[thrashmagazine]

What are peoples thoughts... my budget is under $1000, and was originally going to go with:


Canon VIXIA HF M41 ($740)


But after looking around I noticed that the below two Panny's are available for a lot cheaper than there regular cost...


Panasonic HDC-TM900K ($850)

Panasonic HDC-HS900K ($950)


Between the three, what are peoples thoughts on the better buy? Is the HS900K worth $100 more than the TM900K?


Are the Panny's better than the Canon by $100-$200?


I plan on shooting my wedding (outdoors) and my honeymoon (Ireland) and want a solid HD Camcorder. Not to mention, I want to play with a good one after the fact (I do band interviews, home movies and just fun around the world). Low light is needed but not a HUGE requirement. My original holdup on the Canon was the lens, so I am not sure what I should do now.

 

[Steve Cebu]

I had the TM900 and it is great outdoors or anyplace you have a lot of light. I haven't tried out the M41, I do own a Canon HF G10 and it's very good in low light. The TM900 is not very good in low light at all. So as long as you are using a lot of light the TM900 will look amazing. If they can sort out the model for next year I'll probably get one. I really like my HF G10 but would love to have the eye popping video that 1080p60p gives you. Also the fan in the TM900 can be heard at times in a silent room, which is a non-issue at a wedding.

 

[Ronomy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu /forum/post/20897579


I had the TM900 and it is great outdoors or anyplace you have a lot of light. I haven't tried out the M41, I do own a Canon HF G10 and it's very good in low light. The TM900 is not very good in low light at all. So as long as you are using a lot of light the TM900 will look amazing. If they can sort out the model for next year I'll probably get one. I really like my HF G10 but would love to have the eye popping video that 1080p60p gives you. Also the fan in the TM900 can be heard at times in a silent room, which is a non-issue at a wedding.

Steve, What don't you like about the low light capabilities of the TM900? The image is clean. Only issue I see is it doesn't focus as well and the color temp may shift but that can be fixed with forcing color to incandescent lighting and using manual focus.

 

[Ungermann]

Considering the listed models, I would choose between the HF M400 and the SD900, but that is me.

 

[thrashmagazine]

really stupid question, but the only difference between:


Panasonic HDC-TM900K ($850)

Panasonic HDC-HS900K ($950)


is the hard drive correct? I am just having trouble finding any reason to spend more on the HS model when I don't need more than maybe 2 hours of shooting without a computer.


I am also having issues finding any difference between the two that would justify the $500 price difference to begin with (regular prices not sale).

 

[Steve Cebu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy /forum/post/20897736


Steve, What don't you like about the low light capabilities of the TM900? The image is clean. Only issue I see is it doesn't focus as well and the color temp may shift but that can be fixed with forcing color to incandescent lighting and using manual focus.

I found that in a poorly lit room as soon as I amp up the gain to what my naked eye is seeing the TM900 will look as though I am looking through 2-3 screen doors. It's really hideous!


The canon has no problem with the exact same light on 9dB of gain and looks significantly better. Taken outdoors the TM900 looks better. But nothing would get the PQ up there except to really light up the room.

This is when it's displayed on a 52" HDTV. I had no focus isssues nor dd I have any color temp problems, but I always set my WB manually anyway except for outdoors.


I have videos of this on YouTube only I had to move under the light in the room for the video to be useable.

 

[T.Huntley]

From memory, Steve had a 'faulty' Tm900. The low light on mine is pretty decent. I just came back from Vegas and took a lot of night time video that has turned out really well

 

[Ronomy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Huntley /forum/post/20899515


From memory, Steve had a 'faulty' Tm900. The low light on mine is pretty decent. I just came back from Vegas and took a lot of night time video that has turned out really well

Vegas is pretty bright at night!

Video taken with my 1999 vintage Sony DVCAM looks great. Some recent video taken with my new TM90 indoors at the football hall of fame looks good so I know the TM900 must be pretty good too.


I don't understand why people are so picky about low light. My TM90 looks good so I cant see why the higher end Panasonic models would be worse. Plus Only this year the Canons have pulled ahead. Last year you needed 40 Lux for 50IRE levels with Canon's better camcorders. People still loved Canon cameras. My TM90 can do that in wide angle with only 9 Lux. The TM900: 6 Lux. That's not bad compared to the camcorders over the past several years since HD camcorders have come out.

 

[Steve Cebu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Huntley /forum/post/20899515


From memory, Steve had a 'faulty' Tm900. The low light on mine is pretty decent. I just came back from Vegas and took a lot of night time video that has turned out really well

No this was not the faulty one. The one I mean was ok except the fan was loud.


I had relatives who lived in North Las Vegas, it's a different type of light there. Those signs are bright, in a poorly lit room the picture will turn out differently. I found that I needed a heck of a lot more light with the TM900 than the HF G10 to get a great picture. The HF G10 is not as good with motion nor is it as good with bright light.

 

[bsprague]

What is "low light"? For the sake of discussion I put up two videos that are far from full daylight. These are straight from the camcorder with no editing.


The first at an outdoor concert at night, well past sunset. I'm using full auto, default settings and maximum zoom on a mono-pod. Yes, the star is well lit but look at the other parts. There is some detail almost everywhere. Yes, the colors are off because colored lights were being used. Yet, the performance of my SDT750 (part of the 900 line) is PDG (pretty darn good). It is impressive on a 55 inch TV. And, BTW, the sound is PDG too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHd5XU3aX-Q


I took the second just now for this discussion. I used some "models" that belong to my wife and live in the bathroom next to my office. I started with full room light. The bulbs are CFLs, so it is a little yellow. You can still see some detail with the lights off and a door open. Then, for the fun of it, I used a LED shop light that was really cheap at an Ace Hardware sale. Notice the brief moment I "bounced" the light off the ceiling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSI7vkNq9mU


Another clip that surprised me was of a guy that jumped off a cliff wearing a paraglider. Also in full auto with max zoom, the camera had to figure out how to get the bright blue sky under control and then shift to a dark background of trees, water and grass while I did the aiming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUynclMH708


The point? The Panny works in "low light" as well as difficult light. You can make it dark enough that it won't, but I can't help but think most amatuers will be impressed and happy with it.


