AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 328 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
New owner of the P659-G1 here and I haven’t seen any other dedicated threads yet. For starters, I’m coming from a Samsung 5300 plasma that’s had picture issues for the last few years so needless to say, the Vizio is a huge upgrade for me.

Unboxing and setup was simple. I’m using a Denon AVR-4400 and the Xfinity 4K cable box in my chain. Everything (I think) is communicating properly. Netflix from the cable box displays with 4K HDR on the TV and Netflix from the in-TV app displays with Dolby Vision. So check those boxes. ARC through HDMI seems to be seamless as it’s all working. I only have a 4.0 setup though so I can’t test for Atmos or some fancier surround processing.

Picture impressions by me, a typical amateur TV viewer, are good. First off, I only got this thing setup late last night and I don’t own an HDR DVD player. The TV has built in test patterns but I haven’t had a chance to run through them yet. I put the TV in ‘calibrated’ mode and haven’t yet made any other adjustments. The picture is bright, it looks good, and I don’t have too many criticisms.

I put on Our Planet to try and assess the picture. For normal TV viewing (about 1.5 hours of watching), I did not notice any anomalies related to local dimming. Transitions and scene changes looked smooth. The only local dimming anomaly occurred on an all gray loading screen that had a white circle in the middle with a black area of the whole circle going around the circle. In that case, you could see each one of the local zones flickering on and off. But that never occurred in real-life viewing.

Off axis viewing did highlight some imperfections. Standing around 13 ft from the screen and stepping ~8 feet to the side you notice a fairly visible shift in contrast. It’s not terrible, my wife would never notice, but I do. I do think that as you go even more off axis from there it does t seem to get that much worse. To me there was this point where you notice that it’s deteriorated, but then it more or less holds there. Minor annoyance but I knew what I was getting with LCD.

The only other anomaly was some very very minor banding. There was a scene in Our Planet in the desert, where the screen is tan color from a dust storm. In that instance, I saw a couple very faint bands when I was off axis. This would never be noticed by the casual observer, but I saw it. For me, I’m not worried at all by it. It took a very specific screen picture and off-axis viewing to see it.

So, there are some early observations. What else can I do to help the forum? Not sure if anyone else owns this thing yet. Are there any tests that I’m able to run to help unlock some mystery about the panel? Happy to oblige when I can.

Thanks all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
There are scenes you can run, or videos you can find that would act as torture teats for DSE, banding, fald issues and backlight uniformity. Or you can just put on a hockey game.

But I'd never demand or even recommend someone go looking for flaws unless they're interested or inclined to do so. Especially if you like what you see so far.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
Congrats to your new TV and sharing your initial impressions. There has been some sharing of updates in the Vizio 2019 Quantum Dots thread. There are 2-3 videos from a controversial Youtuber who has bought the set and done side by sides vs Q8FN. Looking forward to more reviews and impressions.

Tend to agree. If you like the picture dont go looking for trouble. ;)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I’ve run into one issue and hopefully someone familiar with Vizio and compatibility issues can help. I went to the rtings setting for the 2018 PQ for ideas and ran across the suggestion to turn on ‘full UHD color’ in the input menu. Now, the TV had already said HDR10 when watching Our Planet through the Netflix App on the cable box with this set to off (I suspect the Xfinity box can’t pass Dolby Vision), so I wasn’t sure if the full UHD setting actually did anything. However, turning on full UHD color did fix another issue, which is when I select ‘enhanced 4K’ in the Denon 4400 (instead of standard), the Denon no longer gave me an error that the TV didn’t support enhanced. Unfortunately, after selecting ‘enhanced’ in the Denon, the picture died and I get no signal through the HDMI input. I can rectify the no signal by either turning off ‘full UHD color’ in the Vizio or switching the Denon back to ‘standard’ 4K.

So, there are a couple things to test. One, there is a chance that my HDMI cables (purchased ~4.5 years ago) don’t have high enough bandwidth to support this. However, would I be able to get 4K HDR10 in the first place, which I can get according to the info being displayed by the TV if I had cables that weren’t high enough bandwidth?

