AVS Forum banner

21 - 40 of 197 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
Have to discuss next year. Time to go make appearance as a Family NYE Party.

Happy New Year to all my friends here in the 3D section. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Barry C

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,584 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Barry, As you know, shutter angles were meant for physical film camera shutters. IE. 1/48 or 180° shutter angle was (and probably still is) the defacto for 24fps film to avoid judder I believe. In DSLRs that use top/bottom curtains for shutters for video, as I understand it, the sensor is also being scanned 24fps (or whatever fps you are using) while the shutter is left open. I researched this for Gopro, and found out that they don't have a physical shutter, but do pixel line scanning (ie. 1080p would scan 1080 lines). I researched that when I had the genlock problem with gopro 3+ cameras if both are right side up for 3D--causing one eye to be scanned top bottom, while the other bottom up. The genlock was then 180° out of phase, and I could not correct that in Edius when the L/R eyes were combined for stereo, unless I stabilized each eye separately, then combined them. (Though, I think that is a coincidence with your shutter angle question).

Forcing the slowest shutter when using 24fps (or 30fps, but less so for 60fps) is probably the best solution with digital cameras from what I've read, but only if you can set the ISO and aperture, then use an ND filter--no easy to do in Gopro. You will give up sharpness for frame blend blur, though. The issue is also, when scanning the sensor, if the subject is moving, the top lines scanned will expose a slightly different image than the bottom lines scanned. If the sensor is fast enough, though, 1/48 can expose the sensor all at once, causing little cmos warping, but blur the image just enough to blend each frame to avoid judder.

I might be singing to the choir here, but here's a good synopsis of how to handle shutter angle: https://vanillavideo.com/blog/2012/shutter-speed-and-shutter-angle-explained
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,458 Posts
Bob, I was really only concerned with regard to filming 4K- or 1080- with my Sonys, not the GP as it's effectively beyond control. Generally, even in the digital non film camera era, the 180 degree shutter still seems best overall- IMO. This would mean shutter speed of 1/60th second for 30fps and effectively for 24p as well. For fast moving subjects or where you think you will want to do slomo in post, probably 120th would be good. For 60fps, probably for most situations, 120th is good starting point. I was just struggling a bit to find the best shutter speed for cascading water filmed at 30fps. For the 120fps slomo setting on the camera, 250th probably good in most cases. However, here a fast lens or higher ISO might be essential.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,458 Posts
PS:
Happy New Year everybody!

Big plans for tonight, I'll be home tonight watching movies with my son. Come to think of it, I do that every weekend:)

Tonight, if I can stay awake until midnight, might set up a camera on the back deck and time lapse the fireworks over the downtown casinos.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
Do you generally run and gun on auto or do you sometimes set shutter priority on your camcorders for 180 degrees or less if faster action is involved?
Barry making shutter angle custom is for the professional cameras. As I have said many times, for what I do, Content is King. That means I depend on the Camera's AUTO setting to take care of my routine settings. In almost all my work now as an amateur, I go for lots of content and don't waste time tinkering with the camera to squeeze that last 1% of quality. More important for me to have 50 average pictures or video clips than 1 or 2 near perfect ones.

Back in the day, when I did my TV shows, and had the budgeted time for a remote setup, I would set up each camera on the set with test equipment, carefully adjust lighting for shadow control as nearly all my shoots were green screen. Use the defaults for shutter angle. I don't even recall my broadcast cameras having that adjustment. Just shutter speed. Single camera green screen are pretty straight forward. 4 cameras very precise lighting was necessary. Today everything I do is based on a clear image on the monitor and then pull the trigger. I worry about the big problems first, like camera shake, then through the glass reflections, and lastly the image judder and motion blur. I have camera shake pretty much under control. Still working on the through the glass reflections. That is the tough one to resolve. Especially with GoPro wide angle lenses.

I don't even have the option on the NEX5n, only shutter speed when in manual.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
http://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-pro/

They have samples to view. A little expensive but I would be game if I can confirm my Giroptic360 (a 2K 2D VR camera) brings some real benefit to my projects. So far it looks good as far as popularity with my family content but not so much for documentaries.

$3000 cost would put it in the category of the investment I did in the kit for my Panasonic 3D camera and accessories.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
Barry, the metadata can be added once you render the edited 360 stitched video to an MP4 file. There is a tool for that you can download for free. I would imagine that editors like Edius will add a plugin one day to do it automatically. The tool adds the metadata in just a few seconds. It works for Facebook and You Tube as well as the Giroptic player for local playback.

More importantly, you need to see if the camera system offers stitching software because that will be special to each camera configuration. Mine does it in firmware so the output is one file already stitched. This insta360 looks like it saves a file for each camera and then you use their software to stitch the files to a single 360. This would be an extra step before you can edit.