Bill

 

[bsprague]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thrashmagazine /forum/post/20898116


really stupid question, but the only difference between:


Panasonic HDC-TM900K ($850)

Panasonic HDC-HS900K ($950)


is the hard drive correct?

Yes. I think the video world is shifting to SD card memory because it is so convenient.


I bought an HDC-SDT750 for $750 because it seems to have all the same features of the 900, including a viewfinder. It also uses a cheaper battery and comes with an external charger and HDMI cord. And, I liked that it has only SD cards -- like the SD800.

 

[dan4081]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague /forum/post/20901807


What is "low light"? For the sake of discussion I put up two videos that are far from full daylight. These are straight from the camcorder with no editing.


The first at an outdoor concert at night, well past sunset. I'm using full auto, default settings and maximum zoom on a mono-pod. Yes, the star is well lit but look at the other parts. There is some detail almost everywhere. Yes, the colors are off because colored lights were being used. Yet, the performance of my SDT750 (part of the 900 line) is PDG (pretty darn good). It is impressive on a 55 inch TV. And, BTW, the sound is PDG too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHd5XU3aX-Q


I took the second just now for this discussion. I used some "models" that belong to my wife and live in the bathroom next to my office. I started with full room light. The bulbs are CFLs, so it is a little yellow. You can still see some detail with the lights off and a door open. Then, for the fun of it, I used a LED shop light that was really cheap at an Ace Hardware sale. Notice the brief moment I "bounced" the light off the ceiling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSI7vkNq9mU


Another clip that surprised me was of a guy that jumped off a cliff wearing a paraglider. Also in full auto with max zoom, the camera had to figure out how to get the bright blue sky under control and then shift to a dark background of trees, water and grass while I did the aiming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUynclMH708


The point? The Panny works in "low light" as well as difficult light. You can make it dark enough that it won't, but I can't help but think most amatuers will be impressed and happy with it.


Bill

Links dont seem to be working?

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

He'll have to set it to either unlisted or public.

 

[bsprague]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/20902024


He'll have to set it to either unlisted or public.

Oops. I got confused between "private" and "unlisted". They are not worth being "public".

 

[Steve Cebu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsprague What is "low light"? For the sake of discussion I put up two videos that are far from full daylight. These are straight from the camcorder with no editing. The first at an outdoor concert at night, well past sunset. I'm using full auto, default settings and maximum zoom on a mono-pod. Yes, the star is well lit but look at the other parts. There is some detail almost everywhere. Yes, the colors are off because colored lights were being used. Yet, the performance of my SDT750 (part of the 900 line) is PDG (pretty darn good). It is impressive on a 55 inch TV. And, BTW, the sound is PDG too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHd5XU3aX-Q I took the second just now for this discussion. I used some "models" that belong to my wife and live in the bathroom next to my office. I started with full room light. The bulbs are CFLs, so it is a little yellow. You can still see some detail with the lights off and a door open. Then, for the fun of it, I used a LED shop light that was really cheap at an Ace Hardware sale. Notice the brief moment I "bounced" the light off the ceiling. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSI7vkNq9mU Another clip that surprised me was of a guy that jumped off a cliff wearing a paraglider. Also in full auto with max zoom, the camera had to figure out how to get the bright blue sky under control and then shift to a dark background of trees, water and grass while I did the aiming. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUynclMH708 The point? The Panny works in "low light" as well as difficult light. You can make it dark enough that it won't, but I can't help but think most amatuers will be impressed and happy with it. Bill

Here is a video I posted from my TM900 a while back it went from an 800 lumen floodlight on one side of the room to no direct light on the other side of the room. This was in full auto mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_oc30P14uU

 

[bsprague]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Cebu Here is a video I posted from my TM900 a while back it went from an 800 lumen floodlight on one side of the room to no direct light on the other side of the room. This was in full auto mode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_oc30P14uU

It looks good to me. Why is it suggested the Panasonics can't do "low light"?

 

[Steve Cebu]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague /forum/post/20903511


It looks good to me. Why is it suggested the Panasonics can't do "low light"?

Because that is underneath an 800 lumen CFL bulb. If I took the video from over where my laptop is it would look like you were looking through a screen door. Look at that video when I pan to the right as it gets darker it gets grainy.

Well if I move away from the light forget it! Skin tones suffer as well. I did a lot of testing before I returned it. However if it doesn't bother you then buy it, because it is a decent camcorder just not as good as the Canon HF G10.

Now I'm hoping in March they will have either a significantly improved Panny or Canon going to 1080p60p.

That is if I haven't moved back overseas for work.

 

[Ronomy]

My wife can't stand anything less than a couple 300 watt bulbs turned on in the room so my TM90 can handle that just fine. LOL


I was at a birthday party at a beach restaurant today and boy did my 28mm wide lens TM90 work out great. I didn't even have to get up off my chair. Everybody fit in the field of view. The Canon G10 can probably do that too but its over 3x's more $ and its a bigger camera. Still happy with my decision to spend only $430 for the TM90. It gave me the extra cash to get flash cards and extra battery. Also external separate battery charger.


Even though I didn't need a wide angle attachement I still grabbed a 0.3x fisheye lens...for special effects.


Pretty cool! Just stick it in my pocket...with its own auto lens cover. I am getting video I would never get with my old camcorder.


Ron