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Seems like I made the right decision returning my C9 before the return window expired. Still too early for 4K/120hz gaming, back to waiting... maybe 2020'll be the year...!

This'll be my last post in here unless 4K/120hz becomes a thing on C9's -- just wanted to say thanks & farewell to everyone in the thread it's a good resource for the most part; hope you all enjoy your C9/E9's!

Cheers! :cool:
 

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Haven't done it as I don't have a gaming PC. I just calculated it.


Htotal of 2620 and Vtotal of 1525 is 17.98Gbps. That makes Hblank 60 so pretty tight.

It will fit a HDMI 2.0 connection. Whether the TV accepts it is what you need to test.
Yeah i don't really know how to enter that into either nvcpanel or CRU.

There are a lot of settings. The timings always have me stumped. The only front porch i know is the one out the front of my house :p

 

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I tried this also (successfully) last night with a 66MHz overclock, pretty sure it was at 4.4.4 8bit. I'll double check tonight, but I always run 4.4.4 8-bit (non-PC mode), so either I overlooked it during the overclock or it worked for me. Will confirm later.

Looking forward to hearing from you. Using NVCP, it definitely only allows for RGB 8-bit. Someone on Reddit suggested using CRU with LCD standard, but I haven't tried that yet.


I found 04.70.05 this morning.

When I turned on the display, it had the "WebOS" splash screen, told me it was updating FW, and then came up. It made me view the T's & C's screen. After that it went back to the content (cable box). After a few moments, the pop-up in the upper right corner of the panel said something about updating the remote.

Everything was unchanged with my settings on all menus, and the remote works fine. It was a non-event here. ARC seems the same, too. But, I have not tested anything.

My set exhibited the exact same behavior as yours ("WebOS" splash screen, TOS confirmation, etc.), but it definitely got rid of all of my picture settings, for all inputs and modes. And, as I mentioned, "Allow Automatic Updates" was definitely disabled. Very odd.



With the new 440.52 Gsync beta nvidia drivers, they also unlocked a few extra resolutions, i'm sure 100hz 1440p was one of them, but i can't confirm as i reverted my drivers.

It wasn't. On 440.52, there's a 3840x2160 resolution under "PC" that allows for 120 and 100Hz. But if you select any of those, the screen goes crazy, so they're definitely not supported over HDMI 2.0b (Aorus 2080 Ti Waterforce Xtreme).



Yeh I have 440.52 at the moment. Gotta say I am loving the G-sync.
Tested Destiny 2 and Borderlands 3. Currently favouring 1440p at 120fps on 442 10bit. 4K is definitely sharper but the 120fps is just so smooth.

Did you OC your TV at all, using NVCP or CRU? Or are you limiting your frame rate to 57/117 fps?



Well I couldn't take losing my old setup entirely for G-Sync so I at least came up with a workaround, similar to the old freesync trick

I was using a similar workaround and even posted the instructions here, before upgrading my GPU, which now has multiple HDMI outputs.



Make sure that all audio formats are still supported when using the AVR as a secondary display. For some reason, my Denon didn't display any HD audio formats on Windows when running the GPU through it (either with a direct HDMI connection, or using a DP-to-HDMI adapter).



In the end, I hacked the TV's EDID and added the required custom resolutions. You can do the same to the AVR, for audio formats, but I figured it'd be more trouble.



Does instant game response work on pc or only xbox? As in we can obtain low input lag in all picture modes?

It works on PC using Nvidia's 440.52 drivers.



If you reduce the horizontal blanking you can get 120Hz for 1440p.
have you done this and what are your settings? did you use nvcpanel or cru?

settings plz?
Haven't done it as I don't have a gaming PC. I just calculated it.


Htotal of 2620 and Vtotal of 1525 is 17.98Gbps. That makes Hblank 60 so pretty tight.

It will fit a HDMI 2.0 connection. Whether the TV accepts it is what you need to test.

I'm also interested in learning more about blanking. ToastyX (the creator of CRU) doesn't have an OLED, so he can't test it for himself, and I'm only familiar with adding non-standard resolutions with regular refresh rates (60Hz for 4K, 120Hz for 1440p). I have no idea how to calculate the values for "OC'ed" refresh rates (66/126Hz).
 

