AVS Forum banner

Do you apply Dolby ProLogic IIx to 5.1 sources?

  • Yep! I want 7.1 at whatever cost! I paid for 'em I wanna hear 'em.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, never. I prefer it the way it was meant to be heard!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I own a 7.1 environment, but many movies only come in 5.1. Being new to this I was wondering if other 7.1 system owners are applying Dolby ProLogic IIx to always get 7.1 or if they leave audio output unchanged and listen to it the way the movie was encoded. I was unsure if applying Dolby ProLogic IIx added 7.1 at the cost of fidelity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
My Yamaha gives me three options for 5.1 audio, the default 5.1 mode, an enhanced mode which uses the 2 extra front (presence) speakers or an extended mode which uses the 2 surround back speakers. I mostly use the enhanced mode.


Dolby PLIIx is only available to me when listening to 2 channel sources.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,367 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhato /forum/post/14273530


I own a 7.1 environment, but many movies only come in 5.1. Being new to this I was wondering if other 7.1 system owners are applying Dolby ProLogic IIx to always get 7.1 or if they leave audio output unchanged and listen to it the way the movie was encoded. I was unsure if applying Dolby ProLogic IIx added 7.1 at the cost of fidelity.

I have my receiver (Onkyo TX-sr805) set to DPIIx movie for everything (cable TV, 5.1 DVDs/blue-rays etc.).


The only time it doesn't show pro logic IIx movie is when the disc is DTS es/discrete 6.1 or higher or 7.1 blu-rays.


It definitely enhances the sound. Keep in mind, all it effects are the side surrounds, by interpreting what should go to the rears. It doesn't touch the fronts.


I always have all 7 speakers (plus sub) going.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,564 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMVinnie /forum/post/14273732


My Yamaha gives me three options for 5.1 audio, the default 5.1 mode, an enhanced mode which uses the 2 extra front (presence) speakers or an extended mode which uses the 2 surround back speakers. I mostly use the enhanced mode.


Dolby PLIIx is only available to me when listening to 2 channel sources.

PLIIx is only available for 2 channel sources? That doesn't sound right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
Never seen a Yamaha not allow you to use DPLIIx for 5.1 DD/DTS. Not all receivers will allow you to apply DPLIIx to MPCM though.


What's your setup?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
606 Posts
From the Dolby site:


"Pro Logic IIx is the first and only technology to expand any existing stereo- or 5.1-channel audio for a 6.1- or 7.1- channel playback, creating a seamless, natural surround soundfield that immerses you in the entertainment experience."


I use it from time to time, especially when gaming. I have no complaints and I don't think it degrades the sound from the other channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,671 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMVinnie /forum/post/14273732


My Yamaha gives me three options for 5.1 audio, the default 5.1 mode, an enhanced mode which uses the 2 extra front (presence) speakers or an extended mode which uses the 2 surround back speakers. I mostly use the enhanced mode.


Dolby PLIIx is only available to me when listening to 2 channel sources.

Chk your manual:

Yamaha HTR-6080 will allow you to use DPLIIx for 5.1 DD/DTS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,395 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/14274002


Never seen a Yamaha not allow you to use DPLIIx for 5.1 DD/DTS. Not all receivers will allow you to apply DPLIIx to MPCM though.

My Yamaha HTR-5860 [rebadged RX-V657] can only apply EX/ES expansion to DD5.1/DTS5.1 signals [it will NOT apply any of DPL, DPLII, DPLIIx, Neo:6]. This is the case with the receiver configured as either 6.1 or 7.1.


I suspect this was a chip architecture limitation. [Wasn't this the model year the RX-V6xx/RX-V8xx went from 6.1 to 7.1 capable?]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts

My Yamaha HTR-5860 [rebadged RX-V657] can only apply EX/ES expansion to DD5.1/DTS5.1 signals [it will NOT apply any of DPL, DPLII, DPLIIx, Neo:6]. This is the case with the receiver configured as either 6.1 or 7.1.


EDIT: SoundChex please see my post below. You should be able to get PLIIx working with 5.1 sources and this receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy_winds /forum/post/14274354


Chk your manual:

Yamaha HTR-6080 will allow you to use DPLIIx for 5.1 DD/DTS.

EDIT: Figured it out thanks to one of MJHuman's prior postings!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
I have always found Yamaha's interface and displays dealing with DTS-ES/DD EX confusing.


Scenario - RX-V2700, Play X Men Last Stand from my PS3, bitstream over HDMI selected


With the EX soundtrack selected, when you cycle through Ext Surr you get Off, Auto:pLIIx move, PLIIx movie:On. Pick either of the last two and the display will show 'STRAIGHT/Dolby Digital'. The Dolby Digital and DD PLIIx lights will light up. Hit straight again which puts it into a mode where you can select the decoder, and the display will show 'DD D+PLIIxMovie'. The indicators stay the same. I believe both of those are saying the same thing.


Now I switch to the 6.1 DTS ES soundtrack on the same movie. I cycle through the Ext Surr options and I get Off, Auto:ES Disc, PLIIx Movie:On. Unlike DD EX, you get different results whether you use Auto or PLIIx.


