AVS Forum banner

2221 - 2240 of 2264 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Hello all and happy holidays.

What do you call these black artifacts?

Warrior Nun - Season 1, Episode 9 @ 13:30 where they are walking in the tunnel as shown in attachments.

This is calibrated with Colorspace using just an i1d3 on C9 DV Cinema Netflix internal app 2160p 15.25mbps.

I am also seeing this in some dark SDR, for example Warrior - Season 2, Episode 8 @ 29:10 when Mai Ling enters the stagecoach.

For those of you with high-end spectros/colorimeters, are you able to eliminate this or do you see the same thing?


Sent from my SM-F916U1 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,316 Posts
Hello all and happy holidays.

What do you call these black artifacts?

Warrior Nun - Season 1, Episode 9 @ 13:30 where they are walking in the tunnel as shown in attachments.

This is calibrated with Colorspace using just an i1d3 on C9 DV Cinema Netflix internal app 2160p 15.25mbps.

I am also seeing this in some dark SDR, for example Warrior - Season 2, Episode 8 @ 29:10 when Mai Ling enters the stagecoach.

For those of you with high-end spectros/colorimeters, are you able to eliminate this or do you see the same thing?


Sent from my SM-F916U1 using Tapatalk
I haven’t watched that show (my daughter has and told me it was [email protected]) but as I just happened to be browsing around Netflix when I saw this post, I just checked and I see that on my C9 too. So I popped upstairs and checked on my C7. It shows there too. It’s nowhere near as bad as you images show, but if I look at it through my camera it does look as bad as your pictures. Both of mine are calibrated with a K10-A profiled to a Jeti 1501 with the correct Relative Metadata from an external TPG (so not the iTPG). So it’s not your calibration at fault.

For what it’s worth, it also shows on my iPhone 12 Pro (although not as bad). I can’t see it on my iPad Pro, but of course that is an LCD and doesn’t have such deep black levels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EMINENT1

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Hello all and happy holidays.

What do you call these black artifacts?

Warrior Nun - Season 1, Episode 9 @ 13:30 where they are walking in the tunnel as shown in attachments.

This is calibrated with Colorspace using just an i1d3 on C9 DV Cinema Netflix internal app 2160p 15.25mbps.

I am also seeing this in some dark SDR, for example Warrior - Season 2, Episode 8 @ 29:10 when Mai Ling enters the stagecoach.

For those of you with high-end spectros/colorimeters, are you able to eliminate this or do you see the same thing?


Sent from my SM-F916U1 using Tapatalk
Something similar happens to me too (mainly SDR). I spotted them first on Warrior. To add to it I found some weird gray contours around faces against a dark background mainly, I am trying to find out what's the problem, as it does not happen with a non calibrated mode (SDR).

I do not think calibration is faulty as everything checks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EMINENT1

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,383 Posts
Hello all and happy holidays.

What do you call these black artifacts?

Warrior Nun - Season 1, Episode 9 @ 13:30 where they are walking in the tunnel as shown in attachments.

This is calibrated with Colorspace using just an i1d3 on C9 DV Cinema Netflix internal app 2160p 15.25mbps.

I am also seeing this in some dark SDR, for example Warrior - Season 2, Episode 8 @ 29:10 when Mai Ling enters the stagecoach.

For those of you with high-end spectros/colorimeters, are you able to eliminate this or do you see the same thing?


Sent from my SM-F916U1 using Tapatalk
That is posterization and there have been quite a few posts regarding this over the last few months. There is no fix for this except getting your panel or entire TV replaced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
I haven’t watched that show (my daughter has and told me it was [email protected]) but as I just happened to be browsing around Netflix when I saw this post, I just checked and I see that on my C9 too. So I popped upstairs and checked on my C7. It shows there too. It’s nowhere near as bad as you images show, but if I look at it through my camera it does look as bad as your pictures. Both of mine are calibrated with a K10-A profiled to a Jeti 1501 with the correct Relative Metadata from an external TPG (so not the iTPG). So it’s not your calibration at fault.

