[cubsh8r]

Will functionality, quality, or connnectivity be lost if I pass a new Samsung UN55C7000's hdmi through my Denon 2808 receiver. I'm kind of a rookie with hdmi requirements. I know the Denon upscales and passes true 1080p, but not sure if it will kill any of the new 3d signals or functionality?


I definitely don't want to upgrade a receiver and tweak all my connections around.


Thx

 

[davehancock]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsh8r /forum/post/18239745


Will functionality, quality, or connnectivity be lost if I pass a new Samsung UN55C7000's hdmi through my Denon 2808 receiver. I'm kind of a rookie with hdmi requirements. I know the Denon upscales and passes true 1080p, but not sure if it will kill any of the new 3d signals or functionality?


I definitely don't want to upgrade a receiver and tweak all my connections around.


Thx

It most likely will. If a receiver is doing any processing of video (other than just switching it and sending the selected video to the display) it won't know what to do with the 3D signal. I also know from experience that Denon receivers only pass digital level 16 to 234. No blacker than black (makes setting proper black level more difficult) and no whither than white (hard to find the optimum peak white + loss of highlight detail).

 

[cubsh8r]

Thanks Dave, is there a way to have the denon setup to switch Nd pass through without any processing?


How would I utilize hdmi for both video and sound? Would I have to run hdmi direct to tv and then audio out to the denon; or would I have to run hdmi from the ps3/sat receiver to the tv and optical sound out? Wouldn't I lose true HD decoding if hdmi 1.3 is not coming inti the denon?


I'm really struggling with connectivity options or workarounds in order to run hdmi staight to tv and still have premium sound going to the receiver?


It's been a while since I've thought through this stuff!


Thx

 

[Lee Stewart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsh8r /forum/post/18243923


Thanks Dave, is there a way to have the denon setup to switch Nd pass through without any processing?


How would I utilize hdmi for both video and sound? Would I have to run hdmi direct to tv and then audio out to the denon; or would I have to run hdmi from the ps3/sat receiver to the tv and optical sound out? Wouldn't I lose true HD decoding if hdmi 1.3 is not coming inti the denon?


I'm really struggling with connectivity options or workarounds in order to run hdmi staight to tv and still have premium sound going to the receiver?


It's been a while since I've thought through this stuff!


Thx

For 3D BD:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1231167

 

[davehancock]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsh8r /forum/post/18243923


Thanks Dave, is there a way to have the denon setup to switch Nd pass through without any processing?

I believe that some Denon models can be set this way (my comments on the Denon were based on experiences with some calibration customers) - but I am not sure. HOWEVER, even if you could set it not to process video that does not mean that it would pass the 3D video signals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsh8r /forum/post/18243923


How would I utilize hdmi for both video and sound? Would I have to run hdmi direct to tv and then audio out to the denon; or would I have to run hdmi from the ps3/sat receiver to the tv and optical sound out? Wouldn't I lose true HD decoding if hdmi 1.3 is not coming inti the denon?


I'm really struggling with connectivity options or workarounds in order to run hdmi staight to tv and still have premium sound going to the receiver?


It's been a while since I've thought through this stuff!


Thx

I understand your problem. Apparently you already have the Denon and a PS3, and are anticipating using that for 3D Blu-ray. One approach that may work (it has been the subject of much speculation) is to use a powered splitter ( such as this ) to feed the 3D video to the display and separately to the AVR. These powered splitters basically pass the EDID data (thats the information that tells the source what types of signal it can handle) from the display connected to the primary output back to the source and duplicates the primary output on the secondary output. As they are not actively processing the EDID data, it should pass the added 3D EDID data back without issue.


However, one potential "fly in the ointment" is what the display sends back for audio information, and how the source deals with it. There are likely to be variations on both ends (so what works with one particular pair of components may not work on another). Fortunately, the source of these splitters that I linked have a good return policy - so don't purchase one until you have all components in place (you don't want to let the 21 day return period to time out).

 

[Lee Stewart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock /forum/post/18244107


I understand your problem. Apparently you already have the Denon and a PS3, and are anticipating using that for 3D Blu-ray. One approach that may work (it has been the subject of much speculation) is to use a powered splitter ( such as this ) to feed the 3D video to the display and separately to the AVR. These powered splitters basically pass the EDID data (thats the information that tells the source what types of signal it can handle) from the display connected to the primary output back to the source and duplicates the primary output on the secondary output. As they are not actively processing the EDID data, it should pass the added 3D EDID data back without issue.


However, one potential "fly in the ointment" is what the display sends back for audio information, and how the source deals with it. There are likely to be variations on both ends (so what works with one particular pair of components may not work on another). Fortunately, the source of these splitters that I linked have a good return policy - so don't purchase one until you have all components in place (you don't want to let the 21 day return period to time out).

IF . . . .


