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In the beginning everything seems so simple and uncomplicated. Then you find out many things that are not in the tutorial or any manual. For example after how many hours of operation you should calibrate your TV for the first time, that you should warm up your TV 30 minutes before each calibration, that the Raw XYZ mode is not ideal and that you should use a different EDR that is not provided by CalMAN.

Or that you should turn off the TPC option in the Service Menu for calibrations, that the Lightning LUT method is not ideal but the other methods have other problems. And much more ...

The 'simple and straightforward method' may or may not give you decent results.
In my experience, you can get lost quite quickly if something does not work directly. Then you spend many hours trying to figure out what went wrong.


Why can things not just be simple?

I have to say though, I watched a film in hdr from my shield and played a lot of Jedi Fallen Order on my One X last night, and it looked fantastic. So I think I’ll just try and ignore all of the possible things that could be changed.

This was using the rawXYZ setting as well, and the latest firmware.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Question, is the brightness setting in HDR10 and Dolby Vision at 50 correct, or does it need to be at 49? Sometimes black does not seem black.
 

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In the beginning everything seems so simple and uncomplicated. Then you find out many things that are not in the tutorial or any manual. For example after how many hours of operation you should calibrate your TV for the first time, that you should warm up your TV 30 minutes before each calibration, that the Raw XYZ mode is not ideal and that you should use a different EDR that is not provided by CalMAN.

Or that you should turn off the TPC option in the Service Menu for calibrations, that the Lightning LUT method is not ideal but the other methods have other problems. And much more ...

The 'simple and straightforward method' may or may not give you decent results.
In my experience, you can get lost quite quickly if something does not work directly. Then you spend many hours trying to figure out what went wrong.
Well then, I'm sure I can speak for everyone else here to say that we would be very glad if you could help us understand the various intricacies. That way we won't get lost as easily.
 

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In the beginning everything seems so simple and uncomplicated. Then you find out many things that are not in the tutorial or any manual. For example after how many hours of operation you should calibrate your TV for the first time, that you should warm up your TV 30 minutes before each calibration, that the Raw XYZ mode is not ideal and that you should use a different EDR that is not provided by CalMAN.

Or that you should turn off the TPC option in the Service Menu for calibrations, that the Lightning LUT method is not ideal but the other methods have other problems. And much more ...

The 'simple and straightforward method' may or may not give you decent results.
In my experience, you can get lost quite quickly if something does not work directly. Then you spend many hours trying to figure out what went wrong.

I fully agree with everything you said, but even with those issues the autocal calibration is far better than out of box and of course more time dealing with what you mention will get it better or using a pro.
 

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I came here to post about how switching to an active DP/HDMI fixed some issues I was having and then saw your post. I'd give it a shot instead of a passive DP/HDMI cable. Active adapters are one way only I believe and so won't interfere with any existing ARC connections in the rest of your AV system. This is the one I bought and use. The only issue I have with it, is it won't pass Dolby Atmos. 7.1 PCM works just fine though.
Thx, i'll give it a shot with an active one.
 

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Question, is the brightness setting in HDR10 and Dolby Vision at 50 correct, or does it need to be at 49? Sometimes black does not seem black.
It is surprising how much content is out there that intentionally renders what should be black as a dark gray. I honestly don’t know what they’re thinking, except maybe they did something stupid like mastering the video on a FALD display.

Sometimes on HDR10+ content, I wonder if it isn’t intentionally meant to make Samsung look better than LG OLED: If your black scenes are actually dark gray in the video itself, a Samsung FALD will look about the same as if the video had complete blacks, because it’ll be dark gray either way. But this way, the perfect blacks capabilities of OLED will not be seen. I noticed that both The Expanse and The Man in the High Castle on Amazon Prime Video seems to never have fully black blacks. Maybe just a silly conspiracy theory though, since I’ve noticed this in some Netflix Dolby Vision scenes too.

Anyway, if you’re worried about your calibration, try this HDR10 video:

Oh my TV, oh most of the scenes the sky background is perfect black or close enough to it that my eyes can’t tell the difference even in a pitch black room. Use Cinema mode for best out-of-box settings.
 
