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$2500 budget 5.1 with tower mains, large open floorplan with placement restrictions (pics)

9K views 158 replies 22 participants last post by  Zorba922 
#1 · (Edited)
My home has a large, open living room/kitchen/dining room area. I have attached the floor plan; the TV is a 75" Samsung Q80R on the left wall of the gathering room and the couch splits the living area and kitchen. I'd like to set up a 5.1 system at minimum, possibly expanding in the future to include Atmos speakers and a second sub. The room is squarely in the main area of our home without room for an equipment rack, so I'd like to run everything off a receiver and keep the setup as simple and unobtrusive as possible. I understand that I will be compromising absolute performance as a result of foregoing a pre/pro and power amp combo, but I'm ok with that. I don't have any specific goals in terms of frequency response, total dB, etc. I just want a respectable bang-for-the-buck system which will primarily be used for TV/movies, but speakers that are flexible for enjoyable music reproduction as well. I do have space for floor standing left and right speakers, or large bookshelves on stands, but the surround channels MAY need to be wall-mounted to keep them out of the middle of the room. They would be mounted to the drywall above the lanai sliding glass door and above the foyer hallway, approximately 8' above the floor. I will probably have one subwoofer placed close to the receiver and hope to add a second beside or behind the couch which would need to have an embedded or external wireless kit.

I am looking at very sensitive speakers in order for a receiver to provide sufficient power. My speaker budget will likely be an absolute maximum of $2,500 for the 5.1 not including the future Atmos/second sub. I'd like to use a Denon AVR-X1200W I already own for now, but understand this may need to be upgraded fairly significantly. Will I be able to achieve my goals without dropping $3,000 on a receiver? Are there other considerations I should have to eliminate the need for extraneous devices? Finally, do you have suggestions on specific speakers that would facilitate the type of setup I've described?


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Edit: Pics of the room, more to come as progress is made:

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Semi-finished floating cabinet and feature wall:

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#2 ·
That's a pretty nice-looking house.
Are you in the Lower 48? I ask, because there are several vendors that won't ship to Hawaii or Alaska.
A Klipsch Reference Premier 5.0 setup sounds like it would fit your budget and volume requirements. I suggest the RP-6000, RP504C, and RP400M speakers, paired with a 12" sub from SVS, HSU, or Rythmik.
With your surround speakers mounted that high, I'm afraid Atmos is not in your future. You need a vertical separation between your ear-level speakers and your Height speakers in order to get a sense of 3D sound. If you can get a pair of speaker stands for the RP-400Ms, then Atmos would be a consideration.
Your current AVR will be perfectly fine to drive this setup with zero issues. If and when you decide to do an Atmos upgrade, then I would recommend a 5.1.4 setup, as you really don't have the room for rear surrounds. This will save you about $1000 on electronics and speakers; or about the cost of a high-output 15" subwoofer.
The Denon 3600/3700 is probably the best BFTB AVR on the market right now, and both can run a 5.2.4 setup without external amplification. There is no NEED to spend $3k on electronics.
There are many other speaker systems within your budget. Any speakers that are 90dB/W/m sensitivity would be fine in your room with an average AVR.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thank you, we're very happy with it. My last home had a very large upstairs loft that I planned to enclose as a dedicated theater room. It's unfortunate that I don't have that option here, but I'll make do.

Good point about the Atmos needing vertical separation from the surrounds. I'd obviously prefer to have them on stands, but I'm not sure I can do so without impeding the walking space around the couch, so maybe that will influence my decision to not concern myself with Atmos and maybe install some in-ceiling speakers for casual music listening instead.

I am in Florida, so no concern with shipping availability. Klipsch was one that sprang to mind, although I know they're fairly divisive with their tweeter design, and I thought that also may make them sub-par for music use. I assume they'd be fairly easy to find for a demo, though, and I bet my wife would like the gold accents. Is their Reference Wireless line worth a look (for surrounds)? Those sub brands are definitely on my shortlist, but I'm having some custom cabinetry installed and will need to check clearances for placement or size limitations. The aesthetics of the room area taking priority over optimizing for AV performance.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
 
#9 · (Edited)
If this works, there is a pretty good sale going on now but I don't know how long it will last. You can also easily go to 2 subs. Save some money from the AVR and get a good subwoofer like the HSU Zorba mentioned.
Thanks, I've never heard of these before, but will add them to my research. I like the front-facing port, which may help if I do end up needing to wall mount the surrounds. Is $2299 a price that is available regularly, or a once-in-a-lifetime type of deal? How's the subwoofer that comes in the kit? I know adding a second in a room of that size will make all the difference, but would it be decent enough to start out?

