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The VUZE looks really good and I'm happy to see they are shipping although 6 weeks projected delivery time.

When the latest smart phones are out with 4K screens we may be able to resolve the pixelated VR goggles problem but I'm thinking a system with 8K may be necessary to fix that.


The editing and processing according to the Vuze website will require rather robust state of the art computer too. So far I only see Sony as offering a 4K screen on a cell phone according to this source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high-definition_smartphone_displays

I have an iphone 6+ which is restricted to 1920 pixel width and for VR goggles the pixels are halved from that. So when I view full 1920 content the goggles display make it 960 square AR. I do think it is a good match for my Giroptic360 camera. Certainly not production quality but a fun toy to experiment with.


I think the price is fair at $799. I would spring for one but the timing right now is not good for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #142
Don, my new Samsung 8 does 2960x1440, but runs at 2220x1080 as the higher resolution eats the battery time very quickly. I think that will be a big problem with 4K phones as well, and they will probably run at a lesser resolution as well, unless turned up. I have yet to try VR on it as I just got it today. Will see how that looks this weekend.

I think $799 for an 8-camera VR VUZE is dirt cheap compared with gopro 1 camera cost. That's $100 a camera. However, the proof is in the image pudding, we'll see...
 

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Discussion Starter #144 (Edited)
After looking at the specs, the Insta360 is using 4K cameras and through stitching is achieving 8megapixel images. Of course, we know that 4K video is 8meg of pixels, so I think it's simply 4k UHD (8meg pixels) resolution that is extended into 360. It's very confusing, but an attempt I think, to upsell the device for higher resolution that is simply there by default. When I try to explain to my friends that 4k UHD is really 8meg resolution, they give me a blank look.

The Vuze 360 page says enjoy 4K resolution, and even they are saying it wrong. 4K cameras give 8meg resolution...ugh.

4K UHDTV is 3840 pixels wide by 2160 pixels tall (8.29 megapixels), which is four times as many pixels as 1920 × 1080 (2.07 megapixels). 8K UHDTV is 7680 pixels wide by 4320 pixels tall (33.18 megapixels). I'm sure you all know this...

Why the industry chose to name by image width rather than image resolution is beyond me. I'm sure there was a good reason for this:rolleyes:
 

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Don, my new Samsung 8 does 2960x1440, but runs at 2220x1080 as the higher resolution eats the battery time very quickly. I think that will be a big problem with 4K phones as well, and they will probably run at a lesser resolution as well, unless turned up. I have yet to try VR on it as I just got it today. Will see how that looks this weekend.

I think $799 for an 8-camera VR VUZE is dirt cheap compared with gopro 1 camera cost. That's $100 a camera. However, the proof is in the image pudding, we'll see...
I'm eager to hear how good the VR looks on your Samsung 8 at that screen resolution. It will be an indicator whether the new iphone that is supposed to be 4K will be adequate. It doesn't really matter about battery life that much because for now most of us will not be wearing them for hours, just for a few minutes of VR experience. So, set the resolution up for a few minutes and then back down for regular phone use.

Can you download a VR app? The VUZE site has lots of 3D and 2D video you can download and an app to test.


My concern with the Vuze camera is the back order timing. I'd be concerned it would arrive late for my next trip. Besides, I'm not ready to sell that GoPro stock yet to pay for it. :(
 

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Why the industry chose to name by image width rather than image resolution is beyond me. I'm sure there was a good reason for this
4K 4096 is actually DCI or digital cinema initiative. UHD is the consumer home video standard or 3840 x 2160. My projector does 4096 because Sony decided to use the same chip set as they use in their commercial Cinema projectors, but other than test patterns, I have no content that displays out to 4096, so I crop it out and expand the image out to fill the width of my screen.
 

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The Vuze 360 page says enjoy 4K resolution, and even they are saying it wrong. 4K cameras give 8meg resolution...ugh.
Actually the way Vuze is describing it is correct.

The Vuze has 1080p cameras, that when stitched together is a 4K image. Semantics, but that's different than sourcing a 4K output from 4K native recordings which the Insta360 is doing.

I've looked at the Vuze, and like the Lucidcam, look underwhelming. I appreciate the 3D capability and all-in-one feature (vs. a half dozen GoPros), but still find it to be lacking in detail, etc. Compared to what I saw back in 2016 at CES, it doesn't look like it's evolved much (still 30fps????).