For what it’s worth, it also shows on my iPhone 12 Pro (although not as bad). I can’t see it on my iPad Pro, but of course that is an LCD and doesn’t have such deep black levels.
That is posterization and there have been quite a few posts regarding this over the last few months. There is no fix for this except getting your panel or entire TV replaced.
Thanks for confirming that it is the tv itself or source.

I was hoping that the more expensive tv purchase would have been a perfect one, but I can only hope I am alive and able to afford one that is someday.

Sent from my SM-F916U1 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Hi everybody, I'm looking at getting into calibration with the intention of calibrating my 65 inch C9 (and my PC monitors). However the more I read, the more confused and somewhat overwhelmed I feel.
Me and some work mates are looking at chipping in together for an iDisplay X-Rite Pro Plus calibrator. Would you recommend this, or advise against it?
I understand that the LG C9 comes with AutoCal and an internal pattern generator which is great, but I'm unsure whether its necessary to purchase Calman Home for LG?

Due to the extensiveness of this thread and the frequently changing of opinions throughout, can someone please help with understanding the process of calibrating using AutoCal - or point me in the right direction.


Thanks heaps in advance for your time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Deleted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,316 Posts
Thanks for confirming that it is the tv itself or source.

I was hoping that the more expensive tv purchase would have been a perfect one, but I can only hope I am alive and able to afford one that is someday.

Sent from my SM-F916U1 using Tapatalk
I did quickly check this scene using other Netflix source apps that uses LLDV only (Chromecast Ultra and Xbox Series X) and it appears in both of those too and is actually a lot worse.

I recently just finished watching the entire 8 Season box-set of Game of Thrones on UHD BluRay (Dolby Vision), and as everyone knows, some of those episodes are very dark. No such issues there (and highly recommended viewing). So on this occasion I would put the posterization down to the highly compressed (streamed) source content.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EMINENT1

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Has anyone checked the new LGC9 firmware SW File(Version 05.00.10)?
It is said to be important. I cant find out what changes it contains. The download to PC does not work.
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hello AVS. This is an incredibly helpful (and intimidating) thread, and it's helped me understand and appreciate the details that go into pro calibration. Bless you patient people.

While I'm not going pro or purchasing DIY gear, I am considering the Spears and Munsil 4k UHD Benchmark disc to punch things up.

I've read the Amazon reviews and realize most patterns are useless without pro gear, however some believe it's better than simply relying on Rtings and FlatPanelHD "calibration" suggestions.

So I respectfully ask the forum. If I take the time with the Spears and Munsil disc and online manual, is it worth my time and effort?

My C9 has nearly 8000 hours on it, and I use it with an Xbox One X/Series X, Panasonic 820 4K UHD player, streaming apps, DirecTV (with 4K), and the Samsung N950 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X soundbar, all in a dark living room. No PC usage.

Thank you to all who reply!

- Rob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Has anyone checked the new LGC9 firmware SW File(Version 05.00.10)?
It is said to be important. I cant find out what changes it contains. The download to PC does not work.
Chris
I have manually updated my C9 with the 05.00.10 firmware to try and remedy the slight black crush that I suspect started with the 05.00.03 firmware. It did not solve the black crush problem and I can't really say I've noticed any other difference either so unless you're experiencing any problems with your current firmware I wouldn't rush.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KC-Technerd

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,325 Posts
Hello AVS. This is an incredibly helpful (and intimidating) thread, and it's helped me understand and appreciate the details that go into pro calibration. Bless you patient people.

While I'm not going pro or purchasing DIY gear, I am considering the Spears and Munsil 4k UHD Benchmark disc to punch things up.

I've read the Amazon reviews and realize most patterns are useless without pro gear, however some believe it's better than simply relying on Rtings and FlatPanelHD "calibration" suggestions.

So I respectfully ask the forum. If I take the time with the Spears and Munsil disc and online manual, is it worth my time and effort?

My C9 has nearly 8000 hours on it, and I use it with an Xbox One X/Series X, Panasonic 820 4K UHD player, streaming apps, DirecTV (with 4K), and the Samsung N950 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X soundbar, all in a dark living room. No PC usage.