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I just updated my C9 to the latest firmware released on October 19th, using a flash drive.

I then updated my Nvidia drivers to 440.97 (which just released on 10/22) I'm not seeing any options to Set up Gsync in the Nvidia control panel.

Any ideas? Or is this still only available in beta drivers?
 

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Since the discussions regarding PC/Game inputs and color banding have resumed, I thought that'd be helpful to share my findings on this thread once again (all testing done on firmware 03.60.19):

65” LG OLED C9

Banding test results (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/gradient-h.png)


HDR

Input: Game Console
HDR Picture Mode: Game (User)

YCbCr444 8bpc: minimal (near flawless - minimal from black to gray)
YCbCr422 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr422 10bpc: bad all around
YCbCr422 12bpc: medium all around (more than YCbCr444 8bpc; less than YCbCr422 10bpc)
YCbCr420 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr420 12bpc: medium all around, better than 422 12bpc (more than YCbCr444 8bpc; less than YCbCr422 10bpc)
RGB 8bpc (Full): minimal (from gray to white)
RGB 8bpc (Limited): minimal (from black to gray)

Input: PC
HDR Picture Mode: Standard

YCbCr444 8bpc: minimal (from gray to black)
YCbCr422 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr422 10bpc: terrible
YCbCr422 12bpc: bad
YCbCr420 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr420 12bpc: minimal (from white to gray)
RGB 8bpc (Full): bad all around


SDR


Input: Game Console
Picture Mode: Game (User)

YCbCr444 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 10bpc: near flawless
YCbCr422 12bpc: near flawless
YCbCr420 8bpc: medium
YCbCr420 12bpc: very minimal
RGB 8bpc (Full): minimal

Input: PC
Picture Mode: technicolor Expert (User)

YCbCr444 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 10bpc: medium
YCbCr422 12bpc: medium
YCbCr420 8bpc: medium
YCbCr420 12bpc: minimal
RGB 8bpc (Full): medium



Also, for those with GPUs that only have one HDMI output and are having issues connecting their cards through an AVR, here's a link to my workaround. Full quote in the spoiler tag:


An update to the issue of [email protected] not working through a 2017 Denon AVR (X4400H).

I figured that I'd have to override the EDID of either the TV or the AVR (which is "seen" as a display by the graphics drivers) in order to include the missing audio or video formats. Doing so for the TV seemed too involved, so I ended up using CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) to add a detailed resolution of 2560 x 1440 with a refresh rate of 120Hz to the DENON-AVRHD "display" (with the GPU connected through it).

After restarting the drivers, a new set of resolutions appeared under "PC", in the Nvidia Control Panel (just like it looked like to the X4200W user), including 2560 x 1440 at 120Hz.

As I mentioned here, that should not be necessary. If [email protected] works without requiring an EDID override on the X4200W, that means that Denon deliberately removed the information regarding that non-standard resolution from the X4400H. They're also most likely the sole responsible for the eARC incompatibility issue (the 2018 models receive the exact same update and work with the C9), as they were, in fact, the ones at fault regarding the ARC audio delay problem.

Lastly, that workaround is exclusive to PC, as it involves local changes to the registry and doesn't write anything to the actual devices. On Xbox One X, which also supports [email protected], ALLM and VRR, none of those features work with the console connected through the AVR - only when it's connected directly to the TV.

Denon has specifically said that ALLM was "added to all HDCP 2.2 compatible models of Denon AVRs" in a firmware update of August/September 2018. VRR should also be technically possible to passthrough (the Xbox is HDMI 2.0b, after all). Same with [email protected] (as evidenced by the PC scenario). However, nothing currently works.

I'd love to hear from other C9 and 2017 Denon owners about their experiences with PC and Xbox One X, especially trying to run [email protected], ALLM and VRR with those devices connected through the AVR.
 

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I just updated my C9 to the latest firmware released on October 19th, using a flash drive.

I then updated my Nvidia drivers to 440.97 (which just released on 10/22) I'm not seeing any options to Set up Gsync in the Nvidia control panel.

Any ideas? Or is this still only available in beta drivers?

Still only available on 440.52.
 