Why is it I can't seem to locate that deal unless I use your link?

On an unrelated note, does Adorama not understand what each digit of "5.1.1" is supposed to indicate?
 
#4 ·
My home has a large, open living room/kitchen/dining room area. I have attached the floor plan; the TV is a 75" Samsung Q80R on the left wall of the gathering room and the couch splits the living area and kitchen. I'd like to set up a 5.1 system at minimum, possibly expanding in the future to include Atmos speakers and a second sub. The room is squarely in the main area of our home without room for an equipment rack, so I'd like to run everything off a receiver and keep the setup as simple and unobtrusive as possible. I understand that I will be compromising absolute performance as a result of foregoing a pre/pro and power amp combo, but I'm ok with that. I don't have any specific goals in terms of frequency response, total dB, etc. I just want a respectable bang-for-the-buck system which will primarily be used for TV/movies, but speakers that are flexible for enjoyable music reproduction as well. I do have space for floor standing left and right speakers, or large bookshelves on stands, but the surround channels MAY need to be wall-mounted to keep them out of the middle of the room. They would be mounted to the drywall above the lanai sliding glass door and above the foyer hallway, approximately 8' above the floor. I will probably have one subwoofer placed close to the receiver and hope to add a second beside or behind the couch which would need to have an embedded or external wireless kit.

I am looking at very sensitive speakers in order for a receiver to provide sufficient power. My speaker budget will likely be an absolute maximum of $2,500 for the 5.1 not including the future Atmos/second sub. I'd like to use a Denon AVR-X1200W I already own for now, but understand this may need to be upgraded fairly significantly. Will I be able to achieve my goals without dropping $3,000 on a receiver? Are there other considerations I should have to eliminate the need for extraneous devices? Finally, do you have suggestions on specific speakers that would facilitate the type of setup I've described?
Hell no, if movies/TV are your primary usage you do NOT need to throw away $3K on a stupid receiver, let alone separates.

What you WILL need is a powerhouse sub given your layout, at minimum something like this...ideally, two of them but start with one and go from there:

Nor do you necessarily need VERY sensitive speakers---anything around 90-92db will be fine and easily fit your $2500 budget, unless you are a confirmed volume freak...I'd suggest using an SPL Meter (or download an app for it) to measure your actual preferred listening volumes first.
 
#14 · (Edited)
How close are you to Tampa? I'd check out Chane A5.5 if you're looking for towers. Or if you're patient enough to wait for restocking, their A2.4 and A1.5 speakers. All of these will easily fit your budget and be easy to drive w/o needing an external amp at all. If within easy driving distance then it would be easy to test out and take back within their 30 day trial period.

Do a forum search, they come widely praised.
I'm definitely not looking to set any volume records, so glad to hear I can open up my speaker research. In terms of subs, I'm not sure I'll have the room for something very large, unfortunately. My wife also won't be thrilled about having a giant box dominating the room. I'm thinking the best I'd get away with is one sub at either end of the couch (a pretty large U-shaped sectional) but they'd have to be a more moderately sized option. I've been reading these forums for a while, so Hsu, SVS and Rythmik automatically came to mind. I also was thinking about putting one dead center under the TV, but after my floating cabinetry is installed, there's going to only be room for a very short box, maybe a DIY option that's not very tall, but a wide box to get a sufficient interior volume. I'm not a seasoned woodworker and have never built a speaker enclosure before, so I'm not very confident in my abilities there.

I'm in SE Florida, so about 4 hours from Tampa, why do you ask? Chane A2.4 was one that I had specifically added to my list as an option based on what I've read about them here. I'm in no rush. I feel like towers may be the better option, though. Since I probably won't be able to get the very large sub that would be optimal for this type of room, at least a tower would help by extending into some of the lower frequencies. I'm a little concerned by the rear port on the Chanes since I think I may have to wall mount the surrounds.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Suggestion here are good, but I think with this budget you should look at used speaker in your area. In the used market with that budget you could easily find speaker that had a 2X or more msrp value and get something way better than what you can afford in the "new" market, or just spend way less money for the same quality of build and sound and keep the difference and make the wife happy .... Used speaker in these price range are usually in perfect condition and the risk with going with a used speaker is minimal since there is not a lot of thing you can do to damage them. Good speaker in these price can easy last 20,30,40 years or more, people switch them because they get bored or want to upgrade, or moved out but the deal you can find on the used market are amazing. Tech in speaker from 4 or 5 years ago are not that far behind what your gonna get today, its nothing compared to the video world.

