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One other thing regarding the shadow detail feature is, it is only available on the 2020 iTPG. This is all fine and great for SDR and HDR, but for DV, I have to use the 2019 iTPG (i am on 3.10.20 firmware) so I cant use the shadow detail feature...I am also curious if the HDR shadow detail values would be safe to apply to dolby vision?

i have been speaking with papamiraculi and that is what he did, I just want to make sure its ok to do that before I do so.
 

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sorry, as a followup, is the 2020 DV iTPG is still broken, or is it good in the new 3.11.xx firmwares?
 

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The clipping of black from approximately 3.1% and below is a known by-product of loading a custom 1D LUT in Dolby Vision.
Thanks. So what I'm interested in: Is there a way to use the DV autocal without introducing black crush?
We can't really get around loading a custom 1D LUT. That's the whole point of doing a DV calibration, isn't it?
 

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sorry, as a followup, is the 2020 DV iTPG is still broken, or is it good in the new 3.11.xx firmwares?
Broken. As in, doesn't exist. There. is. no. 2020. Dolby. Vision. iTPG.

Only the 2019 iTPG (near the end of the TV's pipeline, can only be used for Dolby Vision on the 2020 models, has to be used for everything on the 2019 models).

The 2020 iTPG is the new one which is earlier in the TV's pipeline, allowing you to validate HDR10. It can only be used for SDR and HDR10/HLG.

I hope @liberator72 won't mind me re-posting his image from >this post<, but perhaps the text was too small ;)
 

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Broken. As in, doesn't exist. There. is. no. 2020. Dolby. Vision. iTPG.
Only the 2019 one.
The 2020 iTPG is the new one which is earlier in the TV's pipeline, allowing you to validate HDR10.
Well you can definitely select the 2020 iTPG for DV Autocalibration workflows in Calman.

This is very confusing.
So what is the recommendation on doing a DV autocalibration? Is it even possible at all at the moment?
 

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sorry, as a followup, is the 2020 DV iTPG is still broken, or is it good in the new 3.11.xx firmwares?
There is no 2020 DV iTPG. There is no such thing, because it doesn't exist. DV always uses the old iTPG as stated by Tyler months ago


The problem was that selecting 2020 for the iTPG was setting the wrong patch scale levels as I explained very clearly with evidence at the time


All that needs to happen is for the software to automatically select the correct levels during the DV AutoCAL workflow for it to work as it should. Perhaps that is what this mystery fix is that's being talked about is actually doing. Until you get that fix, there is absolutely nothing wrong with selecting 2019 as the Source for the iTPG when calibrating Dolby Vision, and is in fact what you should do

Thanks. So what I'm interested in: Is there a way to use the DV autocal without introducing black crush?
We can't really get around loading a custom 1D LUT. That's the whole point of doing a DV calibration, isn't it?
Dolby Vision can be fully calibrated manually (and produces better results). Even in CalMAN Home for LG, even by using the iTPG. So yes, you can get around loading a custom 1D LUT, and always could. And it is what anyone who knows what they are doing (and knows about 1D LUT issues on LG's and have no desire to cover them up) have always recommended.
 

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Dolby Vision can be fully calibrated manually (and produces better results). Even in CalMAN Home for LG, even by using the iTPG.
Ok, thank you.
I obviously had the wrong assumption that you also create a custom 1D LUT when doing a manual calibration.

That means there is no shadow detail compensation for DV at the moment, since the feature only works with the 2020 iTPG.

That also means if I want good results I have to get back to square one and get into manual DV calibration.
I honestly don't know if I have the time and energy to do that.
Ok, say I do, where do I start? Is there a thread or website that explains the process of calibrating DV, ideally using the iTPG? Any help would be appreciated.
 