Anyway, to each his own, certain tools work for certain people. I had someone email me about the LucidCam specifically for S3D, and I told them I'd rather watch S3D from my Sony TD10/20/30/50 cameras over the LucidCam.
 

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After looking at the specs, the Insta360 is using 4K cameras and through stitching is achieving 8megapixel images. Of course, we know that 4K video is 8meg of pixels, so I think it's simply 4k UHD (8meg pixels) resolution that is extended into 360. It's very confusing, but an attempt I think, to upsell the device for higher resolution that is simply there by default. When I try to explain to my friends that 4k UHD is really 8meg resolution, they give me a blank look.

The Vuze 360 page says enjoy 4K resolution, and even they are saying it wrong. 4K cameras give 8meg resolution...ugh.

4K UHDTV is 3840 pixels wide by 2160 pixels tall (8.29 megapixels), which is four times as many pixels as 1920 × 1080 (2.07 megapixels). 8K UHDTV is 7680 pixels wide by 4320 pixels tall (33.18 megapixels). I'm sure you all know this...

Why the industry chose to name by image width rather than image resolution is beyond me. I'm sure there was a good reason for this:rolleyes:
K and P are for ~16:9 video, MP is for ~4:3 stills. That's just the norm for camera specs.

Technically, these 360 cameras are capturing what the TV industry considers 4K- the source files I downloaded from Insta360 are 3840x3840. It's just that VR 360 video fills 6-8x as much area horizontally, so it looks sub-HD. In a perfect world, VR camera manufacturers would use a pixels-per-degree spec to keep the everyman's expectations in check, because it could be a long time before perceived 4K TV-like IQ is consumer-ready. My guess is that cameras will need to output in 24K and headsets will need 6K per eye/12K total.
 

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I've been reviewing the VUZE minimum requirements. Unlike my Giroptic360 that shoots a 2K file that is 2:1 AR. But you only view 1/3 of the image so the effective pixels viewed is only about 670 pixels in width, the stitching is all done in the camera hardware. The VUZE, doesn't offer this feature so you must offload the camera files to a PC and do the stitching with software using a program called HumanEyes. But here is where the surprise enters your life- The hardware to run this software must be the latest CPU and graphics processors that support AVX ( Advanced Vector Technology ). The VUZE site allows you to down load the HumanEyes program for free so you can see if it will install. I tested it on my 3D editing computer and it is not robust enough. The CPU, an i7-950 does not support AVX. So I tried my most recent hardware, the MS Surface Pro with an i5 processor that supports AVX and it will support the install of the HumanEyes Program. But other parts of the Surface Pro are only bare minimum , not optimum, to run it. That tells me it will work, but be very slow.

I hope I am interpreting this correctly. There is no way to actually test the speed yet because to activate the HumanEyes program you need to have a VUZE serial number from the camera.

So what this tells me is that as the cameras for 360° get up to speed for the quality we expect in the viewable screen from the total sphere of available VR world, the camera being 8K or higher just to see HD video quality, is not the only bottleneck, the computer to work with these files will need to be humongous and the latest state of the art.


I believe that until these head sets become much smaller, like the size of a pair of sunglasses, they will never become popular. Instead, most will view the 360° videos in a You Tube window or Facebook with pan around using a mouse. The image quality is better this way although not as good as what we expect for HD. The goggles reduce the viewed quality even more but offer the advantage of looking around by glancing around and you are encased into the virtual world, with 3D, like you are there. But the image is still "fuzzy" so that is the remaining reality check with the goggles.

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3DBob and I did some comparing image quality since we have the same goggles and have 1080 x 1920 or more, cell phones for display. In comparing the VUZE vs the Giroptic360 images we both agreed that the quality was about the same on the Goggles and cell phone. It seems to us the limiting factor was the cell phone resolution. Neither of us have 3840x2160 at this time. I may upgrade to one later this year as I am eligible for upgrade to the new iphone 8 which is rumored to be 4K screen. Today, the only 4K phone out is made by Sony.

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Another interesting use for the 360 3D camera is by attaching the VUZE to a Drone. This has already been tried for some interesting results. The VUZE weighs in at 1 pound to the dji Mavic Pro can barely lift it and the load will drain the batteries 4 times as fast.
 
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Most people are probably watching 360 videos handheld on their smartphones. 90% of daily facebook users are accessing it on their phones, and compared to dragging a mouse, panning and tilting a 360 video like you're there filming it in realtime is more responsive, intuitive, and immersive.
 

