[JakobsenDK]

As the title of the thread might suggest, i need someone elses opinion on my current "battleplan" concerning my home theater experience.


Currently, i have a Panasonic 50PZ85E, Xbox 360, Wii, PS3, Onkyo 606 Receiver along with 4 "The Drop" speakers from Scandyna, and a center. I'm very happy with the speakers, as they are a great mixture of design and quality, so i'm keeping those. The Panasonic is an awesome tv, but it feels like it's getting smaller every time i turn it on, so a Projector seems like the right way to go.


Initially, i scrapped this idea, due to the fact that i wanted a future proof (ie. 3D applicable) 1080p projector, but these are way to expensive. So i pretty

much laid the idea to rest.


However, i stumbled upon the Acer H5360 and the Optoma HD66. The price point is awesome, and they seem to get great reviews despite not being Full HD (I know 1080 doesn't equal PQ). My budget is around 1.300 US Dollars.


So i'm basically looking for ideas, inputs and suggestions. Here's what it will be used with:


1. HTPC: Running XBMC, playing .MKV's backed up from BluRay disc's. Also, it most probably will be used for gaming, due to the 3D capabilities in each projector. My rig should be sufficient to run most games at highest quality. Nvidia's 3D Vision seems the way to go here. Usually we're watching HD tv shows, and Movies, so i really only care about HD content. Although sufficient quality for showing Soccer/football would be awesome.


2. Consoles: Can i use the Nvidia goggles with the consoles? From what i read, unconfirmed, you should be able to do that but you need to have it synced with your PC before switching to console. Also, how future proof is this solution? Ie. with the PS3 apparently getting 3D Playback.


This is what i'm going to use it for. But i have soo many questions:


1. With regards to the HTPC, what will happen with 2D movies - I read somewhere that it is possible to add depth to the picture, but not a real "3D" ?

2. What about the consoles? Can one add depth to Wii games? Will it function with the 3D of the PS3? The 360?

3. Can anyone compare the picture quality between the PJ's and my TV? Are they acutally good PJ's or are they more of a gimmick?


I'm hoping a cheap 720p 3D projector, will do a great job of being my first projector. Essentially, i plan on keeping it for a year or two, depends on the availability of 1080p 3D projectors. So will either one of the above projectors be able to work with my HTPC and consoles in a satisfying manner?


The Acer is the only one available in Denmark, and it have the official support of Nvidia 3D Vision, so i'm close to ordering that.. But a last minute googling saw a model called Optoma HD67 ..


So the question it all boils down to, is whether i should order the Acer or wait untill the other models become available?

 

[defiancecp]

On the HTPC, in my experience there are two concerns for a gaming system on 3d. 1 is performance. Keep in mind, 3d rendering renders each scene twice. So there's anywhere between a 40% to 60% hit to framerate as compared to normal rendering. Make sure your video card is powerful enough to handle that much of a drop and still be playable! As an example, I'm running a Radeon 4850 1gb (probably about comparable to a 9800GT, I think). With this config, I have to turn down the options a bit to run most games at 1280x800, but generally don't have major trouble. 2 is silence - I thought my gaming system was quiet until I moved it into my ht room, now I think it sounds like a wind tunnel!

I think I'm going to switch to passive liquid cooling soon, if I get confident enough in the configuration...


I don't see any way nvidia 3d goggles could work with a console. The computer generates the timing signal read by the goggles, and there's no way you could sync up the computer's display timing with the console's display timing.


If the computer is your primary goal, the Nvidia system might work. But if you want them both to work, a better option might be to use the IZ3D driver with some DLP-Link glasses. Since the projectors you mentioned both incorporate DLP-Link into the projectors, source material no longer needs compatibility with the glasses, just the display ........

BUT

Many people have pointed out that the PS3 firmware update is supposed to target HDMI 1.4 displays, and none of the projectors on the market today are actually HDMI 1.4 - so there's no way to know whether the ps3 will actually work with them or not - with ANY glasses.


So, if you're wanting a good 720p projector with good 3d compatibility with your computer, go for it! But if PS3 compatibility is a big deal, wait 'til this summer when the PS3 firmware is released and projector compatibility is tested. That way you know you're not stuck with a projector not compatible with it.

 

[Anthony1]

Hi, I'm in a similar boat as you, although I'd really like to hold out for a 1080p 3D projector. Unfortunately, I might have to wait a long time for a 1080p projector with 3D fits my budget concerns.