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Are other owners seeing motion stutters on 24P content from Netflix?

I’m seeing micro stutters periodically while watching The Witcher from my ATV4K and no combination of settings seems able to eliminate it.

I have the ATV set to match source frame rate, am watching in DV and 24P with Real Cinema is engaged.

Even with True Motion completely disabled I am getting tiny micro stutters every few minutes ... it’s somewhat distracting. More so as I had not been observing them previously.
I tried every setting as well and you just can’t win with the motion on this TV. I’ve been using 2 2 for a while but had to put it on 0 0 for the Witcher and that removed all problems. I’m just going to keep it on 0 0 from now on and suffer through panning scenes.
 

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Question, is the brightness setting in HDR10 and Dolby Vision at 50 correct, or does it need to be at 49? Sometimes black does not seem black.
I always thought 50 is the way to go. But yesterday i tested 49/48 for HDR10 and DV. It looks way better IMO. At 50 many content looks to greyish, like "the expanse" or "gravity".

I have the feeling that there is something wrong with the default gamma settings while HDR is on.
 

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Are other owners seeing motion stutters on 24P content from Netflix?

I’m seeing micro stutters periodically while watching The Witcher from my ATV4K and no combination of settings seems able to eliminate it.

I have the ATV set to match source frame rate, am watching in DV and 24P with Real Cinema is engaged.

Even with True Motion completely disabled I am getting tiny micro stutters every few minutes ... it’s somewhat distracting. More so as I had not been observing them previously.
I see them too on my ATV4K. But only on Netflix so far and i can swear that this is new. Maybe due to some update?
Btw i had tested the Nvidia Shield 2019 Pro, stutter is insanely bad on this device. At the moment i just use the internal Netflix app and Youtube app, for everything else i use the ATV4K.
 

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A few days ago I finally got my Samsung Q90 82” swapped out for a LG C9 77”. The difference is absolutely night-and-day. It is astounding just how much better the LG C9 is in virtually every way (only exception: motion processing), and even better in various ways beyond picture quality (though it’s superior out of box calibration and inherent picture quality superiority is the most obvious advantage you immediately notice).

First, on picture quality: The fireworks HDR demo video link I just posted above is a great example of how terrible the technology of FALD (full array local dimming) is vs OLED or individual pixel emissive displays. The fireworks look absolutely perfect on the OLED, with each dot individually lit. On the Samsung Q90, this video would be glitching or artifacting like crazy as the local dimming array struggles desperately to keep up but utterly fails because it simply cannot light these pixels the way this video content wants. As a result, you get weirdly flickering backlight blobs, horrible blooming, washed out blacks, suppressed firework highlights, etc. In contrast, the OLED is just amazingly perfect.

In normal video content, the color accuracy of the LG OLED puts the Samsung to shame in any modes vs the best settings I could possibly find for the Samsung short of a proper calibration. Skin tones would look shimmery orange on the Samsung, but are perfectly natural on the LG. Lens flares and highlights would have weird color banding issues on the Samsung, but perfectly smooth and correct color on the LG. And of course many scenes would crush shadow detail and small specular highlights on the Samsung, but are perfect on the LG.

Now beyond just picture quality, there are already several things the LG crucially does better: Obviously there’s the better HDMI support and adaptive refresh rate stuff, but I’m talking about something more important for movies — AVR integration. On my Samsung Q90, I never found a way to get it to reliably default sound output to my AVR through HDMI ARC. I would always have to go into settings and switch to it, and sometimes it wouldn’t even show up in settings! The LG C9 on the other hand has been 100% perfect: The sound output stays set to my AVR, and my AVR correctly turns on/ off with the TV every time. In contrast, the Samsung kept insisting on defaulting to its internal speakers every time it was turned off and on again.

Also, ironically, HDR10(+) content on the Samsung Q90 via the Amazon Prime Video app looks much worse than on the LG C9, if only because I had a weird app software glitch on the Samsung and Amazon Prime Video app where the scene brightness would randomly fluctuate between bright and dim spontaneously from time to time. I have not so far had this issue on the LG C9, nor have I ever seen it on my older LG B6.

