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Ok, so I'm planning on buying the G10, but I'm trying to find some info out first. Basically, I know that the G10 only does 48/60hz, and not 96hz like the V10. I get that 48hz will cause flickering, and 60hz will cause juddering. What I don't get, is will this only affect blu-rays, or does it affect TV viewing as well? What if I connect a PC to the TV as well? (Will it depend on source? Will a Blu-ray judder but a TV-rip (or hulu) play fine?)


I think my head is about to explode.
 

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Bill, firstly there is no reason to start two new threads the past 2 days...and no need for any heads to explode.



In your first thread, KidHorn, cleh19, and myself responded that there is no flicker in the screen. **Only when the 48hz refresh is turned on, only an option when watching blu-ray movies, that some people see this flicker** This mode does not have to be turned on (I don't use it myself).


Two questions I would like to ask:


1. Do you see "flicker" in a standard CRT (SDTV)?

2. Do you see "judder" in a standard CRT (SDTV)?


If judder is such a problem, yet you have probably been living with it for years. Only in movie theaters does judder mostly not occur; theaters use 48hz or 72hz, frame rates that match the cadence of film (24 frames per second).


Unless you see any flicker in CRT, you may want to go with a LCD. Some people are more susceptible to flicker than others. On the other hand, I am not, and really enjoy my G10, many hours a day...


To clarify some things, the G10 can display 48hz and 60hz. The V10 can display 96hz and 60hz. The 48hz and 96hz modes are for blu-ray (24 frame) movies only and cannot be changed for any other source, and that includes PC (per my G10 and panasonic.com)


Either would be a great first hdtv..but I believe some google research should be your first order. The terms '24p', '2:3 pulldown', or sometimes called '3:2 pulldown' and 'telecine'. Wiki is your friend!
 

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Movies you see at the theater are shown at 24 frames per second. A Normal TV at 60Hz shows 60 frames per second. The Blu-Ray Movies are in 1080P/24P format. DVD's were 480P/24. To get 60 frames out of 24 frames, they use what is called 3:2 or 2:3 Pulldown. First frame is shown 3 times, the second frame 2 times, the 3rd frame 3 times, and so on and so on, 11122333445556677788 which turns those 24 frames into the required 60 frames. Of course because the frames are not EVEN, you can get a juddering effect. I don't really notice it myself, some people do. It never seemed to be a problem with DVD's, but now I guess with better picture of Blu-Ray, it just has to be perfect. Now SONY for example on their LCD displays do 120Hz, or 120 Frames per second. Doing this you get 5 frames for each frame 5:5 so now it's EVEN. 11111222223333344444. At 48Hz, or 48 Frames per Second, your doing 2 frames for each frame. So you get 1122334455667788 and so on, which turns 24 to 48, and you end up with a Even 2:2. With 96Hz or 96 Frames per second, your doing 4:4, Even once again. 111122223333444455556666, Juddering if you even noticed it, is gone. Personally, I think this may be the better way to go, then the whole 120Hz or even 240Hz, I think the picture starts to look fake.


Any programs you watch on TV, from Antenna or Cable are shown at 60Hz. Made for HDTV programs for TV are all going to be in 16x9 format at 60Hz because that's the standard. SDTV, HDTV are different from the Movies shown at the Theater, which is also why some may fill the screen, others don't because of the different Aspect Ratio's. So your watching 60Hz for TV and 48Hz or whatever from your Blu-Ray if it supports 24P playback. It also means your HDTV is the one to add the extra frames.


Yep, more garbage to confuse people.


To me, my Blu-Ray's look fantastic on my Normal Panasonic 60Hz Plasma.
 

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I have a nice 24hz mode on my Pioneer but I still think it's a vastly overhyped feature.
 

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That's what I mean. People got along just fine watching DVD's which have the SAME 24P format of Blu-Ray, but NOW some people seem to have a problem. I don't get it. Most people can't see it, maybe a few more will if you point it out to them, but I think it's more Marketing garbage to make yourself stand out and charge more for your HDTV. Like I said, my Blu-Ray movies look fantastic on my 50" 1080P Panasonic Plasma in normal 60Hz mode to me.
 

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The 48 Hz does no good without a 24P Blu-Ray player that's also configured to output 24P, if your Blu-Ray player is outputting the normal 60 Frames per second, having the HDTV at 48 Hz does no good. I think it's a over hyped feature anyway. I never heard of this being a problem with DVD's and they're 480P/24, so same type of thing, and yet, with Blu-Ray It's now a problem. A problem I think never really needed to be fixed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBDragon /forum/post/17118240


The 48 Hz does no good without a 24P Blu-Ray player that's also configured to output 24P, if your Blu-Ray player is outputting the normal 60 Frames per second, having the HDTV at 48 Hz does no good. I think it's a over hyped feature anyway. I never heard of this being a problem with DVD's and they're 480P/24, so same type of thing, and yet, with Blu-Ray It's now a problem. A problem I think never really needed to be fixed.

I have my BD80 set to output at 24p, and with the V10 at 48 Hz, the flicker is quite noticeable. I have to leave it set to 96 Hz.
 

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On the AVCHD disc, there is a test pattern in the misc. section that has a scrolling white bar. It's useful for observing the difference between the video modes. I find the 72hz of my tv to make this 24p test pattern look smoother, but on real program material, I think the difference is generally not noticeable. Pans may be smoother.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBDragon /forum/post/17118240


DVD's [are] 480P/24

You've been misinformed. If the original source was film then the dvd might have started at 24p but it's unlikely the mpeg2 data stream is cleanly progressive and of course the output is commonly 60i. This is a brief summary .
 
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