Anyways, I think it's an absolute mistake to buy any 3D projector that doesn't have a HDMI 1.4 connector. I know you mentioned watching mkv files via XBMC, but if you ever want to partake in the "official" 3D Blu Ray's, then you're going to need HDMI 1.4.


I don't think it will be possible to rip the 3D Blu Ray's into mkv, and they will work in "true" 3D. So basically, you would have to use an actual 3D Blu Ray player (none currently available), and you'd also have to use a 3D projector with a hdmi 1.4 input (none currently available).


Also, Sony is incredibly gung ho about the PS3 and 3D, but they have already gone on record to say that a hdmi 1.4 input will be an absolute requirement for their 3D solution. Buying any projector without hdmi 1.4 would likely be a very shortsighted endeavor. You might have to wait another 8 or 9 months for a 3D projector with hdmi 1.4 to get released, but in the long run, you'll be thanking yourself for waiting.

 

[JakobsenDK]

Thanks for the response guys!

defiancecp -> Im running two 8800 GTX cards, and if im looking for a 720p projector right now, they can manage the resolution - even with the frame-rate cut in half


With regards to Nvidia goggles, i found the information from this thread: http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...ead.id=4205751


I did look at the IZ3D glasses, but somehow i got the impression that it was a cheap knock-off compared to the Nvidia ones?


Anthony1 -> Yeah i know what you're saying, but from what i could gather the Acer already works with PS3 (check above link). I am well aware that it isn't a future proof projector, because it's not HDMI 1.4, but neither is my receiver which a spent a grand on a year ago. So this seems like the best solution for me right now, as i get a cheap cheap projector, with 3D capabilities which SHOULD work with the PS3 etc.


Hopefully this solution will last 1 - 1,5 years, and then i can upgrade to Full HD. The Acer can then be "donated" to my parents - that will make them happy ;-)


I guess the question is, whether to look at another 1.000 dollar projector which has better PQ, or is the Acer on par with the rest? I read somewhere that it has the same chipset as the Optoma HD66?

 

[defiancecp]

IZ3D has two products - a monitor and a driver. The monitor won't interest you given that its 22" and you're talking about gaming on a projector

The driver, though, is a much more versatile option than the Nvidia glasses, because it works with any cards (nvidia or ati), and works with quite a number of different configurations. I used it with a dual-projector setup for a long time, then I switched to a pro350w (very similar to the hd66) and switched the driver to dlp-mode.

It's by no means a cheap knockoff, though the company is much smaller so the marketing material is much less "commercial" looking. Comparing the two products:


-Nvidia's is dependent on syncronization from the PC, so should only function from the pc. Theoretically a USB connector could be made for PS3 or x-360, but as far as I'm aware that doesn't exist yet.


-Ignoring the monitor/glasses bundle, Iz3d's product is just the driver, so you have to get the glasses seperately.


-Driver compatibility with games is pretty similar. Both work (I define work as anywhere between "I can ignore the issues" and "perfect" with around 90-95% of directx games. Both of the companies have forums that you can go to and read user feedback to see which work better with which driver.


-Driver integration is better with Nvidia, since they are the driver manufacturer, where Iz3d layers theirs on top of the video driver. What this means is that cheat-detection applications like punkbuster can sometimes think iz3d is a cheater program. (having said that, ATI and Iz3d are working together for the next version of ati drivers, so that might change - but that doesn't matter to you since you've got SLI'd 8800s

)


-What will likely matter to you more is that SLI/Crossfire acceleration doesn't work consistently with iz3d right now. There is an update coming in the next week or two that "may" add support for multi-gpu configs, but right now only one core at a time can be used (some users have reported it actually does work if you use one output, which on these projectors you would, but the company line is that it doesn't)





Actually, now that I think about it, a better configuration for you might be hybrid - Use the nvidia driver, but instead of the nvidia glasses, use normal dlp-link glasses syncronized directly to the projector. That way you still work with consoles. The glasses are still not easy to come by, so I don't think anyone's ever tested that before, but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work, as long as nvidia's solution is strict about their frame sequence...


BUT there's still no guarantee that the console will work, so you're still probably better off waiting for a little bit until the ps3 software update is done.