With auto, you see 'STRAIGHT/DTS' with the DTS, discrete and ES indicators on. Hit Straight again and it show 'SUR. DECODE/DTS ES' with the same indicators. I believe this is saying the same thing. Confusing, to me



Selecting PLIIxMovie:On and you see' STRAIGHT/DTS' with the indicators DD PLIIx and DTS on. I am not really sure what that's telling me
If it's discrete, it must be decoding the 6th channel. But is it then using the DPLIIx decode to matrix to 7 channels? Now hit straight again, and it says 'SUR. DECODE/DTS+PLIIx Movie' with the DTS and DD PLIIx indicators on. I assume that means the same thing. Confusing, as I say



Some observations... Clearly X Men is properly flagged. Choosing Ext Sur Auto seems to be the correct thing to do, at least for this movie. It's odd how toggling Straight gives a different text readout, and confusing. But I don't believe hitting straight actually changes how it's operating, just how it displays the current mode. I believe DPLIIx includes the EX decoder as part of it's operation. But I don't fully understand what that means. Selecting PLIIxMovie:On for the DTS ES soundtrack does "something" I guess? But I don't know what. Is it decoding the discrete track? I would personally avoid that mode as I don't understand it.


I have a Yamaha RX-V657 in the bedroom, but no surround speakers on it, so I can't play around with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thank you so much for the replies. I asked because in these threads a person typically gets good answers as too what happens when processing is used. I am very pleased with my receiver, but it has limitations. Had the consensus been leave it unprocessed because adding IIx messes this up and that up, then I would care.


My receiver is a Panasonic SA-XR700 (PS3 as Blu-ray player). I can apply Dolby PL-IIx to any 2-channel PCM and up to 5.1 channel PCM at no more than 44.1 khz. I can playback 7.1 channel PCM at up to 96 khz. This receiver allows for DPL-IIx on all bitstreamed choices, but no higher than Dolby Digital EX which I would leave as EX anyway.


I can't use DPL-IIx on any Blu-Ray movie as they are typically at least 5.1/48khz. The PS3 checks the encoded audio frequency, then compares it to the list of supported PCM output options supported by the receiver. If I watch a Blu-ray encoded at 5.1/48khz, enter the PS3 audio menu to remove all 7.1 options, and leave 5.1/44.1khz as well as the minimum 2-channel options it will output 2-channel @ 48khz. This would allow for DPL-IIx, but it doesn't sound right. The PS3 won't scale encoded frequencies.


So if I was to replace my receiver it would have to be one that can apply DPL-IIx to all PCM sources, which could get expensive. I havent checked.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
When I still had 7.1 setup with the Pioneer VSX-516K I found some rare DVDs with DD 5.1 that had all sounds located on the Back relocated to back surrounds with no panning at all with DPLIIx, turning it off fixed this problem for those DVDs (Never tried Neo 6 Cinema though)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
I remember when I first setup my Marantz SR4500 with 7.1, I too asked what decoding method I should use for different sources. The general consensus was IIx for anything 5.1 to 7.1 (Unless it's DTS or DTS ES obviously), and for 2 channel sources to just use DD stereo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
So, I have some good news for Yamaha owners such as myself and SoundChex about enabling PLIIx decoding with 5.1 sources. Thanks an 18-month-old post from none other then MichaelJHuman, over on the audioholics forums, I can now take full advantage of my 7.1 speakers with 5.1 sources.


What his post clarifies over the Yamaha manual is that you need to hit the keys while the EX/ES setting is in progress...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman in Oct. 2006 /forum/post/0


If I hit extended surround button on the remote repeatedly, I scroll through the options:

Off

Auto

Dolby EX


If I select EX, then I hear sound from the back surrounds even when I play a standard 5.1 source (This is confusing to me based on what I read about EX on Dolby's own site.)


Anyway, I can then immediately (while EX: Dolby EX is displayed) hit the button and scroll through another set of choices:

EXolby EX (Displays Dolby D EX after a few seconds)

PLIIxMovie:ON (Displays D+PLIIxMovie after a few seconds)

PLIIxMusic:ON (Displays D+PLIIxMusic after a few seconds)

EX/ESolby EX (Displays Dolby D EX after a few seconds)


So it looks like it can somehow use the EX decoder to playback a 5.1 source on all 6.1 channels. And I can also use the PLIIx decoder in conjunction with the EX decoder. I am trying to understand how these decoders work together.

Breathes some new life into this receiver, which I've had for well over a year now without using this feature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
That post demonstrates that I have always been a bit confused by Dolby EX/Dolby Pro Logic IIx


I have come to the conclusion, without (fully understanding it,) that the Dolby Pro Logic IIx decoder incorporates these features -

* Dolby EX decoding (Apparently the same thing as DPL IIx movie)

* Dolby Pro Logic II (surround sound from two channel sources; I would guess that DPL IIx Music mode is like the older Dolby Pro Logic II decoder)

* The ability to expand 5.1 sources to 6.1/7.1 soundfields (Try DPL IIx movie mode)
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top