[bigtom4prez]

There is a discussion on the Pioneer 8G thread about rapid rate stutter using the Advance mode that triples film material frames to 72hz. I thought that there may not be a technical issue with the Pioneer Advance mode but rather we of the video generation are not use to seeing 24fps material at home. Since all TV and videos are displayed at 60hz, we just got use to it.


I just wanted some professional calibrators opinion on this issue. Since 1080p24 is fairly new tech (maybe not too new), I am sure many of your customers bought displays capable of displaying 1080p24 sources from blu-ray/hd-dvd in their "natural" state by multiplying the frames.


Do your customers complain about "rapid rate stutter" during fast action scenes? Or if this problem is noticed, it is a technical problem with the display or source?

 

[cavu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtom4prez /forum/post/14187458


we of the video generation are not use to seeing 24fps material at home. Since all TV and videos are displayed at 60hz, we just got use to it.

Have you EVER been to a movie theater??!!

All the movies you have ever seen in a theater are 24fps.

Have you EVER heard anyone complain about motion artifacts in a movie theater?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtom4prez /forum/post/14187458


Advance mode that triples film material frames to 72hz.

They don't triple the frames ... they show the same frame three times each! (3:3 pulldown)


Same thing in a movie theater ... they double the shutter rate (48Hz) and show every frame twice. (2:2 pulldown)

The results are identical!!!


Google "3:2 pulldown" and learn about frame rates.

 

[bigtom4prez]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu /forum/post/14187927


Have you EVER been to a movie theater??!!

All the movies you have ever seen in a theater are 24fps.

Have you EVER heard anyone complain about motion artifacts in a movie theater?

I am aware that all movies are 24fps and that is the point of 1080p24 is to get to that frame rate. When I watch movies in the theater, I do notice fast motion in movies is "different" compare to video. It is not as smooth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu /forum/post/14187927


They don't triple the frames ... they show the same frame three times each! (3:3 pulldown)


Same thing in a movie theater ... they double the shutter rate (48Hz) and show every frame twice. (2:2 pulldown)

The results are identical!!!


Google "3:2 pulldown" and learn about frame rates.

I understand the concept and the normal 3:2 that is used today to display movies on 60hz displays. Some people have noted that using the Pioneers Standard mode (3:2) is more pleasing to their eyes. In my opinion this supports my theory that we are use to the 3:2, people need to get use to 3:3 or 5:5 (for some LCDs).


I don't have a real problem with 3:3. I am just trying to determine if there are human factors that may attribute to this issue. (if it is an issue at all.)

 

[bigtom4prez]

I just came across an interesting article concerning frames per second. http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frame...humans_see.htm


The most interesting statement is "Blurring simulates fluidity, sharpness simulates stuttering."


This would imply that during calibration that sharpness and contrast should be lowered to lessen the impact of stuttering at low frame rates. Since the HD image is so sharp and crisp, we need more frame rates to smooth the image. If the image was SD, we would not notice the stuttering because it is blurry.

 

[John Mason]

Sure, think 48 or 60 fps would be better. The DCI standard (for digital theaters) has a format for 48 fps, and the ~4k Red One "budget"-priced digital camera has a 48-fps mode, as I recall. 24 fps can be derived from digital 48 fps, too, for 24-fps film theaters. Discussions typically descend to: we don't want no stinking soap-opera look. A long time ago, in a forum not far away, I half-seriously proposed capturing 24p and 1080/60i simultaneously to satisfy both "looks." -- John