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Hi John,

I asked from David Abrams to let me know what really happened, the plan was to perform 3D LUT with LG, he performed... but because the results where not so good, and there was not such free time available... the LG at the end had been calibrated for SDR manually.

LG had been calibrated manually @ HDTVtest 2019 shootout for SDR also.
We had an interesting discussion concerning your post last night. This was two TV shootouts ago in 2018 and none of us remember exactlywhat happened with the LG. You can go ahead and verify this. I do remember clearly for that event we had only one day to do the set up and calibration since we held it at the store. I calibrated the two Sony's, Tyler did the Samsung and Dave calibrated the two BVM's and the LG. I remember a new 3D LUT being built and loaded on the LG for ISF Dark and then I believe Tyler did a manual calibration of ISF Bright and HDR. The reason why we ran out of time was because the rental company sent us a BVM without the HDMI connection so we had to get an adaptor and wait for a 2nd BVM to arrive which then Dave had to calibrate both. Also the two Sony's had just been released so we were having some issues with them as well. I can say with certainty that we looked at the LG after calibration along with the rest of the sets and felt it looked fine otherwise we would have stayed up all night working it. I assumed that Dave might have used LS in some capacity, maybe to do some validation since he had the software but that didn't happen. We were all working in parallel trying to get everything done to ensure all the sets looked their best. I hope this ends this discussion since there is nothing more to say.
 
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We had an interesting discussion concerning your post last night. This was two TV shootouts ago in 2018 and none of us remember exactlywhat happened with the LG. You can go ahead and verify this. I do remember clearly for that event we had only one day to do the set up and calibration since we held it at the store. I calibrated the two Sony's, Tyler did the Samsung and Dave calibrated the two BVM's and the LG. I remember a new 3D LUT being built and loaded on the LG for ISF Dark and then I believe Tyler did a manual calibration of ISF Bright and HDR. The reason why we ran out of time was because the rental company sent us a BVM without the HDMI connection so we had to get an adaptor and wait for a 2nd BVM to arrive which then Dave had to calibrate both. Also the two Sony's had just been released so we were having some issues with them as well. I can say with certainty that we looked at the LG after calibration along with the rest of the sets and felt it looked fine otherwise we would have stayed up all night working it. I assumed that Dave might have used LS in some capacity, maybe to do some validation since he had the software but that didn't happen. We were all working in parallel trying to get everything done to ensure all the sets looked their best. I hope this ends this discussion since there is nothing more to say.
OK, so now you are not remember well what happened, but before some days you said:

''Well it’s interesting because Dave Abrams calibrated the LG at the shootout we did at the store. He built a new large 3D LUT
And I believe he did validation with LS and the LG didn’t win despite superior technical results.
''

When I said that I will ask David about what really happened you confirmed that you had already talked with David:

''Ted you are entitled to your opinions and don’t bother I already spoke to Dave.''

So after I talked with David, he confirmed that its been used manual cal, so any other detail doesn't change the fact that LG had finally calibrated with normal menu calibration controls and not with internal LUT capabilities using a volumetric profiling. I don't have nothing other to say for this discussion.

Interesting that Tyler used manual cal for HDR or SDR Bright and not AutoCAL.
 

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Ted, believe what you want to believe. You were not there so you have no idea what went into the decisions we made and you can't look them up. I don't see you participating in any of the TV Shootouts. I wonder why that is? Instead of letting this go since you made your point several posts ago, your response shows that you have an agenda and you disagree with everyone you don't like. What a shame. :(
John, I don't understand really your post. I just pointing that you say diff. stuff each time, nothing more. One day you say that they performed 3D LUT, the other day you say you are not remember well.

As I wanted to see if its been used 3D LUT or not, I asked David and you saw the results... David say No, you said ''Yes with CalMAN''. (but David calibrated the LG, not you.)

I don't care about any shootout, I see no reason to participate, even if everything is paid (hotel, travel etc.)

I believe what David is saying basically, as you don't remember or have an agenda to say that its used CalMAN with 3D LUT. (as you said to me to not bother to find out speaking with David as you have already spoken).
 