Thank you to all who reply!

- Rob
There is a large thread here on that disc. You may want to pop over there and browse through it. Without appropriate gear and software, there is nearly nothing you can do to "calibrate" HDR. For instance, clipping patterns for HDR cannot be used to set contrast by eye the same way they are for SDR, as clipping is a function of how your display's tone mapping is operating rather than where contrast is set. The disc does have a selection of SDR patterns, so if you do plan to obtain gear later, it might be a good way to future-proof yourself while being usable for SDR now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
I have manually updated my C9 with the 05.00.10 firmware to try and remedy the slight black crush that I suspect started with the 05.00.03 firmware. It did not solve the black crush problem and I can't really say I've noticed any other difference either so unless you're experiencing any problems with your current firmware I wouldn't rush.
I have to wonder if the slight black crush in SDR is a result of a deliberate (but poorly executed) attempt by LG to correct the elevated black that has long (always) occurred in HDR and DV when using custom 1D LUTs. When the black crush is occurring on SDR, the elevated black in custom 1D LUT HDR and DV is absent.

It's very frustrating that LG can't seem to nail down black level right at the waterline in all cases, or give us the ability to precisely adjust it without invalidating LUT calibration. It seems to frequently end up either too far submerged (dragging above black below the waterline with it), or out of the water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I have manually updated my C9 with the 05.00.10 firmware to try and remedy the slight black crush that I suspect started with the 05.00.03 firmware. It did not solve the black crush problem and I can't really say I've noticed any other difference either so unless you're experiencing any problems with your current firmware I wouldn't rush.
Thanks Callek. I will stay on 05.00.03 for a while. I have just about finished my Expert Dark calibration and now I have run a 1000 point verification with very good result. Nearly all green an only a few orange still under dE1,5. I am going to do a lot of real material testing an also use Ted's test patterns.
Christer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,305 Posts
Hello AVS. This is an incredibly helpful (and intimidating) thread, and it's helped me understand and appreciate the details that go into pro calibration. Bless you patient people.

While I'm not going pro or purchasing DIY gear, I am considering the Spears and Munsil 4k UHD Benchmark disc to punch things up.

I've read the Amazon reviews and realize most patterns are useless without pro gear, however some believe it's better than simply relying on Rtings and FlatPanelHD "calibration" suggestions.

So I respectfully ask the forum. If I take the time with the Spears and Munsil disc and online manual, is it worth my time and effort?

My C9 has nearly 8000 hours on it, and I use it with an Xbox One X/Series X, Panasonic 820 4K UHD player, streaming apps, DirecTV (with 4K), and the Samsung N950 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X soundbar, all in a dark living room. No PC usage.

Thank you to all who reply!

- Rob
There's just not much to adjust on a C9 that the benchmark disc can help you with. Brightness and Contrast in SDR is really the only thing I can think of where it might give you some advantage over using the default settings. However you can set those with brightness and contrast patterns from other sources, such as AVS 709, or the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc. The UHD HDR disc is great for evaluation and has some great HDR and Dolby Vision demo material, but it's not really going to help you "punch things up." If you're using the best picture modes and have disabled image enhancing/processing settings, the C9 is very close to as accurate as you can get out of the box, way more so than TVs of 15 or more years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Thanks Callek. I will stay on 05.00.03 for a while. I have just about finished my Expert Dark calibration and now I have run a 1000 point verification with very good result. Nearly all green an only a few orange still under dE1,5. I am going to do a lot of real material testing an also use Ted's test patterns.
Christer
I'm sure it's going to look great!
When you have the time could you see if you're getting black crush on level 17 / 0.5% with Brightness at 50?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
There is a large thread here on that disc. You may want to pop over there and browse through it. Without appropriate gear and software, there is nearly nothing you can do to "calibrate" HDR. For instance, clipping patterns for HDR cannot be used to set contrast by eye the same way they are for SDR, as clipping is a function of how your display's tone mapping is operating rather than where contrast is set. The disc does have a selection of SDR patterns, so if you do plan to obtain gear later, it might be a good way to future-proof yourself while being usable for SDR now.
Ooh, I didn't see that thread. I'll definitely dig deeper. Thank you.

