[Aaron Springer]

I am not sure if this is the correct place to post this but I would like some speaker placement recommendations. Our media room is 20 feet wide x 10 feet tall by 15 deep but opens up into our kitchen. I have attached a few pictures that show what our current set up is but I am planning on opening up the walls and installing speakers in the next few days. We currently have our TV sitting on top of a stand but I am planning on raising our top shelf up and mounting the tv on the wall. I am going to move the center onto the top of the TV stand. Here are the speakers that I have:
(2) Kef R3 Fronts
(1) Kef R2C CEnter
(2) Kef R300 Rears
(4) Kef CI200QR for atmos and others.

Here are my questions:
In regards to the front speakers I have three options. I can leave them on the stand and have the center in the middle. I can offset them a couple of feet as seen in the picture (red dots) or I can install them in the corners. What do you think the best placement is?

Our current in ceiling are at the far right of the room and far left of the room. I am planning on moving the right side into the next bay and the left side 6 feet away from that. I know that I need a 10 x 10 grid for the atmos but that would put the atmos speakers in the kitchen. Do you think a 6 x 6 grid would work? That would put the rear in ceilings 3 feet behind out couch.

Lastly, our rear surrounds need to go high up on the wall. I bought mounts that will angle them down roughly 45". The will be roughly one foot in front of the rear in ceilings, do you think that is okay?

 

[RayGuy]

Can you put the TV on the wall opposite the couch (shown on the right wall in the first pic, so TV would be on the left wall)? That would solve a lot of problems in your layout.

 

[Liquid$team]

I don't really follow the pictures and post. Is your TV simply being raised up from it's current position? Honestly your room seems like a nightmare as far as placemnt goes for tv and speakers. I guess my advice would be to put everything where you want (as close to squared up as you can get and let your AVR room correction calibration fix it all.) You don't mention what AVR or processor you have but I know anything with audyssy will pretty much fix your speaker placement issues. The only caveat is when the speakers are severely off set your sweet seating area gets smaller and smaller in my experience. My room has the ATMOS speakers and side surrounds a little less than perfect positioning and after calibrating everything still sound awesome.

More importantly than speaker placement in your case with such an open room is subwoofer choice IMO. Center channel and subwoofer (IMO) make the home theater audio experience. Bass hitting the way it's supposed to and clear dialog are the 2 most import aspects. Surround effects are cool and add so much but if your dialog is not right and your subs are weak or too boomy it just kills the experience. I would suggest the PC series from SVS in your room simply because they take up less floor space. It looks like you'll need a couple large subs for the room size.

 

[Aaron Springer]

I don't really follow the pictures and post. Is your TV simply being raised up from it's current position? Honestly your room seems like a nightmare as far as placemnt goes for tv and speakers. I guess my advice would be to put everything where you want (as close to squared up as you can get and let your AVR room correction calibration fix it all.) You don't mention what AVR or processor you have but I know anything with audyssy will pretty much fix your speaker placement issues. The only caveat is when the speakers are severely off set your sweet seating area gets smaller and smaller in my experience. My room has the ATMOS speakers and side surrounds a little less than perfect positioning and after calibrating everything still sound awesome.

More importantly than speaker placement in your case with such an open room is subwoofer choice IMO. Center channel and subwoofer (IMO) make the home theater audio experience. Bass hitting the way it's supposed to and clear dialog are the 2 most import aspects. Surround effects are cool and add so much but if your dialog is not right and your subs are weak or too boomy it just kills the experience. I would suggest the PC series from SVS in your room simply because they take up less floor space. It looks like you'll need a couple large subs for the room size.

Yeah, the room definitely has it's challenges but I am a contractor and can pretty much open up any wall and run wire. I am planning on raising the tv up and moving the center speaker down on top of the tv stand. I can either leave the front right and left where I currently have them or I can move them into two positions. Picture image 955363-01 and 955363 show two possible options for the front right and left. In regards to the AVR, I am going to run the Denon AVX 6500H with Audyssey.

 

[Aaron Springer]

Can you put the TV on the wall opposite the couch (shown on the right wall in the first pic, so TV would be on the left wall)? That would solve a lot of problems in your layout.

Unfortunately that won't be an option. We have two boys and that wall is kid zone

 

[RayGuy]

Unfortunately that won't be an option. We have two boys and that wall is kid zone

How about you use your contractor skills to enclose the TV cubby hole, so it is then just a part of the wall. That gives you about 6-8 feet of wall space to use to hang your TV, place or hang your L, C, R speakers, and eliminate the main problem with the layout of the room.

 

[Aaron Springer]

How about you use your contractor skills to enclose the TV cubby hole, so it is then just a part of the wall. That gives you about 6-8 feet of wall space to use to hang your TV, place or hang your L, C, R speakers, and eliminate the main problem with the layout of the room.

This is a great idea. Thank you for the suggestion. What height would you put the fronts and center, I am thinking switch height (48 inches off finished floor)

 

[bobknavs]

This is a great idea. Thank you for the suggestion. What height would you put the fronts and center, I am thinking switch height (48 inches off finished floor)

Standard recommendation: tweeters at ear height for the main listening position. That's probably not very different from 48".

