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We'll see...

I haven't even cracked open the 131 page REW manual yet, so this will probably not exactly happen tomorrow. :)
You don't need that lol, just load your mic cal file and run sweeps of each individual speaker in at least 3 positions around your main listening position and you should get decent measurements.

As far as your listening tests are you able to switch back and forth quickly or are you just swapping out speakers every once in awhile? It's so much easier spotting differences if you can instantly switch back and forth, it's crazy how bad our aural memory is. It's nice to see the Wharfedale EVO series is good, they are definitely an underrated speaker manufacturer.
 

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As far as your listening tests are you able to switch back and forth quickly or are you just swapping out speakers every once in awhile? It's so much easier spotting differences if you can instantly switch back and forth, it's crazy how bad our aural memory is. It's nice to see the Wharfedale EVO series is good, they are definitely an underrated speaker manufacturer.
Oh I haven't done any switching yet. That will be the last step. Right now am just continuing to enjoy the Evos by themselves. I want to see if anything jumps out at me when I switch back to the BMRs...this is an auditioning method that David Fabrikant suggested many years ago (can't remember if it was to me directly or to someone else on some other forum). When I do ABing, I'll start by using Zone B-A switching through the receiver, though obviously that does take the subs out of the equation as well as any EQing. Maybe I'll add those two elements last.
 
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As for your second paragraph. There's definitely a strong ID brand bias on this forum(as opposed to other forums). I think it somewhat stems from empathy. IMO, it's harder to criticize ID brands, as it feels like criticizing an individual person, and often the owners post on this forums themselves. In contrast, criticizing giant companies like Polk easier, as that individual human connection doesn't really exist.
Three ID companies that comment on here take criticism with a grain of salt as they reasonably expect that not all listeners will have the same taste as the products they design no matter the measurements.

Dennis at Philharmonic Audio when he was still in business, the owner of Ascend and the person in charge at SVS.

Water off a duck's back.

A couple of others, however, who most of you know, have been known to get downright hostile at any slight, perceived or otherwise, which, to me, is offputting.
 

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Three ID companies that comment on here take criticism with a grain of salt as they reasonably expect that not all listeners will have the same taste as the products they design no matter the measurements.

Dennis at Philharmonic Audio when he was still in business, the owner of Ascend and the person in charge at SVS.

Water off a duck's back.

A couple of others, however, who most of you know, have been known to get downright hostile at any slight, perceived or otherwise, which, to me, is offputting.

Mr. Fabrikant at Ascend was very helpful. There was another owner/designer with whom I interacted and the discussion was very uncomfortable. That individual has a reputation for being...odd. I'm trying to pick my words carefully so as to not be insulting. Suffice to say I will not give that individual's speakers another glance nor will I recommend them to anyone.
 

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Oh I haven't done any switching yet. That will be the last step. Right now am just continuing to enjoy the Evos by themselves. I want to see if anything jumps out at me when I switch back to the BMRs...this is an auditioning method that David Fabrikant suggested many years ago (can't remember if it was to me directly or to someone else on some other forum). When I do ABing, I'll start by using Zone B-A switching through the receiver, though obviously that does take the subs out of the equation as well as any EQing. Maybe I'll add those two elements last.
Yeah I've heard some with the same philosophy, it doesn't hurt to try multiple ways of comparing but my only problem with eliminating the speaker where "something is missing", is you'll always choose the brighter speaker. Being able to instantly switch back and forth is much easier because it should be obvious which one sounds more natural or better to your ears. I think comparing without EQ and without subs is probably the best way anyway, you don't want other variables impacting the comparison.
 

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We'll see...

I haven't even cracked open the 131 page REW manual yet, so this will probably not exactly happen tomorrow. :)
Made my eyes roll back in my head which is why I got fed up with it when the auto EQ REW measurements wouldn't download to my minidsp so I just viewed the measurements and used the manual Parametric EQ function in the minidsp to knock down the peaks in the subwoofer area, double checked the results, and then packed up the Umik and set it on the shelf to gather dust as I was satisfied with the results.

Oddly, as I've mentioned before, the speakers themselves measured well in my room despite not measuring well on Sound & Vision.
 

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Oddly, as I've mentioned before, the speakers themselves measured well in my room despite not measuring well on Sound & Vision.
This is one of the nagging doubts I have about measurements...how duplicable their results are or aren't.