To follow-up, at the time of sale, the rep did comment how there wasn't any HDR calibration I could do on my own and essentially pointed me online bc of budget. 8000 hours later, here we are.

My first first OLED, it blew me away. But as a minor-league videophile, there are certainly blemishes I see that others could give two poops about, and I've always wondered...

...Should I just get the Spears and Munsil. I know it's bargain basement "calibration", but I think I can pull off better SDR and bonus, pretty 4K demos! But if not this TV the next, I'll certainly hire a pro before trying to DIY.

Anyway, thanks for helping me work this out. 👍
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
There's just not much to adjust on a C9 that the benchmark disc can help you with. Brightness and Contrast in SDR is really the only thing I can think of where it might give you some advantage over using the default settings. However you can set those with brightness and contrast patterns from other sources, such as AVS 709, or the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark disc. The UHD HDR disc is great for evaluation and has some great HDR and Dolby Vision demo material, but it's not really going to help you "punch things up." If you're using the best picture modes and have disabled image enhancing/processing settings, the C9 is very close to as accurate as you can get out of the box, way more so than TVs of 15 or more years ago.
Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. I'm like, meh... The images are so good on ISF Dark with minimal tweaks and processing minimized-to-off, I'd be paying $40 for demos. ...Which I'm not opposed to! 😫. How many demos did you say? Ha. Jk.

I've read reviews that essentially say the same, that the final adjustments are more or less a combo of Rings and FPHD suggestions. And at that point, it's a battle of my eye vs imperfections of my unique TV.

Out of curiosity, is their a simple answer to why panels are so unique beyond human variables like environment or wiring?

And fun fact, years ago I did sales for a quick spell at the now defunct Tweeter (shout out to all my East Coasters). It was kinda Magnolia before Magnolia existed. Flagship plasmas and LCDs, crazy sound systems, I fell in love with hi-end gear there.

Anyway, thanks for the info!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I'm sure it's going to look great!
When you have the time could you see if you're getting black crush on level 17 / 0.5% with Brightness at 50?
I also found this problem in a friend of mine's C9 in Italy and on my Lg E9, now I'm testing it with other Italian users.

Forgive my poor English but I will try to explain the problem with the hope of being understandable.

The Near Black problem does not change the performance of a Lut3D 1000 points evaluation, it is a problem that is difficult to observe even during movies, only near black it is possible to observe a difficulty in the management of the first levels as well highlighted by the photos of the Ted's tunnel pattern.

Now I can say with certainty that the problem is with the firmware, even if not all users have the same situation, for example Liberator does not have this problem on his C9.

I asked my Cat LG to evaluate the situation but they had no solution so I bought by paying for a new motherboard, it was mounted and I stopped the Fimware at 04.70.05, for 10 days of testing it always worked perfectly but I had to understand which was the cause of the problem and so I loaded the Lut3D with ColourSpace, for another 10 days I did tests and the operation was perfect, then I installed the new firmware 05.00.03 and during the evening the problem occurred on the near black, so the main one firmware is suspected.

At this point I had two motherboards with the same firmware and the same problem, now the Cat was available to replace for free the motherboard I had purchased 30 days earlier, with the new motherboard and firmware 04.70.05 the near black is perfect , unfortunately I cannot take advantage of the WebOs and I find this not very acceptable but I accept it for having a perfect Near black.

Now I try to explain what the problem was like:
The problem on the Near Black on the original motherboard appeared in random mode, completely random, sometimes the TV started up correctly, other times it didn't, when it starts up wrong sometimes it is enough to turn it off and on again, other times you need to disconnect also the plug from the mains.

When the panel works badly 17 or 0.5% is black where the source works in 4.4.4 or 4.2.0, from internal App (plex) or from Hard Disck on which I have loaded the Ted tunnel pattern, while in mode 4.2.2 17 can be seen slightly but the levels are not separated as they should be and in any case even if visible it is not at the same level of cleanliness and visibility as the correct operation, but the most boring thing is that a flash appears on level 18 and 19.

