AVS Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know similar questions have been asked but I didn't find one that mathced my questions.


I'm trying to decide between the Panasonic G10 or V10 in 42 inch and need some advice.

I'm in Europe (Sweden) so we have 42 inch V10's here. Price difference here is about $830. Is the V10 worth it?

The main differences seem to be THX mode (no THX mode on G10 in europe), Deep color, 24p smooth film, DLNA support and nicer design.

The european G10 has 96Hz playback of 1080/24p content, so that is not an issue.

My thinking is this:

Design: Worth some but not very much.

DLNA: Crappy support anyway so I can get a separate player (like a popcorn hour or something) for much less than the price difference.

24p smooth film: Disliked by some. Liked by others...

Deep color: Can be useful since my receiver that is going to do some analog->digital video conversion seems to support it.

THX mode: Unsure of the advantage to me. Much less than optimal lighting conditions anyway.


I can't fit anything larger than 42" so please, no advice on going for a bigger G10 instead or something like that.


Advice anyone?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,403 Posts
The main advantage of THX mode is that if you simply want a plug and play display (ie, you don't want to calibrate it or even adjust the settings from factory settings), then THX mode will provide the best PQ. On the other hand, if you are into adjustments (either professionally or at least with a calibration DVD such as AVIA or DVE), then you can achieve excellent PQ with the G10.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP /forum/post/16850205


The main advantage of THX mode is that if you simply want a plug and play display (ie, you don't want to calibrate it or even adjust the settings from factory settings), then THX mode will provide the best PQ. On the other hand, if you are into adjustments (either professionally or at least with a calibration DVD such as AVIA or DVE), then you can achieve excellent PQ with the G10.

So the G10 will give me the same or almost the same PQ as the V10 with some adjustments?

What about deep color? Is it useful for anything or just a marketing thing?
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
18,331 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by matbl /forum/post/16850281


So the G10 will give me the same or almost the same PQ as the V10 with some adjustments? What about deep color? Is it useful for anything or just a marketing thing?

AFAIK there are virtually no deep color sources (i think its only on one or two particular HD video cameras).


Since the European G10/V10 models are so different than the US models i don't know if your V10 has the extra picture adjustments like our V10 does, but even over here i don't think a V10 is worth $830 more than a G10, especially in a small size like that. My G10 looks fantastic and i don't feel the need for any better picture quality than i'm already getting, and the V10 is only a little better. If it were only $100-$200 more i think it would be worth it, but not $830. Unless of course you don't mind blowing that much extra money



PS: Since you're in Sweden, you should probably add your location to your Avatar to avoid future confusion since the Euro models are very different than the US models we discuss here. Also, there is a good UK based Plasma forum that covers the Euro models:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/16850363


AFAIK there are virtually no deep color sources (i think its only on one or two particular HD video cameras).


Since the European G10/V10 models are so different than the US models i don't know if your V10 has the extra picture adjustments like our V10 does, but even over here i don't think a V10 is worth $830 more than a G10, especially in a small size like that. My G10 looks fantastic and i don't feel the need for any better picture quality than i'm already getting, and the V10 is only a little better. If it were only $100-$200 more i think it would be worth it, but not $830. Unless of course you don't mind blowing that much extra money

I do mind blowing that much money if I don't get alot of features for it that are actually usefull. Therefore I asked the question in the first place.



What extra picture adjustments are you refering to? Just so I can check if its the same here.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
18,331 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by matbl /forum/post/16850561


I do mind blowing that much money if I don't get alot of features for it that are actually usefull. Therefore I asked the question in the first place.



What extra picture adjustments are you refering to? Just so I can check if its the same here.

On the U.S. V10 series, buried in the Advance Picture sub-menu there is an additional setting called "Pro Setting" that becomes available when the TV is in Custom mode that brings up the following list of additional detailed picture settings that the G10 does not have:

Reset to defaults: Resets all Pro setting adjustments to factory default settings.

W/B high R: Adjusts the white balance for light red areas.

W/B high B: Adjusts the white balance for light blue areas.

W/B low R: Adjusts the white balance for dark red areas.

W/B low B: Adjusts the white balance for dark blue areas.

Black extension: Adjusts the dark shades of the image in gradation.

Gamma adjustment: Gamma correction. Adjusts the intermediate brightness of the image. (Normal/Mid/Full 1/Full 2)

Panel brightness: Selects the display panel brightness.

(High: Vivid, Mid: Standard, Low: Studio ref)

Contour emphasis: Adjusts the contour emphasis of the image. (On/Off)

AGC: Increases the brightness of dark signal automatically. (On/Off)

Save as default: Save all “picture” (when “Picture mode” is “Custom”) and “Pro setting” adjustments.



If you can download the Owners Manuals for the Swedish versions of the G10 and V10, check them to see if the V10 has this additional setting or not. It's easy to miss when comparing the sub-menus on our models so look carefully.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/16850630


On the U.S. V10 series, buried in the Advance Picture sub-menu there is an additional setting called "Pro Setting" that becomes available when the TV is in Custom mode that brings up the following list of additional detailed picture settings that the G10 does not have:

The european G10 and V10 has the same picture settings available except for "digital cinema color".

They both have W/B high and low for R and B and Gamma settings but none of the others unless its hidden under a different name in the standard picture menu...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by matbl /forum/post/16849914


24p smooth film: Disliked by some. Liked by others...

