons but people downplay it because of the 'different era' argument...

I do think Lebron is a better overall player then Oscar Robertson...just because he was the first to do something doesn't mean he was the best

Oscar is the only player in the all-time top 10 in both points and assists. Too many people only know him by the triple-double thing.
If you ever saw him play during his prime you would take him as the best point guard of all time. Yeah, before Magic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John dhein

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,678 Posts
Discussion Starter #458
Oscar is the only player in the all-time top 10 in both points and assists. Too many people only know him by the triple-double thing.
If you ever saw him play during his prime you would take him as the best point guard of all time. Yeah, before Magic.
Oscar Robertson is no longer in the Top 10 in scoring...Lebron is in the Top 10 in both scoring and assists and will end up having more points and assists then the Big O...Lebron also has a chance to pass Kareem as the all time leader in points
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,256 Posts
Oscar Robertson is no longer in the Top 10 in scoring...Lebron is in the Top 10 in both scoring and assists and will end up having more points and assists then the Big O...Lebron also has a chance to pass Kareem as the all time leader in points
Ah, I see he's fallen all the way to #12 , need to update my NBA trivia. I still standby my statement that Oscar belongs in the Top 10 of all time and he was the 1960's version of LeBron James and the best PG of all time and I've seen a few.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John dhein

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,015 Posts
Ah, I see he's fallen all the way to #12 , need to update my NBA trivia. I still standby my statement that Oscar belongs in the Top 10 of all time and he was the 1960's version of LeBron James and the best PG of all time and I've seen a few.
Problem is who are you going to leave out? It probably isn't good to try to make such a list because the different eras and rules. No 3 pt shot, tons of grabbing allowed etc. I think its a better idea to list 50 without any order.
 
441 - 460 of 607 Posts
Top