3D Receivers/HDMI 1.4?
-
Now Available: Tech Talk Podcast with Scott Wilkinson, Episode 19 Click here for details.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Joined
·
5,454 Posts
3D does nothing for the receiver. The receiver just needs to be able to pass the 3D video on to the TV without degrading it.
Display: TCL 65R617, AVR: Denon X2300W, Source: PS5, Fronts: Infinity Primus 362
Joined
·
4,670 Posts
HDMI 1.4 adds not only the bandwidth for proper 3D playback, but Ethernet channel and Audio Return Channel (which means that audio can go both ways instead of just one way. You can plug an HDMI 1.4 cable between your receiver and TV and use the HDMI inputs in your receiver to send audio to your TV or plug HDMI devices directly into your TV and send audio to your receiver via a single connection. In essence this doubles the number of connections you have since you can now use the HDMI inputs on your receiver AND the inputs on your TV and have everything work the same)
HDMI 1.4 adds not only the bandwidth for proper 3D playback, but Ethernet channel and Audio Return Channel (which means that audio can go both ways instead of just one way. You can plug an HDMI 1.4 cable between your receiver and TV and use the HDMI inputs in your receiver to send audio to your TV or plug HDMI devices directly into your TV and send audio to your receiver via a single connection. In essence this doubles the number of connections you have since you can now use the HDMI inputs on your receiver AND the inputs on your TV and have everything work the same)
Are you saying that I can use HDMI to send the audio to a downstream receiver utilizing ARC? To be clear, the receiver never sees the HDMI video input. This is interesting (if my TV supports ARC) as this will allow me to use the most modern uncompressed codecs which otherwise would not be supported by the usual optical cable connection.
"Downstream" is a term I use to refer to a receiver that accepts the audio output from the TV audio output, as opposed to from the video sources.
DelJ
"Downstream" is a term I use to refer to a receiver that accepts the audio output from the TV audio output, as opposed to from the video sources.
DelJ
Joined
·
93,433 Posts
To be clear ... the HDMI 1.3 cables that have been around for several years can also be used with HDMI 1.4 devices as it's the device itself that is HDMI 1.4 compliant, not the cable. The only new cable needed for HDMI 1.4 devices is the one with ethernet capability, and AFAIK, to date there are no AVRs on the market that have implemented ethernet over HDMI.
The ARC feature simply replaces the need for an optical cable connection from the TV to the AVR as it only supports the same audio supported by an optical cable.
To be clear ... the HDMI 1.3 cables that have been around for several years can also be used with HDMI 1.4 devices as it's the device itself that is HDMI 1.4 compliant, not the cable. The only new cable needed for HDMI 1.4 devices is the one with ethernet capability, and AFAIK, to date there are no AVRs on the market that have implemented ethernet over HDMI.
The ARC feature simply replaces the need for an optical cable connection from the TV to the AVR as it only supports the same audio supported by an optical cable.
I recently chose the Yamaha RX-V667 (over the prior year RX-V765) because the x67 series has HDMI 1.4 . . . not because I wanted 3D processing, but because [current!] HDMI 1.4 [supposedly!] supports playback/switching for HDTV2 (3840x2160) [ like this Samsung 70" prototype ], however only at 30p (and not 60p!) Switching between 'dual HDMI out' equipped players and/or internet connected devices in order to playback 3840x2160 source material will likely become tedious/complicated after one has more than (say) two HDTV2 resolution sources, and so I opted early for an all-in-one switching solution!
![]()
I recently chose the Yamaha RX-V667 (over the prior year RX-V765) because the x67 series has HDMI 1.4 . . . not because I wanted 3D processing, but because [current!] HDMI 1.4 [supposedly!] supports playback/switching for HDTV2 (3840x2160) [ like this Samsung 70" prototype ], however only at 30p (and not 60p!) Switching between 'dual HDMI out' equipped players and/or internet connected devices in order to playback 3840x2160 source material will likely become tedious/complicated after one has more than (say) two HDTV2 resolution sources, and so I opted early for an all-in-one switching solution!
I just ordered a Samsung plasma 3D-HDTV which supports ARC, and a Samsung 3D-BR Player which only has a single HDMI output. I'm integrating the TV/Player with a Denon 4306, which is HDMI 1.1. Would it be possible to connect the BR Player directly to the TV, and use the ARC HDMI out from the TV as an HDMI input to the receiver for the High Res audio?
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
Clarification - HDMI 1.4 did not require an increase in the max bandwidth HDMI already allowed for as memory serves. I was confused by this before as 1080p 3D would seem to have required more bandwidth. But it's max bandwidth is 10.2 Gb/s just like HDMI 1.3. Which is why HDMI 1.3 high speed cables will work for all applications (except ethernet) as mentioned above.
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
Interesting question. In the past, hooking HDMI to a TV and trying to send back audio did not work well, but that was with optical.
Not sure how ARC is going to work. I will be interested to hear if anyone has tried this.
Interesting question. In the past, hooking HDMI to a TV and trying to send back audio did not work well, but that was with optical.
Not sure how ARC is going to work. I will be interested to hear if anyone has tried this.
Joined
·
93,433 Posts
Sorry, but no. ARC will only work when both the TV and the AVR are HDMI 1.4 certified and both support the ARC feature (as not all HDMI 1.4 AVRs support ARC). Not to mention that ARC only supports the same audio that optical/digital coax can pass ... essentially simply replacing the requirement of running an optical from the TV back to the AVR.
Sorry, but no. ARC will only work when both the TV and the AVR are HDMI 1.4 certified and both support the ARC feature (as not all HDMI 1.4 AVRs support ARC). Not to mention that ARC only supports the same audio that optical/digital coax can pass ... essentially simply replacing the requirement of running an optical from the TV back to the AVR.