A powered splitter preserves the signal intact meaning the EDID is intact in both signals and the PS3 3D FW UP adds new EDID which is used for 3D BD and it's 1920x2205 "block" frame to allow the new frame to leave the PS3 via it's HDMI output which is now "1.4" compliant as far as 3D BD is concerned. . .


That signal is now on it's way to the receiver which has a 1.3 HDMI chip in it - the HDMI Input. IF that 1.3 Input chip acts as a "gatekeeper" to complete the HDCP handshake necessary to allow the signal to continue on into the receiver to be processed, it won't recognize the signal. It isn't "hardware programed" to recognize a 1920x2205 signal that is meant for a 3DTV.

 

[davehancock]

Lee, A lot of your misunderstanding of HDMI is showing through here. But there is no point in arguing with you.


PERIOD

 

[Lee Stewart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock /forum/post/18244643


Lee, A lot of your misunderstanding of HDMI is showing through here. But there is no point in arguing with you.


PERIOD

If you believe I am wrong, then please correct me in a civil and respectful manner

Links are always helpful.

 

[texasaudioguy]

maybe this will shed some light on the 1.3 hdmi issue.

 

[texasaudioguy]

as far as the denon, there would have to be some type of update for it to pass the 3d information to the tv.

 

[Lee Stewart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by texasaudioguy /forum/post/18245341


as far as the denon, there would have to be some type of update for it to pass the 3d information to the tv.

Can older HDMI (v.1.0 - 1.3) devices be firmware-upgraded to take advantage of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4?

Quote:
Probably not. Most of the new features introduced in HDMI 1.4 will require a new HDMI chip to enable, and cannot be upgraded via firmware.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...1_4_faq.aspx#7

 

[cubsh8r]

OK so I'm still trying to figure out my plan B if Denon can't support video signal. Can I take the hdmi 1.3 from PS3/Sat receiver direct into 3D Sammy, and switch video on tv. Then somehow take the audio out to the Denon and still get True HD/dts hd audio?


I hate that I'm bypassing the whole purpose of video switching on the Denon, but as long as I can get the premium audio to it still I can deal.


Any advice? Thanks for all the help.

 

[davehancock]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsh8r /forum/post/18247061


OK so I'm still trying to figure out my plan B if Denon can't support video signal. Can I take the hdmi 1.3 from PS3/Sat receiver direct into 3D Sammy, and switch video on tv. Then somehow take the audio out to the Denon and still get True HD/dts hd audio?


I hate that I'm bypassing the whole purpose of video switching on the Denon, but as long as I can get the premium audio to it still I can deal.


Any advice? Thanks for all the help.

Despite the nay-sayers (a lot of people really don't know how HDMI works), the technique with the splitter may just work. Just don't buy the splitter till you have the PS3 upgrade and the 3D TV.


The problem is that the 3D stuff isn't here yet and manufacturers are talking about configurations that they know will work (Panasonic's 3D player, Sony's AVR receivers, etc.). That does not mean that other approaches might work.


Plan C would be to forgo the newest audio formats on 3D only. Several ways to do that (the simplest involves changing HDMI connectors).

 

[texasaudioguy]

there is some other information about the 1.3 that you might find helpfull

 

[texasaudioguy]

 http://dvice.com/archives/2009/12/no-new-blu-ray.php

 

[walford]

AFAIK the 3D blu-ray players will provide multiple output formats which will include the Full HD 3D(THD3D) format requiring HDMI 1.4 hardware chip support, 2D 1080p/24 format as recorded on current Blu-Ray disks using the 3D BR disk content for only one eye, and a 3D format which which will work over HDMI 1.3 such as the one currently used by the PS3 but which will not provide 1080p content for each eye.

 

[Lee Stewart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by texasaudioguy /forum/post/18248636

http://dvice.com/archives/2009/12/no-new-blu-ray.php

That article is . . . .

 

[davehancock]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18248706


That article is . . . .

Yet another random Internet posting. As you well know, you can find (and link) anything you want from the Internet.

 

[HokeySmoke]

Currently, HDMI 1.3 has twice the bandwidth required by Blu-ray. Therefore, 3D Blu-rays with their 2 views (one for each eye) will work with HDMI 1.3 provided the handshaking requirements (infoframe and EDID) are updated at both ends and the player can decode the two streams.


Most people don't know that Blu-ray does not support 1080p60. Therefore they assume that HDMI 1.3 would need to support 1080p120 for 3D Blu-rays. Blu-ray maxes out at 1080p24 and 1080i60.

 

[Lee Stewart]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HokeySmoke /forum/post/18249592


Currently, HDMI 1.3 has twice the bandwidth required by Blu-ray. Therefore, 3D Blu-rays with their 2 views (one for each eye) will work with HDMI 1.3 provided the handshaking requirements (infoframe and EDID) are updated at both ends and the player can decode the two streams.

And what is the possibility of this? See my post above #11