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John, I don't understand really your post. I just pointing that you say diff. stuff each time, nothing more. One day you say that they performed 3D LUT, the other day you say you are not remember well.

As I wanted to see if its been used 3D LUT or not, I asked David and you saw the results... David say No, you said ''Yes with CalMAN''. (but David calibrated the LG, not you.)

I don't care about any shootout, I see no reason to participate, even if everything is paid (hotel, travel etc.)

I believe what David is saying basically, as you don't remember or have an agenda to say that its used CalMAN with 3D LUT. (as you said to me to not bother to find out speaking with David as you have already spoken).
Ted, can we just agree to disagree and just drop the discussion and move on please?
 
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Ted, can we just agree to disagree and just drop the discussion and move on please?
I don't see that, I see that only you have provided some inaccurate info which when I asked to find out, it came up that 3D LUT was not used with the LG, so basically the only incorrect info came from your end.

Are you still believe that 3D LUT was used? If you believe this, then you can recommend for us to agree to disagree etc. Case closed.
 

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LG Hidden Diagnostics Menu's

LG's 2019 have a secret menu with some valuable info which can help for trouble solving or for checking some additional stuff.

To access that secret menu, using the TV remove, you have to go to Channels Menu and highlight the 'Channel Tuning':



After that, press several times the '1' number from the LG's remote control... and the Host Diagnostics screen will appear:



From there you can select the 2 additional screens, highlight the HDMI or More (for Wi-Fi):

Wi-Fi:



HDMI Diagnostics:



If you want to see what colorspace/chroma sub-sampling or bit-depth your TV is receiving from HDMI Input, its a good way to find out from that HDMI Diagnostic Screen.

Some examples about how that HDMI info can be useful:

1) You can see what is your video output details your player is sending when you select from your player 'Auto' output settings.

2) If your player goes thru your AVR, to see if something is changed there to your video signal. (when you will compare the results with the player direct connected to TV)

3) If your player don't have output colorspace settings, to see the video signal details per each different resolution you will send to the TV.

4) To confirm if the player is outputting the video settings according to your video output selections and not doing at-its-own.

5) When something to your video chain is changing the frame-rate or colorspace.

...or other kind of testing.

BTW it will be helpful if LG can add the info for the whole HDR10 metadata info TV is receiving, to be able to see Mastering Metadata (Mastering Display Color Volume & Content Metadata) or each movie you will playback.

Basically LG has to make available this menu to the normal TV menu, not make it only available like an 'Easter egg' hidden menu.
 

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LG Hidden Diagnostics Menu's

LG's 2019 have a secret menu with some valuable info which can help for trouble solving or for checking some additional stuff.

To access that secret menu, using the TV remove, you have to go to Channels Menu and highlight the 'Channel Tuning':



After that, press several times the '1' number from the LG's remote control... and the Host Diagnostics screen will appear:



From there you can select the 2 additional screens, highlight the HDMI or More (for Wi-Fi):

Wi-Fi:



HDMI Diagnostics:



If you want to see what colorspace/chroma sub-sampling or bit-depth your TV is receiving from HDMI Input, its a good way to find out from that HDMI Diagnostic Screen.

Some examples about how that HDMI info can be useful:

1) You can see what is your video output details your player is sending when you select from your player 'Auto' output settings.

2) If your player goes thru your AVR, to see if something is changed there to your video signal. (when you will compare the results with the player direct connected to TV)

3) If your player don't have output colorspace settings, to see the video signal details per each different resolution you will send to the TV.

4) To confirm if the player is outputting the video settings according to your video output selections and not doing at-its-own.

5) When something to your video chain is changing the frame-rate or colorspace.

...or other kind of testing.

BTW it will be helpful if LG can add the info for the whole HDR10 metadata info TV is receiving, to be able to see Mastering Metadata (Mastering Display Color Volume & Content Metadata) or each movie you will playback.