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I obviously had the wrong assumption that you also create a custom 1D LUT when doing a manual calibration.
Manual calibration does not load a 1D LUT. It is manual adjustment of the controls accessible to the user in the menus (and possibly Service Menu if you have access to it for better pre-calibration)

That also means if I want good results I have to get back to square one and get into manual DV calibration.
I honestly don't know if I have the time and energy to do that.
Ok, say I do, where do I start? Is there a thread or website that explains the process of calibrating DV, ideally using the iTPG? Any help would be appreciated
It's just a case of familiarising yourself with the software and the workflows, and working through them manually without ever connecting to the TV via DDC (you can connect as source for the iTPG obviously). The problem is, if you have run AutoCAL and previously loaded a 1D LUT to DV then it isn't going to work anyway without a factory reset. And that might not be something that most people are willing to do. In that case you may just have to live with getting the best you can out of AutoCAL.

I have written full guides for SDR LUT calibration, and HDR/DV manual calibration for ColourSpace users (only available to ColourSpace license holders) and the feedback has been great. However, it doesn't apply to CalMAN (different method) although the basic underlying concept is the same. Maybe one of the resident expert CalMAN users can give you some tips in the right direction.
 

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I was wondering if you guys could help me make sense of something. Whenever I finish an autocal with calman, i save data from the session, disconnect the source and ddc control, and exit calman. The results are excellent, less than .5 error on color and grayscale.

However, if I go back in again for the same picture mode I just calibrated, connect source and ddc, and do a precal reading, all of the modes I already calibrated have precal readings as if i didnt even calibrate the tv. Am I doing something wrong? Or does reconnecting the source and ddc reset whatever I did previously? This makes no sense to me....unless I am not actually applying the autocal correctly at the end?
 

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It may reset everything, if LGs are anything like our KS8000 Samsung. CalMAN cannot read what is in the DDC memory on the TV in the case of the Samsung, and so must reset everything to a specific set of defaults when the autocal is begun. There's a good chance that the same thing is happening to you. If you want to see if the results from a previous autocal are still in place, set up for a MANUAL calibration so nothing gets reset. Even so, do not be surprised if the results aren't exactly the same. Both TVs and meters drift slightly from session to session. It's called repeatability.
 

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It may reset everything, if LGs are anything like our KS8000 Samsung. CalMAN cannot read what is in the DDC memory on the TV in the case of the Samsung, and so must reset everything to a specific set of defaults when the autocal is begun. There's a good chance that the same thing is happening to you. If you want to see if the results from a previous autocal are still in place, set up for a MANUAL calibration so nothing gets reset. Even so, do not be surprised if the results aren't exactly the same. Both TVs and meters drift slightly from session to session. It's called repeatability.
ok, thanks, i thought so...i wanted to make sure i wasnt losing my mind :)
 

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Manual calibration does not load a 1D LUT. It is manual adjustment of the controls accessible to the user in the menus (and possibly Service Menu if you have access to it for better pre-calibration)



It's just a case of familiarising yourself with the software and the workflows, and working through them manually without ever connecting to the TV via DDC (you can connect as source for the iTPG obviously). The problem is, if you have run AutoCAL and previously loaded a 1D LUT to DV then it isn't going to work anyway without a factory reset. And that might not be something that most people are willing to do. In that case you may just have to live with getting the best you can out of AutoCAL.

I have written full guides for SDR LUT calibration, and HDR/DV manual calibration for ColourSpace users (only available to ColourSpace license holders) and the feedback has been great. However, it doesn't apply to CalMAN (different method) although the basic underlying concept is the same. Maybe one of the resident expert CalMAN users can give you some tips in the right direction.
I agree 100% with Leon's recommendation but i wanted to add, if you are using CM and you have the beta, also try an autocal and make a new 1DLUT and after you do the matrix or lightening LUT, use the DDC control to set the shadow detail control to the defaults of SDR: 23/320 HDR:14/320, you can look at a brightness pattern on a usb drive as long as you are in the same PM to make sure it looks proper and not crushing, and then see how the PQ looks to you. If you get good shadow detail you can always do it again and tweak the shadow detail control if you want. I've done some testing and the Shadow Detail control works well so all i'm suggesting is try both ways, manual and autocal and see how they work for you.
 