So even the very best from Samsung cannot even come close to competing with LG OLED’s picture quality. Not even my 3 year old LG B6 for the most part, but the latest C9 just completely takes it to the next level.
 

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I always thought 50 is the way to go. But yesterday i tested 49/48 for HDR10 and DV. It looks way better IMO. At 50 many content looks to greyish, like "the expanse" or "gravity".

I have the feeling that there is something wrong with the default gamma settings while HDR is on.
I would not trust the gamma for any HDR10+ format to look correct on anything but a HDR10+ compatible TV (i.e. Samsung). This content was effectively mastered specifically to look optimal on Samsung and only Samsung TVs.

I suspect that when playing HDR10+ on the LG, it just plays the HDR10 portion without the metadata applied. I am very doubtful that Amazon Prime Video would store and deliver two entirely different versions of every video, when HDR10+ is really just HDR10 with some extra image settings adjustments baked into the metadata. I don’t know exactly what’s in the metadata, but gamma adjustments are probably a part of that.
 

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I see them too on my ATV4K. But only on Netflix so far and i can swear that this is new. Maybe due to some update?
Btw i had tested the Nvidia Shield 2019 Pro, stutter is insanely bad on this device. At the moment i just use the internal Netflix app and Youtube app, for everything else i use the ATV4K.
Yes I've really only observed them with 24P content on Netflix from the ATV and I've only noticed them recently as you mention. I even see them with True motion completely disabled. I recently also started getting audio dropouts from the ATV4K when hooked up through eARC and ended up moving it to my Denon AVR. I also watch a decent amount of 24p content from Plex or Infuse on my ATV4K and have not observed the stutters on that app/content so far.

It does seem that there is something going on between the ATV4K and the C9 that might be caused by the recent FW updates or app changes.

In general I haven't been too bothered by motion handling on the C9 although it's not nearly at the level of Sony. I consider myself pretty sensitive to minor motion problems but have found it overall to be pretty livable.

Micro stutters though are kind of irritating as I pick up on them almost instantly... my wife doesn't even notice them.
 

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I tried every setting as well and you just can’t win with the motion on this TV. I’ve been using 2 2 for a while but had to put it on 0 0 for the Witcher and that removed all problems. I’m just going to keep it on 0 0 from now on and suffer through panning scenes.
I usually use 2 2 or 3 3 myself and find it pretty good compromise between 24P judder and motion artifacts. I see the artifacts in Netflix 24P even with all motion processing disabled, so possibly there is something going on with ATV and the Netflix app... it almost looks like the 24P is coming from an interpolated source and when Netflix converts it to 24P it is resulting in frame drops or duplicated frames.

Annoying.

Why can't these app makers and hardware vendors give us the absolute perfection that we desire in 100% of our content?

:p
 

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Yes, firmwares are model specific and each region has their own models. (they share the same firmware base though)
But v04.71.05 is already available for all models via USB update. What model do you have exactly?
I just received a LG C9 65" yesterday and had read earlier that the update was not available in Europe yet but I guess they released it right on time for me. In the future say if the UK website is updated faster than the Finnish one, would I be able to use a firmware downloaded from the UK site or would it have some country specific features that won't work on my probably Nordic region model?
 

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I have to say though, I watched a film in hdr from my shield and played a lot of Jedi Fallen Order on my One X last night, and it looked fantastic. So I think I’ll just try and ignore all of the possible things that could be changed.
My advice: Do not look for errors, you will find them! Just enjoy your OLED TV. :cool:

Well then, I'm sure I can speak for everyone else here to say that we would be very glad if you could help us understand the various intricacies. That way we won't get lost as easily.
There are a lot of threads with a lot of pros dedicated to display calibrations here.