Second, is there just some kind of compatibility issue between enabling ‘enhanced’ on the Denon and ‘full UHD color’ on the Vizio? Rtings does make a comment that enabling full UHD color “may cause compatibility issues with older devices.”

Where does that leave me? What exactly am I seeing picture-wise with the Denon on ‘standard’ and full UHD color set to ‘off’? The TV is telling me 2160p HDR10....so am I actually missing anything? Or can I just chalk this up as a compatibility anomaly that isn’t actually impacting the picture quality?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Attached are two images using the TVs internal test pattern. My guess is that this is about as bad a torture test that you can do to test for banding. It’s there, but it’s not that bad. In regular viewing you need some very specific screen conditions to see it. Also, I’d point out that there’s virtually no vignetting and certainly nothing that appears in regular viewing.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
I’ve run into one issue and hopefully someone familiar with Vizio and compatibility issues can help. I went to the rtings setting for the 2018 PQ for ideas and ran across the suggestion to turn on ‘full UHD color’ in the input menu. Now, the TV had already said HDR10 when watching Our Planet through the Netflix App on the cable box with this set to off (I suspect the Xfinity box can’t pass Dolby Vision), so I wasn’t sure if the full UHD setting actually did anything. However, turning on full UHD color did fix another issue, which is when I select ‘enhanced 4K’ in the Denon 4400 (instead of standard), the Denon no longer gave me an error that the TV didn’t support enhanced. Unfortunately, after selecting ‘enhanced’ in the Denon, the picture died and I get no signal through the HDMI input. I can rectify the no signal by either turning off ‘full UHD color’ in the Vizio or switching the Denon back to ‘standard’ 4K.

So, there are a couple things to test. One, there is a chance that my HDMI cables (purchased ~4.5 years ago) don’t have high enough bandwidth to support this. However, would I be able to get 4K HDR10 in the first place, which I can get according to the info being displayed by the TV if I had cables that weren’t high enough bandwidth?

Second, is there just some kind of compatibility issue between enabling ‘enhanced’ on the Denon and ‘full UHD color’ on the Vizio? Rtings does make a comment that enabling full UHD color “may cause compatibility issues with older devices.”

Where does that leave me? What exactly am I seeing picture-wise with the Denon on ‘standard’ and full UHD color set to ‘off’? The TV is telling me 2160p HDR10....so am I actually missing anything? Or can I just chalk this up as a compatibility anomaly that isn’t actually impacting the picture quality?
Turning on full UHD color only impacts external inputs. That is why you were already getting Netflix HDR from the internal app. The enhanced setting on the AVR is similar to the full UHD color setting on the TV, both need to be enabled in order to pass and receive HDR.

Your older cables might be the issue that is holding you back from getting HDR from external sources, you need 18gb/s cables to properly pass HDR. Monoprice sells popular HDMI cables that will do the job for about $6 each. Amazon Basics and Mediabridge also have cheap cables that will do the job. Make sure they are 18gb/s capable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
Turning on full UHD color only impacts external inputs. That is why you were already getting Netflix HDR from the internal app. The enhanced setting on the AVR is similar to the full UHD color setting on the TV, both need to be enabled in order to pass and receive HDR.

Your older cables might be the issue that is holding you back from getting HDR from external sources, you need 18gb/s cables to properly pass HDR. Monoprice sells popular HDMI cables that will do the job for about $6 each. Amazon Basics and Mediabridge also have cheap cables that will do the job. Make sure they are 18gb/s capable.
sorry I misread your original post. How do you have the cable box connected? Via the AVR or direct to the TV?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. When playing Netflix through the cable box app, the TV is telling me it’s displaying 2160p HDR10. Even though the Denon is set to standard and the TV input has full UHD disabled. I found something online that suggested you don’t need full UHD enabled in order to get HDR from all sources, “just most.” If the TV says HDR10 when pressing the info button is there a chance that it’s not full HDR10? Or would the TV not say it if it wasn’t true?