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I agree 100% with Leon's recommendation but i wanted to add, if you are using CM and you have the beta, also try an autocal and make a new 1DLUT and after you do the matrix or lightening LUT, use the DDC control to set the shadow detail control to the defaults of SDR: 23/320 HDR:14/320, you can look at a brightness pattern on a usb drive as long as you are in the same PM to make sure it looks proper and not crushing, and then see how the PQ looks to you. If you get good shadow detail you can always do it again and tweak the shadow detail control if you want. I've done some testing and the Shadow Detail control works well so all i'm suggesting is try both ways, manual and autocal and see how they work for you.
Agree the shadow detail feature is great. for HDR Cinema, i had to lower it from 14/320 default to 14/200 because I had raised blacks. Used Mehanik's hdr c65 brightness pattern to dial it in.

For SDR, the default 23/320 was fine.

I only wish I could use the shadow detail for HDR game and DV, but maybe in a future beta.
 

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Agree the shadow detail feature is great. for HDR Cinema, i had to lower it from 14/320 default to 14/200 because I had raised blacks. Used Mehanik's hdr c65 brightness pattern to dial it in.

For SDR, the default 23/320 was fine.

I only wish I could use the shadow detail for HDR game and DV, but maybe in a future beta.
You should be able to use it for HDR Game just like you use it for HDR Filmmaker or Cinema. I haven't tested with DV yet so anything you do there will be an experiment.
 

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You should be able to use it for HDR Game just like you use it for HDR Filmmaker or Cinema. I haven't tested with DV yet so anything you do there will be an experiment.
I outlined earlier why I cant use it for HDR Game, and the reason is my hdr pattern is on a thumb drive, and if i switch to it from calman, it reverts to hdr cinema from hdr game. I cant figure out a way to get the tv to stay in hdr game mode when looking at a pattern. I also dont want to use the same shadow detail numbers from HDR cinema without first verifying with a pattern.
 

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I agree 100% with Leon's recommendation but i wanted to add, if you are using CM and you have the beta, also try an autocal and make a new 1DLUT and after you do the matrix or lightening LUT, use the DDC control to set the shadow detail control to the defaults of SDR: 23/320 HDR:14/320, you can look at a brightness pattern on a usb drive as long as you are in the same PM to make sure it looks proper and not crushing, and then see how the PQ looks to you. If you get good shadow detail you can always do it again and tweak the shadow detail control if you want. I've done some testing and the Shadow Detail control works well so all i'm suggesting is try both ways, manual and autocal and see how they work for you.
You realise we were discussing Dolby Vision calibration right?. So I'm just wondering how can you say this, and follow it up with......

I haven't tested with DV yet so anything you do there will be an experiment.
If you haven't tested it yourself with DV yet, how do you know if it works to resolve the issue we were discussing?
 

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You realise we were discussing Dolby Vision calibration right?. So I'm just wondering how can you say this, and follow it up with......



If you haven't tested it yourself with DV yet, how do you know if it works to resolve the issue we were discussing?
I was rushing to work so i thought that have might be the case lol, thanks!
 

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I was rushing to work so i thought that have might be the case lol, thanks!
Fair enough. Just wanted to be sure because it isn't really fair to recommend something to users that you haven't tested and verified for yourself that it works, that's all ;)
 

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Just finished HDR Game autocal on my cx with the calman r2 beta. My HDR10 calibration came out awesome, average delta e at 0.5 for grayscale and less for color.

However, I am very confused about how my HDR Game autocal came out. Below are the results after greyscale autocal and the post-calibration verification.

On the grayscale autocal, every point is below the 0.5 target, but when i do the post cal verification, my errors are very high? Im not sure what to make of this...is this a crummy calibration, or just my tv and I cant do anything about it?

I ran it 3 times, and got pretty much the same results each time. Any thoughts on this?
3048720


3048719
 
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