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Discussion Starter #8,069
I had a dead pixel with a vertical line appear twice on my calibrated C9. The second time it happened (lasted 3 weeks) an LG tech came out and determined I needed a new panel. In the week that it took to order a new panel the line and dead pixel disappeared!
Should I replace my panel even tho it appears normal or do I take a chance and keep it as is.
Appreciate any thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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The Last of Us Remastered also supports HGiG.

I played around with it. But IMHO it looks even worse compared to HGiG off.

DTM still gives me the best result even though it messes around with the whole image.



Some examples (Recorded with my 1+6T, so do not expect perfect quality. But I think you should still see the differences):



1st Example (Bright sun):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YRR5dltOU

With HGiG on I lose details in brighter areas around the sun. On the other hand the clouds on the left side looked

a bit better IMHO. This goes for pretty much every bright spot. Instead of gaining details I lose details compared to HGiG off/DTM on.





2nd Example (Darker area):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgjvZ3bTp3I

As you might see this is a darker area. Between HGiG on/off there is zero difference.

DTM on brightens the whole image and reveals more details.



During the HDR configuration in the menu of PS4 I noticed the following:

With HGiG off and HGiG on configuring the sliders is much more "rough".

The setup tells me to adjust the sliders as long as I barely see the logo.

If I try this at one point the logo is noticible a lot. One click further I do not notice the logo at all.

Then If have to decide between "clearly seeing the logo" vs. "not seeing the logo at all". There is no inbetween.

In the end it does not even make a difference for the ingame result which way I go. Both look the same.



I know it is not recommended to do this setup with DTM enabled. But if I run it with DTM enabled I am able to control

these sliders much more much more precise. Only with DTM enabled I am able to make the logos "barely" visible.
I believe you are mistaken - this is the same select object changes but the game doesn't appear to actually support HGIG.

When a game supports HGIG it should be resolving just as much detail as DTM but without the excessive brightness.
 

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A couple of possible bugs on Nvidia's beta firmware 440.52:


1. No "Integer Scaling" available as a scaling mode on NVCP (exclusive to RTX; available on stable fw);
2. Tearing at the top of the screen when scrolling up or down on Firefox running in full screen (G-Sync enabled; VRR on Windows on/off didn't make a difference).
 

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Yeah i don't really know how to enter that into either nvcpanel or CRU.

There are a lot of settings. The timings always have me stumped. The only front porch i know is the one out the front of my house :p
My Htotal and Vtotal numbers are Total pixels on that.

I'm also interested in learning more about blanking. ToastyX (the creator of CRU) doesn't have an OLED, so he can't test it for himself, and I'm only familiar with adding non-standard resolutions with regular refresh rates (60Hz for 4K, 120Hz for 1440p). I have no idea how to calculate the values for "OC'ed" refresh rates (66/126Hz).
Blanking is just the difference between your active pixels and your total pixels. Blanking is made up of the front porch plus the sync width on the top and left and the back porch on the bottom and right. The back porch is calculated automatically on that custom resolution screen. These numbers use to determine the centering of the image on CRT displays. Now they just have to fit between the active and total pixels and not be too small that the TV can't sync.

As you reduce the total pixels to use less bandwidth you may need to reduce the front porch if the back porch becomes to small. Just subtract the active pixels, front porch and sync width from the total to see how big the back porch is.

How do you know when you need to reduce the total pixels? You calculate the bandwidth and keep it under 18Gbps. To calculate it you take the pixel clock and multiply it by how many bits per pixel are used (see below). Then divide by 8 and multiply by 10 to get the encoded bandwidth. So the one from the screenshot is 69.2453MHz * 24 BPP/ 8 * 10 = 2.077Gbps.

Bits Per Pixel (BPP):
4:2:0 8-bit = 12
4:2:0 10-bit = 15
4:2:0 12-bit = 18
4:2:2 8-bit = 24
4:2:2 10-bit = 24
4:2:2 12-bit = 24
4:4:4 8-bit = 24
4:4:4 10-bit = 30
4:4:4 12-bit = 36
RGB 8-bit = 24
RGB 10-bit = 30
RGB 12-bit = 36

The refresh rate just changes the pixel clock.