For sub its cheaper than SVS and a amazing product, Monolith by Monoprice 12in THX Ultra Certified 500-Watt Powered Subwoofer - Monoprice.com . I would only buy the sub new since used sub could be damaged or been abused, unlike the 5.0 speaker that support power and output way beyond what people will usually push them even at "reference level".
 
#32 ·
I'm aware that going used could result in significantly more bang for the buck, but I'm not sure I'm up for that type of hunt. I feel like it may be difficult to find speakers that met my desired specifications, and personally, I feel it's worth buying new to eliminate some of that hassle.

I haven't really done any research on those Monolith subs, but I'll look into them, thanks.

If your that restricted on your sub placement, I full go with tower at full range and no sub the chance of getting better bass is better with the towers in your case. Your room is not a dedicated theater and a bad placed sub could give you way worse result at your listening position than bass comming from your towers specially if you can get decent full range towers. SVS Ultra Towers are bass monster.

You seem to have a lot of design restriction, I would make sure that you have enough space and the flexibility to adjust the center channel so it fires a little upward ( at your face ) and not at your knee. A bad placed center channel is worse than no center channel at all and just going 2.0 for your front speaker could be better.

Im my main living room, I had design restriction like you so I had to go with a 4.0 set up and it sounds and look great. It triggers purist because your AVR need to process the center channel audio into the left and right but it still gives a great result, way better than a badly placed center channel an with great front speaker you can get a really good soundstage and the two at the back provide the surround effect.

You can try the 4.0, then move to 5.0 or 5.1 later or even try it with someone else speaker when you will be installed.
The height of the cabinet was designed with speaker placement as a consideration, so the drivers should line up fairly well towards ear level of somebody sitting on the couch. If necessary, I'll certainly come up with a solution to angle them appropriately.
 
#38 ·
Well, these guys seem to be giving you sound advice to deal with your parameters. I didn’t bother asking the wife before I plopped the Velodyne 18” sub next to the couch and moved here end table elsewhere. Now I’m single and the velodyne is too big to use in my condo. I really can’t blame it on the sub. She liked the boom/boom in the big house we were in. Good luck.
 
#42 · (Edited)
@sigpig @altpensacola @Zorba922 I'm thinking about picking up a 3.0 setup from Crutchfield right now while the Klipsch sale is going on. I'd prefer the RP-504C over the RP-600C, but my placement here is limited to the top of the cabinet (installation begins Friday) which is only 16" deep, leaving only an inch and change from the back of the 504 to the wall. In that case, would it be better to get the 600C since it's a little shallower, even if it's technically a "worse" speaker? Or take one step down from the 504C to the 404C, which is an inch and a half shallower?
 
#44 · (Edited)
Also, a quick search here for front-ported speakers resulted in some praise for HTD's Level Three series, as well as Focal Chorus (although Focal classifies these as music speakers, not home theater). They look promising as well, front-ported so fewer concerns about near wall placement, 88-89 dB sensitivity, 8 ohms. Any reason these shouldn't be in contention?

And yes, @guitarjim, the Triangle Boreas came up as well. It seems these are always reviewed by audio hi-fi enthusiasts and not as often by home theater reviewers.
 
#45 ·
If you have the room for the 504C, then go for it. It's actually BETTER to have the centre speaker overhang the console table to help prevent early reflections - it helps for sound (voice) clarity. I would stay away from their "Atmos-enabled" speakers, as they don't have any meaningful specifications on their site. Without those basic specs, it makes me distrust the manufacturer. A pair of RP-400M speakers would work a LOT better for your surrounds.
 
#46 ·
OK, if I have the 504C overhang slightly (could probably get away with a couple of inches), then I still have less than 4 inches clearance from the port to the rear wall. Is this so terrible that I should look to downsize the speaker? I could drop down to the 404C or 600C if staying with Reference Premier, or the HTD Level Three, Focal Chorus, and Triangle Borea are all smaller and front-ported, which would hopefully improve performance in that position. I've also just come across the RSL CG25 or CG23, but not done any research there yet.