 

[Aaron Springer]

Standard recommendation: tweeters at ear height for the main listening position. That's probably not very different from 48".

Great, thank you!

 

[RayGuy]

This is a great idea. Thank you for the suggestion. What height would you put the fronts and center, I am thinking switch height (48 inches off finished floor)

Glad you liked the idea. Seemed the best scenario, after staring at the pictures.

As to heights, measure your seated ear height. The tweeter should be at that level. The best situation is when the L, C, and R tweeters are aligned horizontally. However, the TV screen area is best at 1/3 below and 2/3 above eye height (same as ear height, roughly). So, there is a conflict in best height between audio and video. Compromise the video by raising it above eye height to accommodate the audio, or compromise the audio by having the center at a somewhat different level from the the L&R, keeping the video at optimum height.

Your choice how you want to proceed, but I would experiment with various TV heights and speaker heights, widths, and toe-in (don't want to be too close to the wall corner), then choose the compromise that works best for you.

BTW, decide before you close up the wall, so you can run the in-wall (CL2 rated) speaker wire behind the speakers and the power/HDMI/whatever behind the TV. Use boxes and wall plates or just straight runs, as you see fit for the non-electrical elements (but keep them away from the electrical by 6", or so). It will also allow you to place the studs/crossbars at optimum positions to support your final TV and speaker placement.

 

[Aaron Springer]

Glad you liked the idea. Seemed the best scenario, after staring at the pictures.

As to heights, measure your seated ear height. The tweeter should be at that level. The best situation is when the L, C, and R tweeters are aligned horizontally. However, the TV screen area is best at 1/3 below and 2/3 above eye height (same as ear height, roughly). So, there is a conflict in best height between audio and video. Compromise the video by raising it above eye height to accommodate the audio, or compromise the audio by having the center at a somewhat different level from the the L&R, keeping the video at optimum height.

Your choice how you want to proceed, but I would experiment with various TV heights and speaker heights, widths, and toe-in (don't want to be too close to the wall corner), then choose the compromise that works best for you.

BTW, decide before you close up the wall, so you can run the in-wall (CL2 rated) speaker wire behind the speakers and the power/HDMI/whatever behind the TV. Use boxes and wall plates or just straight runs, as you see fit for the non-electrical elements (but keep them away from the electrical by 6", or so). It will also allow you to place the studs/crossbars at optimum positions to support your final TV and speaker placement.

Change of plans, my wife liked your original idea of putting the kids toys in the cubby. We're going to build some barn doors and shelves which will hide all of the toys. I installed the TV and speakers yesterday, just need to patch the holes. I will upload some pics when I am all wrapped up, system sounds killer! I bought an ultra 4k blu ray player with Avengers: End Game and my wife and kids were amazed at the clarity. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. I used CL3 wire as that is what my supply shop had in stock. I may wind up Bi-amping the speakers but we will see. What are your thoughts on that, worth the work?

 

[RayGuy]

Change of plans, my wife liked your original idea of putting the kids toys in the cubby. We're going to build some barn doors and shelves which will hide all of the toys. I installed the TV and speakers yesterday, just need to patch the holes. I will upload some pics when I am all wrapped up, system sounds killer! I bought an ultra 4k blu ray player with Avengers: End Game and my wife and kids were amazed at the clarity. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. I used CL3 wire as that is what my supply shop had in stock. I may wind up Bi-amping the speakers but we will see. What are your thoughts on that, worth the work?

Well, that's an even better solution! Now, you have lots of room to place your speakers at their optimum width, with no walls to muddy up the sound. That said, it does make your atmos speaker placement a bit less optimal, as the couch opposite is all the way against the wall. You could pull the couch out to be more centered on the fireplace (your new focal point) while giving the kids more room for their play area, behind. This would also allow for more optimal placement of your rear atmos speakers. Alternatively, leave the couch in it's current position and just install right above the couch and live with whatever that brings.

Good decision, IMO. Doors covering the cubby will be a nice compromise. Just out of curiosity, is the space behind the wall to the right of the cubby empty, or is there an appliance hiding there? If it's unused space, maybe you could extend the cubby almost all the way to the wall (match the pillar width on the left side), giving you a lot more room for storage. I could see some folding shutter-type doors there. Also, white paint on the inside would be a huge improvement, for when the doors are open. That black is so distracting ... and out-of-place with the rest of the room.

 

[Aaron Springer]

Well, that's an even better solution! Now, you have lots of room to place your speakers at their optimum width, with no walls to muddy up the sound. That said, it does make your atmos speaker placement a bit less optimal, as the couch opposite is all the way against the wall. You could pull the couch out to be more centered on the fireplace (your new focal point) while giving the kids more room for their play area, behind. This would also allow for more optimal placement of your rear atmos speakers. Alternatively, leave the couch in it's current position and just install right above the couch and live with whatever that brings.

