[SlowcarIX]

i like my dipole emerald physics c2 a lot and wondering if i can diy something better myself.


this is what i am thinking...4 x 15" ae woofers with an array of ribbon tweeters the entire height of the speaker.


tweeters: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=276-420

woofers: ae td15h/m/s/x...which one should i use?

xover: dcx2496

amps: 2 b&o icepower 1000asp, 1 for the 4 15s and 1 for the array of tweeters


good diy project?

 

[2100]

Where's Thylantyr? As much as some of you don't like him, he does give some thought provoking inputs/options that we can use with such configs....

Array of the G1....boy are you loaded man.

Are you going to build the cabs yourself? If you can't or aren't so good with this, ask John J to do up an active version of the AE drivers + RAAL 140-15d (you could use your amps...whatever). Do a search, he sketched up something in this forum. I think he pairs up with Mark or something....


What is it that you do not like with the CS2? It is a well executed design, and works well within the confines of the low-cost drivers.


If you are not good with this and have no time to tweak and measure, all you are gonna end up with is a load of expensive drivers delivering average sound at the very best.


You should have just ordered the Terraform XL instead of the ULS-15, and now you get discounts for a pair of Catalysts. LOL!

Joking bro....


PS. Interesting driver, do a google.
http://www.stageaccompany.com/en/products/ribboncd.php


Used here : http://www.griffinaudiousa.com/pdf/g..._pricelist.pdf

 

[2100]

Also, what are your goals for the new speaker? Pure SPL, or more dynamics, more refinement, more audiophile qualities so that you can enjoy girl-with-guitar songs etc?

How uber are you willing to go with whatever budget you may have? Note that you have already changed 3 speakers in the last 12 months. (manufacturers love you esp in times like this!)

 

[mayhem13]

i wouldn't want to push that ribbon so low to cross. 4 12" woofers from AE or similiar would allow for a higher XO, and you've already got 80hz and lower covered with the 4 ULS so i don't see the need for the fifteens really. Do you have any measurments of the AC tweeter to post, like distortion and freq response? I wonder what they look like at 1.5khz. I don't think you'll be able to use that ribbon below 2khz. Some of the BG drivers would be a better and more economical choice.

 

[klankymen]

wait a sec, how are you gonna make 15s go up to 1kHz? Or am I missing something?

 

[2100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by klankymen /forum/post/15505591


wait a sec, how are you gonna make 15s go up to 1kHz? Or am I missing something?

The AE TD15Ms go up to 4k naturally flat with no real resonances (unlike the Eminence 15s, all of them have big bumps up there). I EQed my TD15M apollos and they do even 10k response, I could hear the sibilances on female vocals! The TD15M-A has similar inductance to even "audiophile" Scanspeak midrange drivers. 2k would be a piece of cake, lots of room/flexbility for mucking around with whatever audiophile dome, pro compression driver, ribbon you'd care to mate it with. Only issue would be narrowing dispersion as you go up.


I don't know, but they are saying that the 15" sounds better than the 12" which is better than 10", against common sense yes...but that's what they say.


My Beyma 10" could barely go past 4-5k even after EQ, and sounds pretty nasty doing so after EQ.

No amount of EQ would make stuff like female sibilance come out.

 

[2100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 /forum/post/15505421


Do you have any measurments of the AC tweeter to post, like distortion and freq response? I wonder what they look like at 1.5khz.

This is the most commonly quoted source. There are some debates but.....at least there's measurement info. Not G1 but G3si.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

 

[SlowcarIX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15505273


Where's Thylantyr? As much as some of you don't like him, he does give some thought provoking inputs/options that we can use with such configs....

Array of the G1....boy are you loaded man.

Are you going to build the cabs yourself? If you can't or aren't so good with this, ask John J to do up an active version of the AE drivers + RAAL 140-15d (you could use your amps...whatever). Do a search, he sketched up something in this forum. I think he pairs up with Mark or something....


What is it that you do not like with the CS2? It is a well executed design, and works well within the confines of the low-cost drivers.


If you are not good with this and have no time to tweak and measure, all you are gonna end up with is a load of expensive drivers delivering average sound at the very best.


You should have just ordered the Terraform XL instead of the ULS-15, and now you get discounts for a pair of Catalysts. LOL!

Joking bro....