Note: Ignore the BPP on the custom resolution screen. That's the video buffer BPP and not the HDMI BPP.

Note 2: Pixel clock is usually horizontal total * vertical total * refresh rate
 

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My Htotal and Vtotal numbers are Total pixels on that.


Blanking is just the difference between your active pixels and your total pixels. Blanking is made up of the front porch plus the sync width on the top and left and the back porch on the bottom and right. The back porch is calculated automatically on that custom resolution screen. These numbers use to determine the centering of the image on CRT displays. Now they just have to fit between the active and total pixels and not be too small that the TV can't sync.

As you reduce the total pixels to use less bandwidth you may need to reduce the front porch if the back porch becomes to small. Just subtract the active pixels, front porch and sync width from the total to see how big the back porch is.

How do you know when you need to reduce the total pixels? You calculate the bandwidth and keep it under 18Gbps. To calculate it you take the pixel clock and multiply it by how many bits per pixel are used (see below). Then divide by 8 and multiply by 10 to get the encoded bandwidth. So the one from the screenshot is 69.2453MHz * 24 BPP/ 8 * 10 = 2.077Gbps.

Bits Per Pixel (BPP):
4:2:0 8-bit = 12
4:2:0 10-bit = 15
4:2:0 12-bit = 18
4:2:2 8-bit = 24
4:2:2 10-bit = 24
4:2:2 12-bit = 24
4:4:4 8-bit = 24
4:4:4 10-bit = 30
4:4:4 12-bit = 36
RGB 8-bit = 24
RGB 10-bit = 30
RGB 12-bit = 36

The refresh rate just changes the pixel clock.

Note: Ignore the BPP on the custom resolution screen. That's the video buffer BPP and not the HDMI BPP.

Note 2: Pixel clock is usually horizontal total * vertical total * refresh rate
Cool, that picture i used is just one i grabbed off google, it may have changed since then.
 

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Since the discussions regarding PC/Game inputs and color banding have resumed, I thought that'd be helpful to share my findings on this thread once again (all testing done on firmware 03.60.19):

65” LG OLED C9

Banding test results (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/gradient-h.png)


HDR

Input: Game Console
HDR Picture Mode: Game (User)

YCbCr444 8bpc: minimal (near flawless - minimal from black to gray)
YCbCr422 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr422 10bpc: bad all around
YCbCr422 12bpc: medium all around (more than YCbCr444 8bpc; less than YCbCr422 10bpc)
YCbCr420 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr420 12bpc: medium all around, better than 422 12bpc (more than YCbCr444 8bpc; less than YCbCr422 10bpc)
RGB 8bpc (Full): minimal (from gray to white)
RGB 8bpc (Limited): minimal (from black to gray)

Input: PC
HDR Picture Mode: Standard

YCbCr444 8bpc: minimal (from gray to black)
YCbCr422 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr422 10bpc: terrible
YCbCr422 12bpc: bad
YCbCr420 8bpc: no HDR
YCbCr420 12bpc: minimal (from white to gray)
RGB 8bpc (Full): bad all around


SDR


Input: Game Console
Picture Mode: Game (User)

YCbCr444 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 10bpc: near flawless
YCbCr422 12bpc: near flawless
YCbCr420 8bpc: medium
YCbCr420 12bpc: very minimal
RGB 8bpc (Full): minimal

Input: PC
Picture Mode: technicolor Expert (User)

YCbCr444 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 8bpc: very minimal
YCbCr422 10bpc: medium
YCbCr422 12bpc: medium
YCbCr420 8bpc: medium
YCbCr420 12bpc: minimal
RGB 8bpc (Full): medium



Also, for those with GPUs that only have one HDMI output and are having issues connecting their cards through an AVR, here's a link to my workaround. Full quote in the spoiler tag:


An update to the issue of [email protected] not working through a 2017 Denon AVR (X4400H).

I figured that I'd have to override the EDID of either the TV or the AVR (which is "seen" as a display by the graphics drivers) in order to include the missing audio or video formats. Doing so for the TV seemed too involved, so I ended up using CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) to add a detailed resolution of 2560 x 1440 with a refresh rate of 120Hz to the DENON-AVRHD "display" (with the GPU connected through it).