I fully agree with everything you said, but even with those issues the autocal calibration is far better than out of box and of course more time dealing with what you mention will get it better or using a pro.
First of all: there are of course undoubtedly panel variations. But LG's OLED TVs are calibrated at the factory and therefore usually already have very good dE values (< 3) in reference modes.
Therefore it is in general unfortunately not so easy to improve the picture quality noticeably. Especially if you do not have very expensive reference equipment.

Of course this looks a bit different if you have visible issues or if the panel has been replaced like in my case (in which case you 'lose' the factory calibration).

AutoCal has undoubtedly lowered the hurdle a bit, because you don't need an expensive pattern generator anymore. And CalMAN Home also offers a beginner-friendly calibration interface.
But I'm no longer sure if it was worth the $400 and exessive time investment and if I would recommend 'normal' users to jump on the calibration train.
 

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Are other owners seeing motion stutters on 24P content from Netflix?

I’m seeing micro stutters periodically while watching The Witcher from my ATV4K and no combination of settings seems able to eliminate it.

I have the ATV set to match source frame rate, am watching in DV and 24P with Real Cinema is engaged.

Even with True Motion completely disabled I am getting tiny micro stutters every few minutes ... it’s somewhat distracting. More so as I had not been observing them previously.
Did you try using the internal Netflix app instead? If not, try it and see if that removes the stutters.
 

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I just received a LG C9 65" yesterday and had read earlier that the update was not available in Europe yet but I guess they released it right on time for me. In the future say if the UK website is updated faster than the Finnish one, would I be able to use a firmware downloaded from the UK site or would it have some country specific features that won't work on my probably Nordic region model?
The region is not important as long as the model is correct. As you can see on the UK website the firmware you can download there is applicable to the following models:
OLED65W9PLA
OLED77W9PLA
OLED55E9PLA
OLED65E9PLA
OLED55E97LA
OLED65E97LA
OLED55C9PLA
OLED65C9PLA
OLED77C9PLA
OLED55C97LA
OLED65C97LA
OLED55C9MLB
OLED65C9MLB
OLED55C98LB
OLED65C98LB
So as long as your model is in this list then yes: you can simply download the firmware from the UK website and install it on your TV. And of course this also applies to any other LG support website and the firmware versions you can download there.
 
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Yes I've really only observed them with 24P content on Netflix from the ATV and I've only noticed them recently as you mention. I even see them with True motion completely disabled. I recently also started getting audio dropouts from the ATV4K when hooked up through eARC and ended up moving it to my Denon AVR. I also watch a decent amount of 24p content from Plex or Infuse on my ATV4K and have not observed the stutters on that app/content so far.

It does seem that there is something going on between the ATV4K and the C9 that might be caused by the recent FW updates or app changes.

In general I haven't been too bothered by motion handling on the C9 although it's not nearly at the level of Sony. I consider myself pretty sensitive to minor motion problems but have found it overall to be pretty livable.

Micro stutters though are kind of irritating as I pick up on them almost instantly... my wife doesn't even notice them.
I feel exactly the same way. I had Sony TVs before i got my C9 and i'm fine with the motion handling. But with stutters (even minor ones), i feel like someone is hammering a nail into my head.
 

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I always thought 50 is the way to go. But yesterday i tested 49/48 for HDR10 and DV. It looks way better IMO. At 50 many content looks to greyish, like "the expanse" or "gravity".
There are two things you need to separate, which are currently being mixed up.
1). The correct Brightness values are specific to your panel, which is why you should adjust for your panel using standard test patterns designed for that purpose, not content, and there are many helpful guides around for how to do this.
2). Sometimes, content is mastered with the darkness not being "true black". Rightly or wrongly, this is the way it is. You might call it a mistake, or director's intent, or a fault somewhere in the mastering process - none of that matters, and this is why you shouldn't use real content to adjust your TV. If you were to adjust your TV to make that content "black", you will not only spoil the correct settings for other content but worse - you will not be seeing what the Director Intended. Many of us are here for accuracy first, and taste second. :)

I have the feeling that there is something wrong with the default gamma settings while HDR is on.
Well "Gamma" is the curve which is only used for SDR :). For HDR10 and Dolby Vision, it's PQ :)
 
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