Also, I'd much prefer the surrounds to be stand-mounted behind and to either side of the couch, but due to the room layout, I don't believe I will have that option. Wall-mounting them may be my only choice, and along with WAF considerations, I think a wedge-shaped speaker would help direct the audio forward and down towards the listening position, as well as not be such an eyesore. I didn't notice the lack of specs on those speakers, which is a bit odd/concerning.
 
#48 ·
Have you thought of in-wall surrounds?
HTD Versa are some good on-wall speakers, and so are the Monitor Audio Radius (but a bit more expensive).
Elac Debut 2.0 4.2 speakers are designed to be placed on-wall with a down-firing port. No idea on frequency response and max SPL though.
Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 SE speakers are another great option: HTM-200 SE Home Theater Monitor
 
#49 ·
Have you thought of in-wall surrounds?
HTD Versa are some good on-wall speakers, and so are the Monitor Audio Radius (but a bit more expensive).
Elac Debut 2.0 4.2 speakers are designed to be placed on-wall with a down-firing port. No idea on frequency response and max SPL though.
Ascend Acoustics HTM-200 SE speakers are another great option: HTM-200 SE Home Theater Monitor
I'm not sure traditional in-wall or on-wall surrounds would work because they will likely be placed fairly high above the listening position and would need to be angled downwards significantly. Here are some photos of the room and viewing/listening area (obviously still a work in progress, chandeliers should arrive in a month, built-in media cabinet and feature wall begins this Friday, backsplash in a week or two). Since I'm sticking with 5.1, I imagine the surrounds would be placed where I have indicated with the red Xs.


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#57 ·
I've had high rear surrounds pointing downward for a long time and like them in a 5.1 setup. You could do in-wall RSL C34e (or whatever it is) and point them downward to help out. I think you would like that. Of course, if you ever go to 5.1.2+ that would need to change.
 
#58 ·
A pair of in-ceiling speakers for your surround channels would probably be the best option, but it looks like the ceiling is already finished, and you probably don't want to be cutting holes into the drywall right now.
Those surround positions you marked are probably be the best you can do without resorting to bookshelf speakers on stands on either side of your couch. I would actually suggest bi-pole speakers up there, as they will fill the room more, and you're not looking for pin-point accuracy in the sound signal.
 
#59 ·
I just had an electrician here today who ran some wire before my floating cabinet installation: one to each rear corner (near the red X in my photos) and one each to the coffered ceiling sections above my couch. So, I really can do either wall-mounted or in-ceiling surrounds. I always thought in-ceiling was a fairly significant compromise, so I'd been prioritizing the wall-mount option, but I have both options available to me now.
 
#61 ·
Opinions differ on the amount of sound the surround/Atmos channels produce. It all depends on the audio engineer, as well as the genre of movies you watch.
Action, Sci-Fi, blockbuster films, all make extensive use of Atmos and surrounds. Many indie, drama, documentary, etc films and shows generally don't.
Does it mean you should ignore surround speakers? No.
Does it mean you shouldn't over-budget for surround speakers? Yes, but there's a catch.
If your surround speakers are a fair distance from you (as the rear ones will be) then you need capable speakers. I usually suggest a medium-sized bookshelfs from the same series as you mains, as I do (my budget wasn't affected, I SAVED money by not using bi-pole speakers).
If at all possible, surround and Atmos speakers should be capable of an 80Hz crossover. These are just the guidelines I suggest, and they are not that hard to accomplish.
I fully agree with Zorba on placement. For me, Atmos is a thing (action and Sci-Fi fan). For others, it is not. Your AVR will be able to compensate, within reason, your speaker placement. There is really no "wrong" placement in your photo, just think of the future if you ever think you will expand to Atmos.
 
#62 ·
What a difference a day makes! The cabinet doors should be installed next Tuesday or Wednesday, which will finish that project, and then we have a chandelier coming in November which should just about finish up the room, other than the A/V stuff. I can't wait to get rid of that soundbar. It's going to be tricky getting all the wires to fit in that center cabinet and leave enough room for the AVR and Nvidia Shield.

I forgot the the 1.5" depth of the vertical wood slat panels was going to take away depth from the countertop, so now there's about 14.5" to the rear wall and 13.5" to the grommet passthrough. I may need to end up looking at speakers with a slightly smaller footprint.