The ability to duplicate results in multiple studies is one of the cornerstones of scientific rigor, after all.
 

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This is one of the nagging doubts I have about measurements...how duplicable their results are or aren't.

The ability to duplicate results in multiple studies is one of the cornerstones of scientific rigor, after all.
You hear several mantras.

1) the room is critical

2) measurements are important

But measurements, to the best of my knowledge, are usually made in a huge space, like Sound & Vision does to minimize room effects, in an anechoic chamber like those in the Soundstage measurements, or outside using some standardized protocols, (speakers on a ladder, microphone elevated and whatnot).

So the speakers are measured in a "neutral" environment, which makes sense, but then most of us plonk them in a room that is not a dedicated listening space but an actual room with furniture of different sizes, shapes, material, walls that are bare, nearly bare, or full of crap, (like mine), carpets, no carpets, wood, cement etc. and then ceilings and, of course, room shape, number of windows, openings to other rooms, ceiling fans or no ceiling fans, basically a thousand variables with dozens if not hundreds of tweaks on those variables.

So with all that in one room a speaker that "measures well" on Soundstage and in another, a speaker that measures like crap on Sound and Vision both sound good to my ears.

So will a good measuring speaker like your room or hate it and will a poor measuring speaker like your room or hate it?

I have no idea!

Bottom line, listen at home and decide with your ears as it seems logical that your room measurements won't represent some other person's measurement but, for sure, if you can do them, go ahead, so that we can see if the measurements correlate with what you are hearing.

I suspect your Umik will end up gathering dust like mine! :p
 

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Made my eyes roll back in my head which is why I got fed up with it when the auto EQ REW measurements wouldn't download to my minidsp so I just viewed the measurements and used the manual Parametric EQ function in the minidsp to knock down the peaks in the subwoofer area, double checked the results, and then packed up the Umik and set it on the shelf to gather dust as I was satisfied with the results.

Oddly, as I've mentioned before, the speakers themselves measured well in my room despite not measuring well on Sound & Vision.
Did you measure yours with the grill on or off? Sound and Vision keeps the grills on, which can make a big difference above 2 kHz or so.
 

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Did you measure yours with the grill on or off? Sound and Vision keeps the grills on, which can make a big difference above 2 kHz or so.
I measured them as I use them, grills on, same with the subs.

I have cats and I don't trust them! :p

And those are some "grills" let me tell you on the LX16s.

You literally could put them on your grill and grill veggies on them! :p
 

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Did you measure yours with the grill on or off? Sound and Vision keeps the grills on, which can make a big difference above 2 kHz or so.
Interesting...does every speaker measure so differently depending on having the grills on or off?
 

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So the speakers are measured in a "neutral" environment, which makes sense, but then most of us plonk them in a room that is not a dedicated listening space but an actual room with furniture of different sizes, shapes, material, walls that are bare, nearly bare, or full of crap, (like mine), carpets, no carpets, wood, cement etc. and then ceilings and, of course, room shape, number of windows, openings to other rooms, ceiling fans or no ceiling fans, basically a thousand variables with dozens if not hundreds of tweaks on those variables.
Room effects are real but a room will generally affect all speakers the same way within that room (given the same positioning etc). A speaker you like best in one listening environment will most likely be the one you like best in another.
 

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Room effects are real but a room will generally affect all speakers the same way within that room (given the same positioning etc). A speaker you like best in one listening environment will most likely be the one you like best in another.
They measured poorly when done "professionally."

I shouldn't like them, the fact that I do means I am not worthy of owning quality speakers. :p

I should be ashamed and banned from AVS.
 

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Room effects are real but a room will generally affect all speakers the same way within that room (given the same positioning etc). A speaker you like best in one listening environment will most likely be the one you like best in another.
On a more serious note, I did test the poor measuring LX16s vs the Q Acoustics Concept 20s that have measured very well in at least one publication.

Here in my room, full range and with subs in play I liked them equally though I did prefer the tiniest bit more detail of the LX16s.

More recently tested the LX16s against the KLH Albany which I have seen no measurements for and they were, for me and my friends, simply awful in comparison.

Beautiful looking but dull and lifeless.
 