Your older cables might be the issue that is holding you back from getting HDR from external sources, you need 18gb/s cables to properly pass HDR. Monoprice sells popular HDMI cables that will do the job for about $6 each. Amazon Basics and Mediabridge also have cheap cables that will do the job. Make sure they are 18gb/s capable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Cable box to AVR, then AVR to TV.

Turning on full UHD color only impacts external inputs. That is why you were already getting Netflix HDR from the internal app. The enhanced setting on the AVR is similar to the full UHD color setting on the TV, both need to be enabled in order to pass and receive HDR.

Your older cables might be the issue that is holding you back from getting HDR from external sources, you need 18gb/s cables to properly pass HDR. Monoprice sells popular HDMI cables that will do the job for about $6 each. Amazon Basics and Mediabridge also have cheap cables that will do the job. Make sure they are 18gb/s capable.
sorry I misread your original post. How do you have the cable box connected? Via the AVR or direct to the TV?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
And to clarify, my cables are “Perfect Path 1000 series, high speed HDMI with Ethernet.” Pretty sure they came from monoprice.

Attached is a pic of what the TV is telling me it’s displaying which leads me to believe I’m getting full 4K HDR10 even though the TV full UHD is set to off and the Denon is set to output ‘standard.’
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
And to clarify, my cables are “Perfect Path 1000 series, high speed HDMI with Ethernet.” Pretty sure they came from monoprice.

Attached is a pic of what the TV is telling me it’s displaying which leads me to believe I’m getting full 4K HDR10 even though the TV full UHD is set to off and the Denon is set to output ‘standard.’
The results are opposite of what is expected. Do you have any other 4K HDR devices to test out? Are you up to date on the firmware for both the AVR and the Vizio? Try enabling full UHD color and enhanced 4K, then reseating the HDMI cables. Then try a hard reset and then a factory reset if things are still off.

The only way to test the cable is to take a known HDR source and test if HDR passes correctly. You can do this via the AVR or directly to the Vizio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Unfortunately I don’t own anything else that can output a 4K signal. I’ll try buying a new high speed cable to see if that makes a difference. I can also run the cable box directly to the TV just to see if I notice anything.

Take a look at these two pictures. One, which you can tell by the label, is displaying Dolby Vision through the TV’s Netflix App. In looking around the outline of the polar bear, there are no visible gradations of white, it’s completely smooth.

The other picture is the same scene originating from Netflix on the cable box. Again, the TV says 4K HDR10, but there are definitely visible gradations (bell shaped curves above the polar bear) in this format that are not visible in the Dolby Vision format.

Would this be an expected difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
Unfortunately I don’t own anything else that can output a 4K signal. I’ll try buying a new high speed cable to see if that makes a difference. I can also run the cable box directly to the TV just to see if I notice anything.

Take a look at these two pictures. One, which you can tell by the label, is displaying Dolby Vision through the TV’s Netflix App. In looking around the outline of the polar bear, there are no visible gradations of white, it’s completely smooth.

The other picture is the same scene originating from Netflix on the cable box. Again, the TV says 4K HDR10, but there are definitely visible gradations (bell shaped curves above the polar bear) in this format that are not visible in the Dolby Vision format.

Would this be an expected difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10?
If you buy Monoprice, make sure it has a Certified Premium High Speed label. In case you hadn't noticed, the full UHD color setting is separately enabled for each of the HDMI inputs. I don't believe it works on HDMI 5 though, as I believe that is designed to be a low lag 120Hz gaming input that doesn't support HDR.

I'm not a big believer in making judgments based on pics posted on the internet but based on your description, that shouldn't be a differentiator between HDR10 and Dolby Vision. My guess is that it might be a limitation of the cable box's Netflix app.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
I’ll try buying a new high speed cable to see if that makes a difference.
Generally the advice is to get "Premium Certified" cables from Monoprice, with the QR Code. (Or Amazon Basics with same.) That's the evidence that the specific cable has been tested as actually passing 18Gbps as opposed to being theoretically capable of it, if everything got assembled correctly. HDMI is really pushing the limits of what you can do over copper and everything has to be essentially perfect for it to work at max bandwidth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the suggestion. Cables have been ordered and we’ll see if that fixes it. I should have them by Friday night.