PS. Interesting driver, do a google.
http://www.stageaccompany.com/en/products/ribboncd.php


Used here : http://www.griffinaudiousa.com/pdf/g..._pricelist.pdf

lets hope he sees this and give some comments

besides the Aurum Cantus G1 and the stageaccompany SA 8535 Ribbon Compact Driver, the alcons rbn1801 and the BG rd75 are some others i'm looking at...

i like the cs2 a lot but its not big enough....i like big mains, something like this

no cabinets for me...just speakers mounted on a board with back exposed...like this...

i'm happy with the uls15...been thinking of IB but there is noway i can stop the sound from the back of the driver going over to my neighbors house when i put them in the ceiling...

 

[SlowcarIX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2100 /forum/post/15505300


Also, what are your goals for the new speaker? Pure SPL, or more dynamics, more refinement, more audiophile qualities so that you can enjoy girl-with-guitar songs etc?

How uber are you willing to go with whatever budget you may have? Note that you have already changed 3 speakers in the last 12 months. (manufacturers love you esp in times like this!)

hmm...all the above plus the boxless sound of a dipole.


rough estimate for the cost, most of which is in the AC G1...


height of 4 15s is ~60" and the tweeters are about 7.5" each...will take ~10 to go from top to bottom...


8 x 15" = 2k

20 G1s = 8k

4 x icepower 1000asp module = 1.8k

dcx2496 = 300

wood, wire and hardware = 1k...


~12k...

 

[SlowcarIX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem13 /forum/post/15505421


i wouldn't want to push that ribbon so low to cross. 4 12" woofers from AE or similiar would allow for a higher XO, and you've already got 80hz and lower covered with the 4 ULS so i don't see the need for the fifteens really. Do you have any measurments of the AC tweeter to post, like distortion and freq response? I wonder what they look like at 1.5khz. I don't think you'll be able to use that ribbon below 2khz. Some of the BG drivers would be a better and more economical choice.

the mains going from 50Hz up...they are full range 20 to 20khz. i just picked 50hz for the xover.....

 

[SlowcarIX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by klankymen /forum/post/15505591


wait a sec, how are you gonna make 15s go up to 1kHz? Or am I missing something?

this is just 1 example....

http://www.emeraldphysics.com/specs.htm

 

[thylantyr]

*The RBN's aren't for sale solo unless they changed their policy recently -- or just buy their completed system --


*The BG RD are turd.


*The AC G1 is a great candidate, you can also consider

Fountek NeoPro5i.


*A big project like this would be great if you added

midrange drivers, I have some ideas, pm.


*If you added some midranges, I'd use TD15H woofers

not TD15M versions because a project like this should be

all active with a big amplifiers anyways, get more xmax not sensitivity for

the woofers.


*I'd make it four line array towers, one for TM and one

for the woofer array per channel. The towers will be heavy, you might want to look at the Dali Megaline design to see how

they solved the weight problem.

*An array of used PLX3402 amplifiers for ultimate win. Gotta love the

~5kw bridged burst test @ 20khz.

 

[gpmbc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowcarIX /forum/post/15505069


i like my dipole emerald physics c2 a lot and wondering if i can diy something better myself.


this is what i am thinking...4 x 15" ae woofers with an array of ribbon tweeters the entire height of the speaker.


tweeters: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=276-420

woofers: ae td15h/m/s/x...which one should i use?

xover: dcx2496

amps: 2 b&o icepower 1000asp, 1 for the 4 15s and 1 for the array of tweeters


good diy project?

Line arrays have a very unique sound quality in terms of the wall of sound and in being very effortless in presentation. It's something I wanna revisit for a 2 channnel system. It is a bit of a challenge trying to integrate 6 foot plus speakers that definitely need some room to breathe in combination with a projector screen and a potential center unless going phantom. With that said if you can integrate it and create a synergy amongst the selected drivers, I doubt you will be disappointed.

 

[SlowcarIX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr /forum/post/15507345


*The RBN's aren't for sale solo unless they changed their policy recently -- or just buy their completed system --


*The BG RD are turd.


*The AC G1 is a great candidate, you can also consider

Fountek NeoPro5i.


*A big project like this would be great if you added

midrange drivers, I have some ideas, pm.


*If you added some midranges, I'd use TD15H woofers

not TD15M versions because a project like this should be

all active with a big amplifiers anyways, get more xmax not sensitivity for

the woofers.


*I'd make it four line array towers, one for TM and one

for the woofer array per channel. The towers will be heavy, you might want to look at the Dali Megaline design to see how

they solved the weight problem.

*An array of used PLX3402 amplifiers for ultimate win. Gotta love the

~5kw bridged burst test @ 20khz.

hi, thanks for the advice!


i will read up on the founteks.


i think i like to stick to a 2way dipole system....more drivers will drive cost up and my present 2way 15"/1" tweeter sounds great for me.


what is the difference in the TD15 H-M-S-X drivers? for 2way, what is the optimum one?


i like to keep it to 2 panels...

damn...the megas are tall! I like to keep the mine 5 feet tall or so.....


thanks!