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Interesting...does every speaker measure so differently depending on having the grills on or off?
Pretty much. It's possible to produce a front baffle designed specifically to create a smooth surface with the grill on--usually, the grill frame would be recessed into the edges of the baffle. The response would usually be worse with the grills off because the recessed rim would cause diffraction effects. The saving grace of a conventional grill is that the peaks and dips seen on axis will change frequency as you move off axis and the overall response will tend to even out. Here's a BMR with the grill off on axis, with the grill in place on axis, and then 30 degrees off axis, grill on.
 

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Mr. Fabrikant at Ascend was very helpful. There was another owner/designer with whom I interacted and the discussion was very uncomfortable. That individual has a reputation for being...odd. I'm trying to pick my words carefully so as to not be insulting. Suffice to say I will not give that individual's speakers another glance nor will I recommend them to anyone.
Dave and Dina are awesome to work with. I’m picking up a pair of Sierra 2-ex in natural bamboo and Luna duo center on Monday :D can’t wait.

Would you mind sharing who the other designer is? PM me if you want
 

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Dave and Dina are awesome to work with. I’m picking up a pair of Sierra 2-ex in natural bamboo and Luna duo center on Monday :D can’t wait.

Would you mind sharing who the other designer is? PM me if you want
I read through my post a few times just to make sure I could not be guilty of defamation and indeed there are no comments there that are of that nature. They reflect my opinion and my interpretation of the unfortunate interactions with the individual. Interestingly enough there have been several of the long term members here who echoed the same information and actually a few who sent me PMs giving me what I'll call warnings when I let everyone that I was going to speak with the designer.

Chane
 
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I read through my post a few times just to make sure I could not be guilty of defamation and indeed there are no comments there that are of that nature. They reflect my opinion and my interpretation of the unfortunate interactions with the individual. Interestingly enough there have been several of the long term members here who echoed the same information and actually a few who sent me PMs giving me what I'll call warnings when I let everyone that I was going to speak with the designer.

Chane
I figured this is who you were talking about. I’ve heard unflattering comments over the years it’s the main reason I’ve never given their speakers a shot.
 

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I figured this is who you were talking about. I’ve heard unflattering comments over the years it’s the main reason I’ve never given their speakers a shot.
Yes, I can't give them/him my money and can't recommend that anyone does. Interestingly enough just today I have received 2 other PM's that echo precisely what we are saying. Unfortunate for him.
 

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I read through my post a few times just to make sure I could not be guilty of defamation and indeed there are no comments there that are of that nature. They reflect my opinion and my interpretation of the unfortunate interactions with the individual. Interestingly enough there have been several of the long term members here who echoed the same information and actually a few who sent me PMs giving me what I'll call warnings when I let everyone that I was going to speak with the designer.

Chane
You're entitled to your opinion about anything you wish, Gary, but when things become personal most people won't stay silent.

I have all the notes of our brief interaction, spanning product sale to product return and including one conversation in which I attempted to advise you how to improve your public evaluation - for all participants - using a half a dozen common fixes to your setup. I asked you if we could discuss and you agreed we'd talk.

The points ranged from how to properly stand a speaker and get it off resonant furniture, to how to evaluate one pair alone and at a time, to how a very bright, empty room wasn't conducive to any evaluation, to why one never uses an electrically reactive switcher - inserting it between tests, if I'm not mistaken - to get a real sense of sound, and more. You wanted none of it and the call was promptly terminated. I said I'd consider if to make these suggestions in your report instead.

In short, through this episode I offered to purchase and ship you a pair of good quality stands at my personal expense. I asked you to be advised how to remedy your setup for the good of all involved. I extended your trial period for as long as you wished, after which you emailed to say there'd be yet another evaluation, presumably based on the same setup faults. There was no further discussion. (Now apparently you're in another room using a completely different speaker system.)

Lastly, you held this final evaluation in reserve against Chane's returning your product. We'd already accepted your return, in writing and by policy, even days or weeks after expiration. At no point did we know just what would transpire, leaving us to take a wait and see approach.

All of which is fine as far as it goes. It happens. But now apparently it's personal.

I realize the attention may be fun but no such evaluation is really Al Pacino taking down Big Tobacco for Sixty Minutes. We actually do this for purely idealistic reasons and I'm not surprised when from time to time good intent is turned negative. For our part we chipped in, not once but a number of times.

I'm happy to work with any genuine listener and as a matter of fact, we work with hundreds every year and have for nearly twenty years. It's regretful you see us in some adversarial light.
 
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