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#63 ·
I forgot the the 1.5" depth of the vertical wood slat panels was going to take away depth from the countertop, so now there's about 14.5" to the rear wall and 13.5" to the grommet passthrough. I may need to end up looking at speakers with a slightly smaller footprint.
I would consider doing 3 of these, all in horizontal position---they are only 8.25" deep and have sealed cabinets. Would fit perfectly on top of your cabinet under the TV.
 
#65 ·
A pair of Cornwalls would be incredible in that room. WAF, however... lol
Come to think of it, let's play a game. Let's see how many different speaker sets will LOOK amazing in that room. I already suggested Cornwalls, but a nice pair of dual-concentric Tannoys would look incredible too...
 
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#68 ·
Heck, if he shows his wife some of these pics, she might change her mind... lol
At least we're actually showing CAPABLE speakers that look great too...
Of course, anything by Jim Salk would look and sound incredible as well.
 
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#71 ·
You guys are right, seeing the finished product has me leaning back towards floor standers, which was my initial plan, and the reason I left that empty space to the left and right of the cabinet. I talked myself out of it, though, when I realized there is no other wall space available to utilize for subs. Do the cylindrical SVS subs also need to be placed near a wall similar to traditional subwoofer boxes? Decisions, decisions.
 
#72 ·
I'm reconsidering the way this system will be used. While I felt initially that the system should be significantly targeted towards HT use, I've realized that since we're using a Sonos Playbar currently, we actually have music playing as often, if not more often, than we are actively watching TV. I am a (novice) musician, and can certainly picture myself sitting dead center, listening to some of my favorites to hear detail I was never able to previously.

Of course, part of this stems from me trying to rationalize buying some of those beautiful towers you guys have been posting. There is also a fair amount of gaming happening on the system, but this would be the lowest priority. Still, it would be nice to timbre match the front three since gaming may become more prevalent as my sons grow older.

I'm thinking that I may purchase a 3.0 setup now (engage center for HT, 2.0 for music) and expand with a subwoofer and surrounds later.

The Emotiva C2+ with T2+ towers are in strong consideration, I just really wish they were more attractive. I also considered taking the Ascend CMT-340 with their matched stands, but my two concerns there are they may not have enough low extension for use without a sub for a while, and the center channel appears as though it will suffer from comb issues based on the MTM horizontal layout. They don't look as though they'd win any beauty contests either. The Chane A5.5 and 2.4 would work, I believe @Zorba922 has mentioned on many threads that they are similar to Emotiva, in an easier-to-drive impedance (although this would not detract me from Emotiva as I've read all the evidence he's also linked about lower end receivers being perfectly fine with them). I'm not crazy about having to wait for specific products to become available or relying on a smaller company that is subject to the whims of a single individual. Does the tweeter design of the 2.4 eliminate the issues of horizontal driver placement? I considered the JBL Studio 570/590s on sale, but no possibility of a strong matching center channel. The 590s are also very large, and again, looks are meh... The Triangle Borea BR08 has an appearance that my wife would certainly be happy with (at least from pics online, no idea what to expect in terms of fit and finish), but it's hard to get excited about them compared to these others that get heaps of praise.

I think I'm leaning away from Klipsch due to many examples of forum members comparing Reference Premiers to Emotiva towers and them getting clobbered every time. They are nicer looking than many of the others, though.

I think I could get away (MAYBE) with an absolute max of $1500 for the front three, and they'd better look gorgeous to get my wife on board with that price!
 
#73 ·
Just get the Chane A5.5 towers with the Emotiva C2+ center. Do all your music in stereo as it was originally recorded for, and during HT you'll never notice the mythical "timbre" difference.

Or, if you are willing to pay more for prettier looks AND the mythical "match," you can get the Wharfedale Evo 4.4 or 4.3 towers with their 4.CS center in your choice of 3 colors --- order from Crutchfield for subsidized return shipping ($10 for the center, $75 for the towers):
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#79 ·
Q Acoustics similar to JBL has weak/mediocre centers, although the Concept center is reportedly better than the 3090i center despite sharing the same lousy 4" woofer size. The Concept 40 are more neutral than the 3090i so they'd be better for music.

Canton Chrono gets very good feedback on these forums, you just need to be ok with having a difficult return policy for non-defective returns when buying from accessories4less

Infinity Ref is an outstanding bargain when found on sale and would be great for HT/TV. For music, they are widely reported as having strong treble (although not the ear-bleeding type) as opposed to the Emotiva and Wharfedale.
 
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