Basically LG has to make available this menu to the normal TV menu, not make it only available like an 'Easter egg' hidden menu.
I wonder does this work when trying to see info about what a ps4 or xbox is showing on our tvs I have a lg c9

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

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LG Hidden Diagnostics Menu's

LG's 2019 have a secret menu with some valuable info which can help for trouble solving or for checking some additional stuff.



Keep in mind that this screen will not always be 100% accurate. If you output a 10-bit HDR10 signal it will still be reported as 8-bit. But you can verify if you are getting the correct signal with test patterns.




I wonder does this work when trying to see info about what a ps4 or xbox is showing on our tvs I have a lg c9

Yes it works for any HDMI input.
 

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I wonder does this work when trying to see info about what a ps4 or xbox is showing on our tvs I have a lg c9
Sure, it will work with any HDMI connected device. There no limitation.

Just when someone will send DoVi signal, it will be normal to see recognized the video signal as RGB 8-bit SDR signal, as Dolby's eCMU HDMI Tunneling is using an RGB 8-bit full range 'special' signal as a wrapper, to include inside YCbCr 12-bit with dynamic metadata per frame (BTW studios are using 'per scene' metadata currently during color grading).
 

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Keep in mind that this screen will not always be 100% accurate. If you output a 10-bit HDR10 signal it will still be reported as 8-bit. But you can verify if you are getting the correct signal with test patterns.
What player and what output settings have you used when you saw recognized as 8-bit?

It can happen, if you send YCbCr 4:2:2 to be a problem with bit-depth recognition, as there no CEA Video Information Code (VIC) to make sink (TV) to know what bit-depth you are sending.

The same issue is happening with HD Fury devices also, if you send 2160p 4:4:4 12-bit, they report it as 12-bit... but if you send 2160p 12-bit 4:2:2 it says 'up to 12bit'.
 

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What player and what output settings have you used when you saw recognized as 8-bit?

It can happen, if you send YCbCr 4:2:2 to be a problem with bit-depth recognition, as there no CEA Video Information Code (VIC) to make sink (TV) to know what bit-depth you are sending.

The same issue is happening with HD Fury devices also, if you send 2160p 4:4:4 12-bit, they report it as 12-bit... but if you send 2160p 12-bit 4:2:2 it says 'up to 12bit'.
Oppo 203 with 4:2:2 output. Using 4:4:4 is not recommended because the display will downconvert it to 4:2:2 first and that just adds unnecessary conversions.
 

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Oppo 203 with 4:2:2 output. Using 4:4:4 is not recommended because the display will downconvert it to 4:2:2 first and that just adds unnecessary conversions.
There no problem with OPPO or the LG TV, just its a specific limitation of HDMI/CEA/CTA specs. when you will send 4:2:2 only, your HDR10 signal will be 10/12 bit (based to your player output) just the TV can't recognize the bit-depth info only, no big deal and it will not affect your signal.
 

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I've attached the 3D LUTs of both calibrations in case you want to look a bit closer what actually happened.

The one for the bright room was done with the previously described parameters (10000 points).
Hi,

About the two 3dl files you have uploaded from your IR Profilings using CalMAN here, when I looked you files by importing them into LightSpace... I saw a difference to the levels of the generated data and it came up that difference I had reported at past: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-...r-settings-no-price-talk-35.html#post56525020

There were some earlier versions of CalMAN 2018 where the generated 3dl files had 64-1023 levels, this changed at some point and all the files I have seen from CalMAN 2019 were all 0-1023 for LG.

For that reason I asked you to check if you see something wrong with your near black:

Hi, I'm looking your files, I will post later.

Have you checked your black level with real content or via measurements to see if its OK after loading the 3D LUT file?

I see something strange to your ISF Dark 3D LUT. Can you measure your black level?
...as if its been uploaded 64-1023 LUT but the TV expecting 0-1023 LUT, then your black's should look as 6.3% Gray.

But as you confirmed:

Thanks, I really appreciate your effort!