I'm not sure exactly what the 24p options are on the European versions of these sets, but on the U.S. versions the difference is that a 96Hz setting is available on the V10 but not the G10; the G10 only has 48Hz for true 24p playback, and the refresh rate is slow enough that most people are bothered by seeing a flickering effect with this engaged. The flicker is almost completely eliminated with the 96Hz setting on the V10.


As for 24p itself, not sure why some wouldn't like it unless they are bothered by watching films in theaters and dislike the occasional judder that is inherent in 24fps material.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16857292


I'm not sure exactly what the 24p options are on the European versions of these sets, but on the U.S. versions the difference is that a 96Hz setting is available on the V10 but not the G10; the G10 only has 48Hz for true 24p playback, and the refresh rate is slow enough that most people are bothered by seeing a flickering effect with this engaged. The flicker is almost completely eliminated with the 96Hz setting on the V10.


As for 24p itself, not sure why some wouldn't like it unless they are bothered by watching films in theaters and dislike the occasional judder that is inherent in 24fps material.

As I stated in my first post. The european G10 have 96 Hz refresh rate for 24p playback.

24p smooth film is panasonics name for interpolating more frames from 24p material to make movement smoother. This is usually disliked by movie enthusiasts.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by matbl /forum/post/16860512


24p smooth film is panasonics name for interpolating more frames from 24p material to make movement smoother. This is usually disliked by movie enthusiasts.

You've got it wrong - there's no "interpolation" happening in 24p mode if the setting is at 48Hz or 96Hz. It's playing back only the 24 frames per second that are present in the source material. Interpolation happens when the 24fps material is being converted to 30fps (technically 29.97).


There is no reason for "movie enthusiasts" to dislike the playback speed of 48Hz or 96Hz settings in 24p mode, other than the flicker that most people see in 48Hz. This is a different issue, having to do with the refresh rate being slow enough to be perceptible by the human eye, and has nothing to do with interpolation.


The reason Panasonic calls it 24p "smooth" film is because at 2:2 (48Hz) or 4:4 (96Hz) settings, the TV is only displaying the actual source frames and at a rate of showing each frame twice (2:2 48Hz) or four times (4:4 96Hz). When 24fps material is not being played back at 24fps and is converted to 30fps, often the conversion involves playing back 1 frame twice and the next frame 3 times (2:3) in order to convert from 24fps to 30fps. This method introduces a stutter to the playback; it's the lack of stutter in 48Hz and 96Hz 24p mode that makes it look "smoother". And in fact, it should look very similar to how you'd see it in the theater, unlike how we've seen movies converted to play back on TV's for decades.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16863471


You've got it wrong - there's no "interpolation" happening in 24p mode if the setting is at 48Hz or 96Hz. It's playing back only the 24 frames per second that are present in the source material. Interpolation happens when the 24fps material is being converted to 30fps (technically 29.97).


There is no reason for "movie enthusiasts" to dislike the playback speed of 48Hz or 96Hz settings in 24p mode, other than the flicker that most people see in 48Hz. This is a different issue, having to do with the refresh rate being slow enough to be perceptible by the human eye, and has nothing to do with interpolation.


The reason Panasonic calls it 24p "smooth" film is because at 2:2 (48Hz) or 4:4 (96Hz) settings, the TV is only displaying the actual source frames and at a rate of showing each frame twice (2:2 48Hz) or four times (4:4 96Hz). When 24fps material is not being played back at 24fps and is converted to 30fps, often the conversion involves playing back 1 frame twice and the next frame 3 times (2:3) in order to convert from 24fps to 30fps. This method introduces a stutter to the playback; it's the lack of stutter in 48Hz and 96Hz 24p mode that makes it look "smoother". And in fact, it should look very similar to how you'd see it in the theater, unlike how we've seen movies converted to play back on TV's for decades.

You are talking about what panasonic calls 24p cinematic playback which plays 24p at 96 Hz.

This is available on G10's in europe.


24p smooth film is only on european V10's. See: http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/eu/product/v_plasma.html

This is interpolation...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16870380


Bizarre - why would they do that? Do the European V10's not have normal 24p playback?

Both the European G10 and V10 (and G15 btw) have 96Hz playback of 24p material.

In addition, the V10 has the 24p smooth film feature which is interpolation. I assume this is similar to what for example samsung calls 100 Hz motion plus or something like that.

It gives a smoother tv-like look to film.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by matbl /forum/post/16870584


Both the European G10 and V10 (and G15 btw) have 96Hz playback of 24p material.

In addition, the V10 has the 24p smooth film feature which is interpolation. I assume this is similar to what for example samsung calls 100 Hz motion plus or something like that.

The differences in the European and U.S. model lines is interesting. If the G10 has 96Hz available in their 24p mode, what's the big incentive to get the V10 over there?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kirk_ /forum/post/16870825


The differences in the European and U.S. model lines is interesting. If the G10 has 96Hz available in their 24p mode, what's the big incentive to get the V10 over there?

The things I listed in my first post.

Design, DLNA, 24p smooth film, Deep color, THX mode.

But not in that order of course.


BTW, European G10's don't have THX mode.


According to reviews, the V10 also has better scaling of 576i (european version of 480i) signals but I have a receiver that scales very good (ABT chip) so that's not of importance to me.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top