Thanks for the info.
Follow up question if you can help or make a recommendation. As an alternative to using the ARC channel, could I use a passive splitter or switch on the output of the player, one output of the switch to the TV, the other to the receiver, I also connect the fiber output of the BR player to the receiver. When I want 3D, I set the TV to use the switch/splitter output, and use the receiver to playback audio via the fiber. When I'm watching 2D, (95% of the time), I set the receiver to use the ouput of switch/splitter, and route the video to the TV via HDMI through the receiver and then will also have lossless HD playback.
Thanks for the info.
Follow up question if you can help or make a recommendation. As an alternative to using the ARC channel, could I use a passive splitter or switch on the output of the player, one output of the switch to the TV, the other to the receiver, I also connect the fiber output of the BR player to the receiver. When I want 3D, I set the TV to use the switch/splitter output, and use the receiver to playback audio via the fiber. When I'm watching 2D, (95% of the time), I set the receiver to use the ouput of switch/splitter, and route the video to the TV via HDMI through the receiver and then will also have lossless HD playback.
Joined
·
93,433 Posts
I did see that thread, I think I'm using a slightly different approach, use a passive switch/splitter to direct 3D directly to the TV and use the fiber output from the Player to the Receiver for lossy audio, for non-3D material, I'll use the other output of the switch to direct the non-3D signal to the receiver for lossless audio and routing video to the TV. Looks like the big question is whether or not a passive switch/splitter will transmit a HDMI 1.4 signal without issue, I guess I'll give it a try if no one has proven/disproven it by the time by setup is together (post XMAS).
Joined
·
93,433 Posts
The answer is likely no (although is going to depend on the switch being used) .... with one cable connected to the HDMI 1.4 TV and one connected to the HDMI 1.3 AVR, the switch defaults to the HDMI 1.3 EDID and will not pass 3D video.
Quote:
I assumed (there's that word), that when outputting 3D directly to the TV, and if the AVR's HDMI input connected to the switch/splitter is not selected (and therefore not active?) that the BR player would only "see" the TV as an HDMI 1.4 device and the AVR would not enter into the equation as long as the AVR's input is not selected. From reading the other thread, I thought the user's ran into problems when they tried to simultaneously output to the TV and the AVR via HDMI from the BR player.
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie  The answer is likely no (although is going to depend on the switch being used) .... with one cable connected to the HDMI 1.4 TV and one connected to the HDMI 1.3 AVR, the switch defaults to the HDMI 1.3 EDID and will not pass 3D video. |
Joined
·
93,433 Posts
I believe therein lies the rub (as they say) .... the AVR's EDID is likely to be checked by the switch regardless. Please report back though as to your results. Thanks.
Quote:
Thanks for all the info and feedback. I'm going to try out using a passive switch (with the thought that the BR player will not see the AVR unless the switch is selected specifically for connectivity to the AVR) with the setup we've been discussing and will post my results. As the new 3D setup is technically a XMAS present, will not have anything to post till sometime after the holidays.
| Originally Posted by jdsmoothie I believe therein lies the rub (as they say) .... the AVR's EDID is likely to be checked by the switch regardless. Please report back though as to your results. Thanks. |
Joined
·
1,124 Posts
Some food for tought here:
as we all know, the newest HDMI v.1.4 brought us some nice new features, such as 3D / ARC / ETHERNET, so in order to take advantage out of these features, you must have the v1.4 chipset on all sources, such as your TV, AVR, BDP and so on.
As for the HDMI cables, AFIK, you'll be just fine to x-mit 3D signals thru any good High Speed cable, also known as Cat. II (with a 10,2 Gbps bandwidth), EXCEPT for ARC and ETHERNET functions, though.
And now comes the most important part, though, as I heard quite recently from a tech. guy in Miami area that with some High Speed cable brands
( former 1.3b version ), you DO have the ARC function active whereas in others you DON'T. Reason seems to be due to the internals having different pinout connections though. I've also heard that the newest HDMI cables in compliance with ARC / ETHERNET functions have an extra pair of twisted wire inside. Not sure either, but the guy said he ripped-off 2 different cables (same cat./different brands) and found the extra pair in one cable only... go figure!
Furthermore, there’s another talk in here that if you have a former High Speed cable (v1.3b), you’ll only get 3D signals in 1080i resolution though... Didn’t find anything conclusive on this either.
Bottom line, IMHO: in case you do need all these new features later down the line, you’ll be better off grabbing the latest HDMI cable version and you'll be golden!
as we all know, the newest HDMI v.1.4 brought us some nice new features, such as 3D / ARC / ETHERNET, so in order to take advantage out of these features, you must have the v1.4 chipset on all sources, such as your TV, AVR, BDP and so on.
As for the HDMI cables, AFIK, you'll be just fine to x-mit 3D signals thru any good High Speed cable, also known as Cat. II (with a 10,2 Gbps bandwidth), EXCEPT for ARC and ETHERNET functions, though.
And now comes the most important part, though, as I heard quite recently from a tech. guy in Miami area that with some High Speed cable brands
( former 1.3b version ), you DO have the ARC function active whereas in others you DON'T. Reason seems to be due to the internals having different pinout connections though. I've also heard that the newest HDMI cables in compliance with ARC / ETHERNET functions have an extra pair of twisted wire inside. Not sure either, but the guy said he ripped-off 2 different cables (same cat./different brands) and found the extra pair in one cable only... go figure!
Furthermore, there’s another talk in here that if you have a former High Speed cable (v1.3b), you’ll only get 3D signals in 1080i resolution though... Didn’t find anything conclusive on this either.
Bottom line, IMHO: in case you do need all these new features later down the line, you’ll be better off grabbing the latest HDMI cable version and you'll be golden!
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
