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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok Guys.. this is a big one but we'll see how it goes. I am looking at pulling in all Tucson + Phoenix stations. I don't care about VHF as I already have an antenna I will use for the 2-3 VHF stations that will be broadcasting in DTV here. For reference, my zip code is 85742.


I was going to order a 4228HD but CM is not shipping them out to any retailer for a couple of weeks. I got impatient and started looking at the AntennaCraft U8000.


I have direct line of sight (no hills/mountains/anything) to the antenna's in phoenix (89 miles away) and I know for a fact they get picked up on a 4221 with an ancient pre-amp at my father's house a few miles away.


However -- he does not pick up all of the channels from phoenix with his 4221 and ancient preamp. I am a few miles closer and have a more direct line of sight.


I am wondering what your opinions and experiences are with the antenna's listed in the topic title. I would love to get the 4228HD but I don't want to wait for it unless they made some changes that justify waiting for it over another antenna that will perform equally.


Let's hear it
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bompus /forum/post/15556811


Ok Guys.. this is a big one but we'll see how it goes. I am looking at pulling in all Tucson + Phoenix stations. I don't care about VHF as I already have an antenna I will use for the 2-3 VHF stations that will be broadcasting in DTV here. For reference, my zip code is 85742.


I was going to order a 4228HD but CM is not shipping them out to any retailer for a couple of weeks. I got impatient and started looking at the AntennaCraft U8000.


I have direct line of sight (no hills/mountains/anything) to the antenna's in phoenix (89 miles away) and I know for a fact they get picked up on a 4221 with an ancient pre-amp at my father's house a few miles away.


However -- he does not pick up all of the channels from phoenix with his 4221 and ancient preamp. I am a few miles closer and have a more direct line of sight.


I am wondering what your opinions and experiences are with the antenna's listed in the topic title. I would love to get the 4228HD but I don't want to wait for it unless they made some changes that justify waiting for it over another antenna that will perform equally.


Let's hear it

I think it's too early to evaluate if the 4228HD pulls in better than the old 4228 which I own. The new one seems less heavy, which is a good thing but the specs say 60 mile range on UHF which is the same as the old. I also have a 91XG antenna which out performs my situation (multipath) in Pittsburgh Pa.The 91 is on the roof and the 4228 is in the attic connected to the other sets.We'll see what happens when (and if) analong goes away and SOME stations here go VHF . The 4228HD I see is $30.00 more than what I paid for my 4228 regular. Better have some improvement to warrent the price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's my concern.. is it any better performance-wise or not. I have heard some reports of it not being built as sturdy (could be just the nitpickers though).


Right now I am leaning on the AntennaCraft U8000 for UHF with a Winegard GS1100 for VHF both hooked up to a CM 7777 with a Eagle Aspen ROTR100 rotator (don't worry - I am hooking a dedicated wire up to it and not using the one-cable solution due to gain loss).
 

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I have the 91XG and the original 4228. The 4228 had a wider reception pattern which made it less (finicky?) to aim compared to the 91XG. The 91XG is much harder to aim, but it out performs the 4228 when aimed properly. In your situation I'd go with a rotator and the 91XG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'd rather go with easier to aim since my wife will get frustrated trying to aim it for the right channel. What types of signal strength difference is there between the 4228 and 91XG for you?
 

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What I ment by that was if it's not on a rotator then aiming would be a concern. But since you plan having it on a rotator then that concern is not there.


I attached my TVFOOL results below so you get a better idea of my reception. With the 4228 I was recieving WTKR and WHRO 24/7. With the 91XG I'm getting WTKR, WHRO, WAVY, and WTVZ 24/7. On WVEC the 4228 would pick it up sometime around 6pm until around 9am. With the 91XG WVEC only drops out during the early afternoon when it's windy.


PM me if you want more reception info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah it does look like the XG91 is good if you can aim it spot on. The reason I was leaning toward the 8-bay as well (U8000 possibly) is that there are no trees,hills,mountains,nothing in between the antenna location and the towers 90 miles away. Its a flat, nothing inbetween, direct shot as far as I know. Like I said before, my father can pick up those towers with a 4221 and a horrible ancient pre-amp and he is about 96 miles away from them and gets a 20-40% signal. I am trying to increase the signal strength so I won't have any issues at all.


Keep the suggestions coming
 

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Using a higher gain antenna like the xg-91 and a better low noise pre-amp like the CM7777 ought to give you what you desire...
 

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Assuming you really do have line of sight (did you check your location on tvfool.com?), and the stations are at a reasonably high power level (several hundred kW), you should have a good chance with a 91XG and a 7777 pre-amp. I have that combination and get a very good signal from a station 82 miles away that I have LOS to because it's on top of a high mountain. It's at 1000 kW UHF right now.