Good decision, IMO. Doors covering the cubby will be a nice compromise. Just out of curiosity, is the space behind the wall to the right of the cubby empty, or is there an appliance hiding there? If it's unused space, maybe you could extend the cubby almost all the way to the wall (match the pillar width on the left side), giving you a lot more room for storage. I could see some folding shutter-type doors there. Also, white paint on the inside would be a huge improvement, for when the doors are open. That black is so distracting ... and out-of-place with the rest of the room.

I installed the atmos above the couch, it wasn't ideal but with our current couch configuration it was the best solution. We host a lot of family get together's and random dinner parties so we need the large couch and having access behind it would mean minimizing couch size. With that said, my wife is excited to look at new couches so maybe we can find something a bit more atmos friendly. Our house was built in the early 90's and that cubby was designed for the large big screen tv's during that time frame. The other side of the wall is our backyard. I think with the correct shelf sizes we should be able to optimize the space and get all of the toys in there. Going to really clean up the living room!

What are your thoughts on bi-amping? Worth it?

 

[RayGuy]

I installed the atmos above the couch, it wasn't ideal but with our current couch configuration it was the best solution. We host a lot of family get together's and random dinner parties so we need the large couch and having access behind it would mean minimizing couch size. With that said, my wife is excited to look at new couches so maybe we can find something a bit more atmos friendly. Our house was built in the early 90's and that cubby was designed for the large big screen tv's during that time frame. The other side of the wall is our backyard. I think with the correct shelf sizes we should be able to optimize the space and get all of the toys in there. Going to really clean up the living room!

What are your thoughts on bi-amping? Worth it?

Don't bother with bi-amping. If you find that you are running out of headroom in the receiver, and it has pre-outs, then the better solution would be to implement a separate 2 or 3 channel amp to power the fronts, allowing the receiver to more easily amplify the surrounds / Atmos. Have you run into issues with the receiver shutting down or the speakers sounding strained (as happens with underpowered systems)? Important that your receiver has room to breathe. Whatever you do with it's new positioning, be sure there is plenty of air around it.

What configuration are you currently running? 5.1.4? What receiver make/model are you using?

A couple of couches with a smaller form factor would better allow for framing the fireplace, while moving the couch off the back wall for better rear Atmos performance (an added benefit is that it would probably improve the bass performance, as on-wall seating tends towards boomy bass). Maybe add a portable bench or fold-a-way chairs that can sit in front of the new cubby doors when you have a larger group. It can be stored in the window cut-out to the left of the fireplace (first pic). The current couch is a bit oversized for the room, so the aesthetics of the room would be greatly improved (over and above the hidden toys). Win-win!

Congrats on the new layout! Does not surprise me that everything sounds so much better.

 

[Aaron Springer]

Don't bother with bi-amping. If you find that you are running out of headroom in the receiver, and it has pre-outs, then the better solution would be to implement a separate 2 or 3 channel amp to power the fronts, allowing the receiver to more easily amplify the surrounds / Atmos. Have you run into issues with the receiver shutting down or the speakers sounding strained (as happens with underpowered systems)? Important that your receiver has room to breathe. Whatever you do with it's new positioning, be sure there is plenty of air around it.

What configuration are you currently running? 5.1.4? What receiver make/model are you using?

A couple of couches with a smaller form factor would better allow for framing the fireplace, while moving the couch off the back wall for better rear Atmos performance (an added benefit is that it would probably improve the bass performance, as on-wall seating tends towards boomy bass). Maybe add a portable bench or fold-a-way chairs that can sit in front of the new cubby doors when you have a larger group. It can be stored in the window cut-out to the left of the fireplace (first pic). The current couch is a bit oversized for the room, so the aesthetics of the room would be greatly improved (over and above the hidden toys). Win-win!

Congrats on the new layout! Does not surprise me that everything sounds so much better.

Rayguy-
I was finally able to get the holes patched and am pretty much finished. We bought a sliding barn door to cover the kids cubby hole, project for this weekend and I am going to build a floating shelf for the center. I am loving the system, also bought a HSU sub since we last spoke .

 

[RayGuy]

Rayguy-
I was finally able to get the holes patched and am pretty much finished. We bought a sliding barn door to cover the kids cubby hole, project for this weekend and I am going to build a floating shelf for the center. I am loving the system, also bought a HSU sub since we last spoke .

Thanks for the update. The shelves look so much better than the black hole that used to inhabit that spot in the room. Good move getting the HSU. I suspect it was a light years improvement over it's predecessor. The floating shelf for the center will certainly improve the overall clarity of the sound.

Nice outcome!

 

[Aaron Springer]

Thanks for the update. The shelves look so much better than the black hole that used to inhabit that spot in the room. Good move getting the HSU. I suspect it was a light years improvement over it's predecessor. The floating shelf for the center will certainly improve the overall clarity of the sound.

Nice outcome!

Thank you! We are going to add a few more shelves and will enclose it with the barn door. Great solution for all the kids toys. Next up, backyard sound and lighting