When the problem occurs to highlight the 17 or 0.5%, the Brightness must be raised to 53 but the operation is not perfect anyway as the Flashing on 18 and 19 is visible (in normal or correct operation it is not present no trace of Flashing)

Incorrect or insert problem by firmware

Correct

I tried to improve the exposure of the camera using 30 sec and aperture F5, of course the brighter areas have had a greater increase in light exponentially but this photo gives a better idea of correct operation with Brightness 50

Correct

Incorrect or insert problem by Firmware

If you can take some tests and see if the problem is generalized we could ask LG for a Fix of the problem or Firmware Bug, I believe that the offending Firmware could be 04.71.05
 
  • Like
Reactions: Callek and T( )( )L

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,316 Posts
I also found this problem in a friend of mine's C9 in Italy and on my Lg E9, now I'm testing it with other Italian users.

Forgive my poor English but I will try to explain the problem with the hope of being understandable.

The Near Black problem does not change the performance of a Lut3D 1000 points evaluation, it is a problem that is difficult to observe even during movies, only near black it is possible to observe a difficulty in the management of the first levels as well highlighted by the photos of the Ted's tunnel pattern.

Now I can say with certainty that the problem is with the firmware, even if not all users have the same situation, for example Liberator does not have this problem on his C9.

I asked my Cat LG to evaluate the situation but they had no solution so I bought by paying for a new motherboard, it was mounted and I stopped the Fimware at 04.70.05, for 10 days of testing it always worked perfectly but I had to understand which was the cause of the problem and so I loaded the Lut3D with ColourSpace, for another 10 days I did tests and the operation was perfect, then I installed the new firmware 05.00.03 and during the evening the problem occurred on the near black, so the main one firmware is suspected.

At this point I had two motherboards with the same firmware and the same problem, now the Cat was available to replace for free the motherboard I had purchased 30 days earlier, with the new motherboard and firmware 04.70.05 the near black is perfect , unfortunately I cannot take advantage of the WebOs and I find this not very acceptable but I accept it for having a perfect Near black.

Now I try to explain what the problem was like:
The problem on the Near Black on the original motherboard appeared in random mode, completely random, sometimes the TV started up correctly, other times it didn't, when it starts up wrong sometimes it is enough to turn it off and on again, other times you need to disconnect also the plug from the mains.

When the panel works badly 17 or 0.5% is black where the source works in 4.4.4 or 4.2.0, from internal App (plex) or from Hard Disck on which I have loaded the Ted tunnel pattern, while in mode 4.2.2 17 can be seen slightly but the levels are not separated as they should be and in any case even if visible it is not at the same level of cleanliness and visibility as the correct operation, but the most boring thing is that a flash appears on level 18 and 19.

When the problem occurs to highlight the 17 or 0.5%, the Brightness must be raised to 53 but the operation is not perfect anyway as the Flashing on 18 and 19 is visible (in normal or correct operation it is not present no trace of Flashing)

Incorrect or insert problem by firmware

Correct

Correct

Incorrect or insert problem by Firmware

If you can take some tests and see if the problem is generalized we could ask LG for a Fix of the problem or Firmware Bug, I believe that the offending Firmware could be 04.71.05
Hi @mikigio

Following our recent conversation (and the one I have had with @Callek ), I have been checking this at various times on a daily basis.

After updating to the latest official FW of 05.00.10, I did initially see this issue exactly how you describe in that 17 was not visible.

However, after unplugging the TV for several minutes and checking again, I have yet been unable to reproduce it. I can take some more pictures for you if you like, but they will only show what they did before. 17 is always visible for me with the default Brightness value of 50, and all steps thereafter rise in the expected manner.

I agree that this seems very strange and definitely seems like something that has been introduced with a FW update that affects some panels more than others.

I will continue to monitor and update you if I see any changes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Callek
2221 - 2240 of 2264 Posts
Top