There's another station on that same mountain, at about 150 kW, that I think I could get reliably if it weren't for co-channel interference from an analog station in the opposite direction. After analog shutdown I'll know for sure.



I'm acquainted with the Tucson/Phoenix area, and I can imagine the possibilities of long-distance reception if there aren't any mountains in the way. You sure don't have many trees to worry about!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
For reference, here are some images of the tvfool and 2150 information in regards to the exact location of the antenna. I'm not sure why tvfool does not list the phoenix stations as direct line of sight -- as far as I can tell they are all broadcast from the same hill if I remember correctly. I am fairly confident there is nothing inbetween except sand.


Let me know what you think. I know my father picks up most of the phoenix ones (85-95 miles away) with his CM 4221 and old radioshack preamp. Just have a look at the images and let me know what you think about my location.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick /forum/post/15559272


Using a higher gain antenna like the xg-91 and a better low noise pre-amp like the CM7777 ought to give you what you desire...

bompus, I agree with Rick, lots of gain. There is no commercial antenna that has the gain of the xg-91 that I know about. It's reasonably priced (compare to a DB8 and others).


If that doesn't work, build a taller tower! :mad:)


Good luck and let us know later if you build out the above or any system.
 

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90 miles is pretty close to the horizon, and Phoenix's stations don't have the benefit of being on top of an 8800' mountain like Tucson's do. South Mountain is only about 2600' tall, or about 1400' above the average terrain.
 

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I have a 4228, my neighbor just purchased a 4228HD last month. Mine is on my roof (10 ft. mast) and un-amplified, his is mounted in the yard and he uses a CM 7777.


Our antennas are physically about 75 yards apart.


We are both getting Richmond, VA stations at 75-81 miles away.


I should also mention we are at 1400 ft., Richmond TV antennas are around 1100 ft.


I usually lose WCVW when the leaves come, can't speak for my neighbor's setup until spring.
 

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Bompus on the TVFool output the NM on the highest signal Phoenix station (KPHO) is -14.3. The TVFool FAQ says you add antenna gain to this figure and then subtract all losses after the antenna and if you end up with a number above zero then you have a shot. A preamp is going to cost you something like 2 dB of noise so your antenna would have to have a gain of at least 16-17 dB. I guess what I'm saying is I think it's very unlikely you'll be able to get a usable signal at that distance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by otaguy /forum/post/15572481


I guess what I'm saying is I think it's very unlikely you'll be able to get a usable signal at that distance.

We'll have to see once all my goodies arrive (still waiting to hear back from multiple vendors on antenna in-stock availability).


I honestly don't see how my dad is picking up those stations from PHX when he is 6 miles away farther than me and has worse tvfool readings. He is using a ~20 year old radio shack pre-amp with ~10db gain hooked up to the CM4221 and he picks almost all the PHX stations up at 20-30% signal strength on all of his CECB boxes. It is interesting to note however that he picks up the phoenix stations (330 degrees.. north-northeast) by pointing the CM4221 to 90 degrees (dead-on EAST). I am guessing the phoenix signals are bouncing off the near-by mountains. Does that make sense?


Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the advice all .. I am going with the XG91 and Winegard GS1100 hooked up to a CM 7777 preamp and the Eagle Aspen ROTR100 rotator (it's the "one-wire" rotator, but I am hooking it up on it's own wire so I don't lose any gain).


I now have to think about where to place the antenna that will give me the most line of sight to the signals or bounced signals. Now that I look, I have some neighbors with taller trees in their yards that I have to try to work between.
 

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I just bought a U8000, and I can say I'm impressed. It picks up high VHF and UHF at nearly equal strength apparently. My towers are about 28 miles away if that helps you any. I haven't tested to see if it picks up FM. I am not using a preamp or FM trap.
 

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Bump to an old thread about U8000 antennas.


I have the U8000 on order now from Amazon.

I looked at the link above, and found their cheap price offset by some very stiff shipping charges. I was looking at $105 delivered to the West Coast.


Checking in with ResellerRatings.Com, the above link has a low rating, and a lot of current unhappy customers. I'll pass.


Amazon charged a higher price + $9 shipping (10 pound shipping weight), and came in $20 less than the above site.


I've been doing a lot of digging and spread-sheeting the various antennas. The new Channel Masters "HD" series is getting dinged for flimsy construction and design issues. The 91XG is called "flimsy" and prone to wind catching. My final choice for roof top is the Denny's SD Stacker, but I opted for an attic mount instead. Other than the SD Stacker, I'm not finding redesigned UHF models for the new Ch51 upper limit. The U8000 doesn't get a lot of play here, but it looks to be well designed with a rugged construction.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a362c57a078e81


I opted to lose Ch9, Ch10 in my area for the simplicity of UHF only.
 

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The only UHF antennas that have been purposely designed for the 14-51 channel band are the UHF ClearStream Antennas from Antennas Direct.
 
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