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Cakefoo-
Yeah, a little phone screen held a foot away, is quite forgiving on the fractional limiting factor for pixel resolution of a 360 video. Unless you're an enthusiast the goggles will never become mainstream. Next time my grandsons are here, I will let them try the goggles to see what their reaction is. I have kids active 3D glasses for both and at age 6 and 9 both love 3D and now sit through a whole movie in 3D. Under 5, not so much.

For this old guy, I'm just fascinated with all this stuff. But, it's good I'm not trying to make a living at it. :)


BTW- the 360 video I shot of the Family Christmas gift exchange party was a huge hit. Also, 360° tours of the cruise ship, also was a hit among cruise enthusiasts.
 

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That's great to hear your content is finding its audience.

I checked out Insta360's 4K stereo samples in my Vive last night. Image quality is good. I'll wait for a 60p model though. Ideally 90p, actually.
 

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That's great to hear your content is finding its audience.

I checked out Insta360's 4K stereo samples in my Vive last night. Image quality is good. I'll wait for a 60p model though. Ideally 90p, actually.
I assume you mean the Pro version. You have to be pretty dedicated to the genre to spend that kind of money. :)


I viewed the YI Halo samples on my goggles and iphone and they didn't look much better than the Giroptic or the VUZE. Until I see new goggles, I can't see spending for anything more than the 4K Vuze. Only reason for the VUZE cost is it is 3D and I'm sold on the 3D look with the goggles, even with the crappy resolution. After the VUZE or similar camera, I'll shop or wait for better goggles.
 

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Bob- I see that VUZE camera on ebay bid went for $911. I was thinking of bidding $850 since that was what it would cost from the company anyway with the shipping. But as I monitored at the last 30 seconds it jumped right up beyond what I was willing to pay.

If B&H or Adorama gets some in in June for $799, I may quickly order one before my big cross country trip in July.
 

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There is a way to create 360 panorama images from the dji Mavic Pro camera using an auto pilot that takes control of your drone and shoots 42 photos in a controlled manner that can later be stitched to a 360° image in high resolution. The software is free and I have installed it from a mirror site download. I need to get the auto pilot control software next and test it out.

Good instructional on how it works here:
 

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Here's my retrofit of the Giroptic 360 camera piggyback on the dji Mavic Pro. The first test flight went amazingly well with a bit of wobbleness in strong gusty wind.


I was on 41% battery life but after 10 minutes of flight time, it dropped to 15%. So battery burn was better than I thought.
 

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Here's the 360 video of the test flight of the Giroptic360 is piggyback on the dji Mavic Pro.


This video will be up temporarily as it is just a test. Otherwise it is unlisted.
 

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Cool, Don. I couldn't get the quality up to more than about 240lines, though. Still it does the job. I was thinking it might be better strapped to the bottom. Of course, then you would have to hand launch probably.
You should be seeing it at 2160 in the YT player, but the window of view is 1/3 of that.

Actually, I thought the video quality looked really good here on my iphone. But in the goggles, as usual, not so much. On my computer monitor in the Power Director editor it looked impressive. I need to work on an image stabilizer software for the clip next. But the big question is now answered. The djiMavic Pro is one heck of a cargo plane! The Giroptic360 actually weighs about the same as the VUZE but the VUXE will have lower center of gravity so what that camera comes in I will be able to jump right in and test it out.

On mounting on the bottom: All the Drone "experts" told me to do it that way but they never tried it except on the bigger drones, like the inspire. The Mavic Pro has 4 sensors on the bottom that aid in navigation and drone stability. Two video cameras for ground image recognition, and sonar and radar sensor. If I put the camera on the bottom it would be better for center of gravity, but really bad for the entire electronics that operate the 4 props for stability and control because all 4 sensors would be blocked.

BTW- there are 2 forward facing sensors that detect collision but this model has none to the rear nor either side so that is the weakness of the Mavic Pro. You have to be very careful not to back up into trees. I did this the first day and lost my drone for 30 minutes. I had to use the ipad and walk around until I was almost on top of it and still didn't see it but I heard the cooling fans running. Looked up and 2 ft right in front of me it was stuck in some bamboo. Didn't break anything. So now I know to just spin the drone around and fly forward unless I can see the drone is in the clear from the ground while backing up.
 
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