[TimV]

Hello chaps,


I was wondering what you all thought of 6.1 & 7.1 surround systems compared to the more standard 5.1 systems. Is the difference THAT noticeable? Is it worth the upgrade? I ask because sometime in the next year I will be buying and remodeling a house and plan on building an HT into the family room. I already have a good 5.1 receiver (DENON AVR-5700) and I am wondering if the benefits of 6.1/7.1 are worth the expense of a new receiver and additional speakers. Also, are there any good listening rooms in the SF Bay Area that have nice 6.1/7.1 setups? Thanks a lot.

 

[BasementBob]

I believe there are reasons to skip 6.1, something about single speaker behind the head doing something odd.

I've had 5.1 for a while (5 tiny satilite speakers), and this week I'm moving up to 7.1 (with real speakers).

 

[TimV]

I believe 6.1 require two rear speakers (in addition to the two side speakers of 5.1) to create an enveloping sound field. The difference with 7.1 is that the two rears become separate channels.

 

[optivity]

Six channel receivers add a rear-center surround capable channel. 6.1 surround sound supports Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES soundtracks. Just like anything else, if the content is provided; there is an audible difference when playing a DVD with a DTS-ES soundtrack. While I own an Onkyo 6.1 HT, it is not THX certified.

 

[Version]

To clarify,


A 6.1 AVR has 6 amps and can send up to 6 different signals to its speakers. It can also have connections for either 6 or 7 speakers. (All Pioneer 6.1 receivers have 7 speaker binding posts for example) The caveat is that the two back surround speakers are powered off of one amp and can therefore only be sent one mono sound.


A 7.1 AVR has seven discrete amps and when equipped with DPL IIx or Logic 7 can send up to 7 distinct channels to 7 speakers connected to it.


The prefered way to set-up up both 6.1 and 7.1 is with 7 speakers and a subwoofer.

 

[TimV]

Thanks for clearing up the technical issues.


As far as my original question goes, how noticeable is the difference between 5.1 and 6.1/7.1? Is it a substantial one or is it fairly minor?


Thanks again.

 

[Version]

I find the difference quite substantial. It is not like going from 2.0 to 5.1 though. If you have a processor that has DPL IIx or Logic 7 a set-up can be very impressive with 7 distinct speakers.

 

[DMF]

Quote:

Originally posted by BasementBob I believe there are reasons to skip 6.1, something about single speaker behind the head doing something odd.

It's called reversion, and it only happens when the rear speaker is placed directly on-axis with the center. The listener's brain tends to mis-interpret sounds from directly behind as coming from the front. Set the single rear off-axis 5' or more (degrees, not feet) - or use two speakers off-axis - and there is no problem.


And I too, find 6.1 to be a pleasurable upgrade from 5.1. But I do have space behind the listening positions. That can often be the difference. If your only choice is to put the rears up in the ceiling, then stick with 5.1.

 

[TimV]

So, for a 6.1/7.1 system to be most effective, the rear speakers should be a few feet behind the listeners, with the surround speakers on either side?

 

[DMF]

Yes.

 

[BasementBob]

DMF
Quote:

It's called reversion, and it only happens when the [6.1] rear speaker is placed directly on-axis with the center. The listener's brain tends to mis-interpret sounds from directly behind as coming from the front.

Yea! That was it. Thanks.

 

[greenhouse]

I added a temp. rear center and noticed a nice difference. The first movie I put in was DTS-ES and noticed a real difference. That being said, I will add a separate amp to power two rears to better disperse the sound. Can't wait!

 

[sdurani]

Tim,
Quote:

I believe 6.1 require two rear speakers (in addition to the two side speakers of 5.1) to create an enveloping sound field. The difference with 7.1 is that the two rears become separate channels.

Correct: 6.1-channel and 7.1-channel systems are both run on 7.1-speaker set-ups. (Extra points for not confusing number of channels with number of speakers.)
Quote:

how noticeable is the difference between 5.1 and 6.1/7.1? Is it a substantial one or is it fairly minor?

Depends on several factors: the room, the speaker layout, your hearing, listening material, etc.


But even with less-than-ideal circumstances, there are three thing you should notice when going from 5.1 to 7.1 playback: better localization (4 speakers allow more distinct placement of surround content than just 2 speakers); greater envelopment (4 speakers can 'surround' you better than 2 speakers can); and increased stability of imaging in the surround field (no matter where you sit in the listening area, sounds at your sides and sounds behind you stay locked to those directions because there are speakers physically placed at those locations).


It's difficult, if not impossible, to get all that from only 2 surround speakers. Even if you have the 2 best surround speakers in the world, they can't be in two places at once.
Quote:

for a 6.1/7.1 system to be most effective, the rear speakers should be a few feet behind the listeners, with the surround speakers on either side?

That would be ideal. In a 5.1-speaker set-up, it helps to have the surrounds at your sides but rearward of the listening area. This helps strike a decent compromise between side and rear imaging in the surround field. This compromise isn't necessary with a 7.1 set-up because you have speakers at your sides and behind you.


Our ear/brain mechanism creates phantom imaging by comparing the imput from both ears. This works best up front, where our human hearing is most acute. But it is weakest directly to our sides, where we're basically using a single ear (the ear on the other side of your head isn't helping much). So it really does help to have a pair of speakers at that location: directly to our sides.


Of course, this leaves a big hole in the surround field behind us. The easiest way to solve that problem is to simply place speakers behind us. These sounds should actually sound like they're coming from behind, not above or some other direction, so it helps to have some distance between the seating area and the rear wall; even if it's (as you said) a few feet.


Best,

Sanjay

 

[ChrisWiggles]

Sanjay's just too fast for me! What he said.

 

[sdurani]

Quote:

Sanjay's just too fast for me!

Yeah, I hear that a lot; especially from women .


Sanjay

 

[ChrisWiggles]

lol.


i meant you always answer these threads!

 

[dfiler]

Moving from 5.1 to 7.1 greatly improved realism in my theater.


Previously, it was difficult to calibrate levels so that the surround field was seemless for everyone in the room. It was possible to make it sound good for only one seating location at a time.


With 7.1 the sweet spot is much larger. Ambient sounds are perceived more equally by everyone no matter where they are sitting.

 

[jcapellman]

I'm debating as well, I'm only in a 12'x13' room though. Here's my setup at the moment:

http://s90409289.onlinehome.us/temp/ht.png


Putting another one about midway through the room on each side would be my only solution. It'll look kind of weird though.

 

[sdurani]

jcapellman,


With your listening position against the back wall, it would be difficult to successfully pull off a 7.1-speaker set-up. You really do need space behind the listeners to properly locate the rear speakers. To be effective, sounds coming from behind you should be distinct from sounds coming from your sides. Placing a pair of speakers between your current surrounds and fronts won't give you that result. If I were in your situation, I'd stick to a 5-speaker layout.


Best,

Sanjay

 

[jcapellman]

Sanjay,

Yeah that's always been a problem, I've thought about moving my bed into the basement along with my nightstand and then buying a recliner and putting it in the center of the room so I'd have better surround.


Most of the time I sit about half way down my bed so I pick up on the surround effects. Having 4 Floor standing speakers is great for bass output but for space efficiency they really suck