Now I get to nervously wait to see if the 20ft certified cable snakes through the too small conduit my contractor installed 5 years ago. Ha!

I’ll try buying a new high speed cable to see if that makes a difference.
Generally the advice is to get "Premium Certified" cables from Monoprice, with the QR Code. (Or Amazon Basics with same.) That's the evidence that the specific cable has been tested as actually passing 18Gbps as opposed to being theoretically capable of it, if everything got assembled correctly. HDMI is really pushing the limits of what you can do over copper and everything has to be essentially perfect for it to work at max bandwidth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,074 Posts
The other picture is the same scene originating from Netflix on the cable box. Again, the TV says 4K HDR10, but there are definitely visible gradations (bell shaped curves above the polar bear) in this format that are not visible in the Dolby Vision format.
That's to be expected since you don't have the Full UHD color/Enhanced 4K options enabled. Any external device will show banding because without that option the HDMI port(s) is rate limited. This was a common setting on earlier 4k HDR TVs, for example my 2016 Samsung KS8000 has a similar setting I had to enable.

Some details from Samsung on this, which the Vizio seems to behave similarly:

"UHD Color is essentially a switch that allows the user to setup the TV to match the source material being sent through the HDMI ports. For 2015 Samsung TVs, this feature must be turned ON if the HDMI input is receiving a 10 Bit signal. For 2016 TVs, the TVs will automatically detect the signal and enable this function automatically (because the UBD K8500 is the currently the only UHD Source on the market). When other UHD sources become available, this feature needs to be turned on to process 10 bit and higher signals on Samsung TVs.

An HDMI connection HDMI UHD Color set to OFF supports up to UHD 50/60p 4:2:0 input signals, while an HDMI connection with HDMI UHD Color set to ON supports UHD 50/60p 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 input signals
You can also see the recommendation to enable Full UHD Color from CNET's settings for the 2018 P series here:
https://www.cnet.com/forums/discuss...ure-settings-and-hdr-notes/?ts=15324505008366

Unlike Samsung or LG sets, you'll have to set the TV's highest-bandwidth HDMI mode -- called Full UHD Color by Vizio -- manually. It's not required for every 4K HDR source, but will be for many.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
That's to be expected since you don't have the Full UHD color/Enhanced 4K options enabled. Any external device will show banding because without that option the HDMI port(s) is rate limited. This was a common setting on earlier 4k HDR TVs, for example my 2016 Samsung KS8000 has a similar setting I had to enable.

Some details from Samsung on this, which the Vizio seems to behave similarly:



You can also see the recommendation to enable Full UHD Color from CNET's settings for the 2018 P series here:
https://www.cnet.com/forums/discuss...ure-settings-and-hdr-notes/?ts=15324505008366
Good explanation. That suggests that its more likely that the cables are the problem, and once they are upgraded and Full UHD and Enhanced 4K are enabled he'll get a proper HDR experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Thanks for starting this thread! I'm very interested in this TV (upgrading from an antique Panny plasma). What are the lighting conditions in your TV room? My living room can go from very dark to very bright with the reflection from a large sliding glass door off to the side that washes out the plasma set in dark scenes.
Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Good explanation. That suggests that its more likely that the cables are the problem, and once they are upgraded and Full UHD and Enhanced 4K are enabled he'll get a proper HDR experience.
He could test the cables directly by taking the AVR out of the chain and connecting the TV right to the 4k cable box. If "Full UHD color" on that input now works, then the AVR (or other HDMI cable needed to connect the 3 devices) is the culprit. If it doesn't, it's probably the cables he has.
 
1 - 20 of 328 Posts
Top