 

[Scott Simonian]

I like this thread already!

From my AEspeakers forum lurking, looks like the Lambda Dipole15 driver is what you are looking for. There are a couple of threads on there that mention building something just like the Emerald's you have. Heheh, I know cause after I saw yours I went on there looking for a project to copy them.

Here's the description of the Dipole15...

The Lambda Dipole15 Driver is designed specifically for open baffle use with added EQ. This is a high xmax, stiff paper cone, coated and sealed foam surround, 12 spoke aluminum basket, 60oz magnet, dual gold binding posts, and military spec coatings and glues. This a massive *underhung* driver with clean high excursion response to 2Khz. Due to the underhung motor design the power handling is much lower than our other drivers, however these drivers were designed to be used in multiples per channel of 2~8 drivers, hence the power handling is right where it is needed. This driver has some of the best midrange performance of any Lambda product, and there is some interest in using it as a powerful bassmid in a large sealed cabinet, call for more details. Available in dual 8ohm coils only, specs are with both voice coils wired in series.

http://web.archive.org/web/200403072.../DIPOLE15.html


They are priced the same as all the other 15's AEspeakers sell but there is no option for an Apollo upgrade, iirc. I don't think it would need it anyway since the Le is so low and the power levels shouldn't be too high.


Personally, I would like to build something with two of those and a B&C DE250 per channel.


I can't find the thread where there was a description of the differences about the M,S,H,X series but let's see if I can regurgitate the info...


The 'M' has a shorter coil, an accordion surround and is meant to be used as a midrange

The 'S' has parameters that are well suited for sealed boxes

The 'H' has parameters that make it well suited for woofer use

The 'X' has parameters that are good for a dedicated 'midbass'


...which I never got since the 'H' is good as a "woofer". Hmmm. That's what I remember anyway.


Aaaahhhhh, you must build this thing!

 

[Looneybomber]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowcarIX /forum/post/15508162


i think i like to stick to a 2way dipole system....more drivers will drive cost up and my present 2way 15"/1" tweeter sounds great for me.

To save on costs, you can skimp a little on the height of the tweeter array. The distance from the speaker where nearfield becomes farfield decreases as the frequency goes lower if the array height remains the same. That being said, to use the bare minimum amount of drivers to keep the listening position in nearfield, you'd still need a tall midrange array, but your tweeter array could be shrunk down, maybe as short as 4ft.


If listening purely on axis, beaming is not an issue and you can get away with 15" drivers playing up to 1khz...if they can do it. So far, I've not been impressed enough by my TD15H's (the one's spec'd to be used as a woofer) to play up to 1khz and will be crossing mine over between 4-500hz. Maybe the Apollo upgrade will help in that dept.


If you don't primarily listen on axis (in the sweet spot), I vote for what Thy recommend with a ribbon, midrange, and woofer array. Besides, center to center spacing of 15" woofers indicates a max lowpass XO frequency of around 800hz...Some ribbons can go that low, but distortion plots begin to look ugly.

 

[SlowcarIX]

change of plans....how about this config:


W

W

M

T

M

W

W


W = Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/295-468s.pdf


M = SEAS Excel W15CH001 (E0037) 5.5" magnesium Cone Woofer
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/seas/E0037.pdf


T = RAAL 140-15D Ribbon Tweeter
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/raal_140-15d.pdf


W = 151.90 X 8 = 1215.20

M = 218.65 X 4 = 874.6

T = 558.00 X 2 = 1116.00

Amps = 6 x B&O 1000ASP = 2700.00

xover = dcx2496 = 300.00

wood, wire, hardware = 1000.00


will this be better sounding than the 4 x 15 + line array ribbon tweeters?

 

[Looneybomber]

They should be some pretty awesome speakers.


If it were me, I'd use different mids, something in the 6.5-7" area since the CTC spacing will dictate a kind'a low XO point to the tweeter and also because an 85db sensitivity is pretty low in my book. Lastly, you may think of a 3.5way design due to how far apart the outer woofers are? Lots of options, just have fun with it.

 

[SlowcarIX]

w


wm

--t

wm


w


how about arranging the mtm to one side?


also how to connect the 2 midranges? series gives 11ohms, parallel gives real low ohms...

 

[SlowcarIX]

or this?


-W

-W

-M

MTM

-M

-W

-W