I've just re-checked my currently calibrated isf Dark Mode and it looks fine. A black test video is entirely black (display is not emitting any light) and the near black performance is fine as well.
The only thing that could have happened is that I've attached the wrong 3dl file. But it's the only 3dl file I've got which has the same file date as the cpfx created in the calibration session - so it should be the correct one?
...that your blacks were OK, this means that CalMAN identified and scaled the levels of that file from 64-1023 -> 0-1023 during upload. (or during upload was correct and the saving is incorrect...only the coder can find out, not me)

But the question is why CalMAN saved 64-1023 3dl file for your ISF-Dark (I named as CalMAN 100 nits) and 0-1023 3dl file for your ISF-Day (I named as CalMAN 250 nits)...the same time all the 3dl files other users have uploaded from CalMAN 2019 with 2018/2019 LG's, all the files were 0-1023 as TV want that kind of levels.

You can see the level difference to the animated picture (APNG) below.... its the 1D LUT Viewer of LightSpace, zoomed to 0-20% area only:




Probably Tyler can take a look about why this happened.
 

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I just acquired an LG OLED B9 display, and have used HCFR and an X-rite i1Display to calibrate for SDR. When calibrating 10-point greyscale, the TV shows target values for luminance for each IRE. However, these values differ from the target Y values shown in HCFR. Which should I use when calibrating? I'm using rec709 and gamma 2.2.

(The TV only shows target luminanc for ISF Bright room. For ISF Dark room it is fixed at 100 for every IRE. Is that a bug?)

Also: What is the best strategy to get the colors accurate? I have managed to get an almost perfect grey scale, but the color measurements are still a bit off.

And: Can I use HCFR to calibrate HDR as well? I was a bit bummed when I realized that the B9 does not support the automatic Calman workflow? (Why doesn't it?)

Finally: How do you calibrate for the TV-apps like Netflix (not using an external source)? How do you show test patterns on the screen without an external input?
 

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Calman Home Brightness & Contrast C9

Hi all,

I'm a complete newbie to this but am having a bit of a problem with the LG edition of Calman. I've been able to successfully complete an Autocal for ISF day and night but when I get to the part where I click on brightness or contrast I don't see any test patterns from the iTPG and I'm not sure that the controls in Calman are actually doing anything.

Am I being totally daft or does this not actually work in Calman Home for LG? Also, would adjusting manually using a test pattern on DVD etc. invalidate the AutoCal?

Hope this isn't too much of a silly question!

Best
Simon
 

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Most companies do this. They need to differentiate between the product lines. They can't do anything about the picture quality in the OLED panel. So, they give extra features in higher models.
 

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Hi all,



I'm a complete newbie to this but am having a bit of a problem with the LG edition of Calman. I've been able to successfully complete an Autocal for ISF day and night but when I get to the part where I click on brightness or contrast I don't see any test patterns from the iTPG and I'm not sure that the controls in Calman are actually doing anything.



Am I being totally daft or does this not actually work in Calman Home for LG? Also, would adjusting manually using a test pattern on DVD etc. invalidate the AutoCal?



Hope this isn't too much of a silly question!



Best

Simon


Because of the place of the pattern generator in the video pipeline you need to use external brightness and contrast patterns, For example from the Spears and Munsil line of test discs.
 

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To clear the air:

At 2019 HDTVTEST shootout, Vincent pre-calibrated all of the SDR night mode calibrations before we arrived using manual calibration techniques on all TVs.

I then used CalMAN LUT based autoCAL for these presets:

SDR Day Mode
HDR Cinema Mode
HDR Game Mode
SDR Game mode.

The LG C9 won both HDR and Gaming categories and overall.
 

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It's a better idea to include that link to the iTPG guide of CalMAN's portal, which is the official support area, the link here (while is useful) it will be 5-10 pages old after one month. (not easy to find)

You have to add a note to iTPG users which will run IR Profiling (or to workflow), to use always the 10H video, as the procedure measure a lot of colors and takes more than 1 hour to complete.
The 10H hour video as I suggested to Tyler, its been added to the official page of LG iTPG for all users: https://calmankb.groovehq.com/help/lg-2019-internal-pattern-generator
 

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I tested the hidden menu on my c9 with my ps4 pro and xbox one x using g hdr and the ps4 pro constantly said 8 bit while the xbox one x said 10bit

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