After restarting the drivers, a new set of resolutions appeared under "PC", in the Nvidia Control Panel (just like it looked like to the X4200W user), including 2560 x 1440 at 120Hz.

As I mentioned here, that should not be necessary. If [email protected] works without requiring an EDID override on the X4200W, that means that Denon deliberately removed the information regarding that non-standard resolution from the X4400H. They're also most likely the sole responsible for the eARC incompatibility issue (the 2018 models receive the exact same update and work with the C9), as they were, in fact, the ones at fault regarding the ARC audio delay problem.

Lastly, that workaround is exclusive to PC, as it involves local changes to the registry and doesn't write anything to the actual devices. On Xbox One X, which also supports [email protected], ALLM and VRR, none of those features work with the console connected through the AVR - only when it's connected directly to the TV.

Denon has specifically said that ALLM was "added to all HDCP 2.2 compatible models of Denon AVRs" in a firmware update of August/September 2018. VRR should also be technically possible to passthrough (the Xbox is HDMI 2.0b, after all). Same with [email protected] (as evidenced by the PC scenario). However, nothing currently works.

I'd love to hear from other C9 and 2017 Denon owners about their experiences with PC and Xbox One X, especially trying to run [email protected], ALLM and VRR with those devices connected through the AVR.
I don’t think the lagom test is a good test for this kind of issue especially for hdr because even when we turn hdr on in windows, the lagom website is not in hdr. Correct me if I’m wrong but we may need a true hdr test video.
 
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Could more people confirm that instant game response now work on pc with the latest nvidia driver, as in we can have get low input lag for all picture modes? That will be great news for people who can’t get their set calibrated as cinema/techniclor mode are more color accurate vs game mode.
 

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I wonder if Shadow of the Tomb Raider on Xbox One supports it. I was swapping Dynamic Tone Mapping between Off, and HGIG and there was a difference. For other games I tested, there wasn't any difference between those two. It's hardly definitive, but I found it interesting.





Edited this a bit because I originally posted my message before reading that others are doing the same thing I am.



When games don't support HGIG, I feel like the picture looks too dim for my tastes...to the point that you lose detail in dark scenes compared to turning DTM to 'on'.
You should be switching between "off" and "HGIG" not DTM and HGIG as there will always be a difference
 

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Seems like I made the right decision returning my C9 before the return window expired. Still too early for 4K/120hz gaming, back to waiting... maybe 2020'll be the year...!

This'll be my last post in here unless 4K/120hz becomes a thing on C9's -- just wanted to say thanks & farewell to everyone in the thread it's a good resource for the most part; hope you all enjoy your C9/E9's!

Cheers! :cool:
What would lead you to believe that 4k 120hz isn't capable on a set that supports HDMI 2.1?

Well within spec so no reason for it not to. To continually post about your long returned set just because you bought it knowing there's no HDMI 2.1 sources out yet is kind of silly.
 

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I had a dead pixel with a vertical line appear twice on my calibrated C9. The second time it happened (lasted 3 weeks) an LG tech came out and determined I needed a new panel. In the week that it took to order a new panel the line and dead pixel disappeared!
Should I replace my panel even tho it appears normal or do I take a chance and keep it as is.
Appreciate any thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely do a panel replacement or wait for it to come back under extended warranty and cash out.

It will always come back
 

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I got the latest LG update and I installed the Nvidia Beta drivers 440.52 I went to the nvidia control panel and enabled G-Sync played Gears5 and GTA V and G-Sync does not work I had my settings at 4k with V-Sync off and it was plenty of screen tearing don't believe these people claiming it works they're lying or placebo effect and I have a MSI Gaming X Trio 2080ti and a i9 9900k G-Sync didn't work which is probably why Nivida haven't release G-Sync support officially
 

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I had a dead pixel with a vertical line appear twice on my calibrated C9. The second time it happened (lasted 3 weeks) an LG tech came out and determined I needed a new panel. In the week that it took to order a new panel the line and dead pixel disappeared!
Should I replace my panel even tho it appears normal or do I take a chance and keep it as is.
Appreciate any thoughts.
Are they even offering to still swap it? If not your stuck........
 
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