Sorry to ramble on so much, I LOVE thinking about this stuff

 

[JakobsenDK]

Haha defiancecp, the only reason why i haven't ordered the damn thing, is that i wanted more information on the whole situation


Loads of great information there, but due to the fact that only the Nvidia 3D glasses are available in Denmark, i think i'm going to order those along with the Acer H5360. In Denmark, every time you order something over the internet, you have 14 days to return it for free.


So i might as well purchase it, try it out and then return it if it doesn't work This will allow me to research a bit for the others.


But how is the Acer as a strict 2D projector? Or the Optoma HD66? From what i know, it's the same chipset in them.


Also, another thing that appeals me with the Nvidia glasses is that they are indeed a larger company, so hopefully they should have better support with regards to games/updates. The projector is also certified to work with Nvidia.

 

[TrickMcKaha]



Quote:
Originally Posted by defiancecp /forum/post/18188276


...

Actually, now that I think about it, a better configuration for you might be hybrid - Use the nvidia driver, but instead of the nvidia glasses, use normal dlp-link glasses syncronized directly to the projector. That way you still work with consoles. The glasses are still not easy to come by, so I don't think anyone's ever tested that before, but I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work, as long as nvidia's solution is strict about their frame sequence...


BUT there's still no guarantee that the console will work, so you're still probably better off waiting for a little bit until the ps3 software update is done.

...

Yep. I also agree with this. But, DLink glasses are hard to get now, so we are right back to waiting.


I'll practically guarantee anyone that the HD66 with Dlink glasses & the Nvidia drivers will give great 3D gaming from a PC right now. Probably it will also work in 720p 3D with the PS3, but nobody is so sure. (Yes, a Sony guy and an HDMI guy said PS3 3D will use HDMI 1.4 specs, but we are not so sure what all that means, exactly, at the TV end of the chain, because HDMI 1.4 includes all kinds of backward compatibility.)


There is some possibility that the PS3 will only give 3D in 24p, but I suppose there might be an option on the PS3 to choose between 24p and 120 Hz output, much as there is currently the choice to output either 24p or 60 Hz, buried down in the PS3 setup menu. If the PS3 outputs 3D at 120Hz, the HD66 will know what to do with it & the Dlink glasses will be what you need.


Also, maybe Optoma can make the HD66 know what to do with 3D sent at 24p, but they give no assurance now that their projector works 3D with anything but field sequential 120 Hz.


I hate the waiting, but waiting just a few more months will give these answers.

 

[fernanz73]

I hate to rain on anybodys parade but the xbox and the ps3 in it's current state will not work in 3d mode with the Optoma Hd66 and Xpand x102 glasses. I have both and am currently deciding to return one or both of them.

 

[defiancecp]

In its "current" state, no 3d option will work. If you're talking about once the update is released, there's no way to know until it happens (probably june last I heard). It's likely that neither will be compatible, but not certain by any means. Which was mentioned several times already in this thread. So you're not really "raining on our parade" by repeating something that's been a repeated theme of the thread.

 

[fernanz73]

Sorry Defiance...I know that reading an extra paragraph which clarifies a point which takes 20 pages on this whole website to find the answer to is a pain for you but after scrubbing through page after page to find none of the answers in a simple concise posting I thought I would do a kindness for the next guy. Screw me for trying to pay it forward with my own hands on experiences. I should have clarified that I'm trying to play Invincible Tiger and/or Avatar in 3d on the consoles, neither of which work in 3d right now though many others have said they have luck with other dlp products and the x102s and I had every reason to expect that they would work given the info I had at the time. I am returning the HD66 for the Acer H5360 which has been confirmed today to work in it's current state with console 3d games andthe X102s and is fully supported by Nvidia as well. Losing a bit of contrast ratio is worth it in my opinion.

 

[defiancecp]

And generally the best way to make a point is to oversimplify, ignore important facts, and spit insults?


-Those two games have no bearing on eventual support for PS3 3d, since they're both cobbled together 3d solutions by the game developers.

-PS3 compatibility is not likely with EITHER of the projectors you mention, but is still very possible. Unless you're a pretty high-up in the Sony organization, you don't know any better than anyone else on this board until the firmware is released (June, probably).

-Nvidia works fine with the hd66, they just haven't added the projector to their driver's filter because nvidia decided they wanted compatibility royalties.

 

[fernanz73]

How in the world did I insult YOU?? I merely am posting for people like me who are trying to play current games on ps3 in 3d. I have no misgivings that 3dbr will work with my setup...if it does, great. I assume that ps3;games will work after the update and if not, ill deal at that time. I always do.