Editing 360 file in Vegas or Edius only requires you use a custom pixel AR, whatever the camera specifies. Mine is 2048 x 1024. That way the left and right edges will stitch in the player. You can edit the video clip with cuts and dissolves. I haven't tried other transitions yet. PIP and adding CG or other 2D images is not that easy but there is a plugin for After Effects now that will do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,584 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Damn, now that does look impressive!! Bob, you go first.:)
I have my eye on this one: http://uploadvr.com/hubblo-360-vr-camera-streaming-4k-3d-portable/ for about $1,000. This one does live streaming as well. No sample video, though.

I just found this facebook page that looks at all these cameras and more: https://www.facebook.com/360video.it

This is an interesting gadget for Android phones for $99. Check out the sample video.
http://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-air/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,584 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
Don and Barry, I just looked at page 1 and see that I missed a whole conversation about youtube and Don--your 360 degree video has really inspired me. What a great way to capture an event and the whole environment. I sure would have liked that in Africa from some shots, as well as for home capture of Christmas and holiday events. I'm looking at that Android 360 camera gadget I described above. If it's any good, I might get one. Problem I see, though, from the videos is the ultra-wide angle of that little gadget. Your camera, Don, appears to have a more realistic viewing angle.

On a side note, you two talked about all the hits you are getting. A friend of ours posted her daughter's wedding video on youtube and made it public. She monetized it, not really knowing what she was doing, and has been making a nice little monthly income from it. She's also added other wedding prep videos and such. Some have background music she said is copyrighted, but they don't seem to care. I thought that was interesting as you guys get lots of hits on your videos. I realize you don't want to be seen as doing what you do for money, but having a little income to buy more toys always comes in handy. I'm trying to learn from her how she does it as I think I'm going to post my Africa videos like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,458 Posts
Bob, as low level as my channel is, I wouldn't expect more than $10. a month. It takes an awful lot of hits to make any real money. Furthermore, it's my understanding that you only get paid for hits if the people actually watch most of the ads. Your friend to be making any real money is in a whole other league. My channel featuring underwater 3D and some 2D is strictly at the boutique level. Lately, probably all together, it may do 1000 views per week. This is chump change in the YouTube ecosystem.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
Ditto what Barry said on monetizing the video. It opens up a whole can of worms too. If you do have a hit because you videoed a cat having sex with a dog and put music to it, unless you wrote the music and performed it yourself, get ready for the claims on your money. I made a lot of money with my TV production company. YT is not the way to pay for your toys. You'd do much better investing in GoPro stock and riding the market hype, buying and selling of the little peaks and valleys that happen every week.


Back to 360 VR. It is getting quite a lot of attention at CES this year.

The Giroptic has a new release for the iphone too for $250.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: Barry C

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
The Giroptic for iphone uses just 2 cameras so it does have added horizon curvature from the 3 camera systems. This device is more for the instant upload to social media than what we do with our content. It will be welcomed for that as well as selfie Facebook and instagram fanboys.

BTW- that $3000 6 camera system appears to have a far superior image stabilizer than my Giroptic360. They have a video sample of it in action. I was really impressed.
The lower resolutions do have instant stitching too. But the 8K stuff has to use external software for that. Not too many details on how that work flow is accomplished. Need further research.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,971 Posts
While these goggles and head gear are not my thing, I thought the author was not seeing how many who are into VR gaming like what is coming out. My nephew saw my Giroptic360 video and asked me whether I will be getting the OR goggles next. I told him no, as I'm seeing this camera for a different purpose than creating games. He has been into the OR development for quite some time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,458 Posts
I'd be interested in watching well shot 360 through the goggles once I'm convinced that the hardware has gotten to the point where it really looks good. I have no personal experience with them but from what I hear from people who's opinion I trust- including some of you guys on the forum- it doesn't sound like they're where I would like them to be yet. The article didn't offer any additional encouragement in that regard. I should point out that I have no interest in gaming- I leave that to my teenaged son.
 

·
Preditor
Joined
·
1,509 Posts
Been working in VR for quite a while, and my recommendation is that if the camera doesn't support 60fps, skip it. Most of the cameras do not support 60fps. It's often custom rigs (i.e. multiple GoPro's) that can achieve these frame rates.

Anything less than 60 leads to a less than stellar experience. Image judder is a huge obstacle when you're moving your head, and your eyes are trying to adjust focus but the image refreshes so slowly. It induces headaches, motion sickness, and a lack of enjoyment. If it's 3D, it's worse - your eyes are trying to focus and process the 3D image during movement, but the video judder during head movement makes for an abysmal experience.

Editing, you'd need to look at programs like Kolor and others - I haven't seen multicam VR Support out of Premiere or other programs.

Outside of custom GoPro rigs (many out there) the only other consumer VR camera (not out yet) that can shoot 60fps or higher that also happens to shoot 3D is the LucidCam VR (it shoots 180 degree, not 360).

But all these other consumer cameras like Kodak, Nikon, etc. etc. that shoot 30fps are gimmicky at best.

My .02
 
21 - 40 of 197 Posts
Top