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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks, I'm looking at buying a new 50" HDTV.


Its primary usage will be for HD DVD movies, HD gaming(Xbox 360 and PS3), and HD TV programs(Mostly NFL football and Discovery channel).


I have a budget of around $2500. I have decided on 50" 16:9 aspect ratio.


So my big question is what is better for my needs?


The TV's I have it narrowed down to are:


The Sony KDS 50A2000 SXRD RPTV which does 720p, 1080i and 1080p and has a native screen resolution of 1920x1080.


Or


The Panasonic TH-50PX600U which I think only does 720p and 1080i, but only has a screen resolution of 1366x768, or basically 720p native.


Or possibly the Pioneer PDP 5070HD, again 720p native 1365x768 resolution and also does 1080i.



I unfortunately have to buy this next tv without being able to see the display in person. I live in the middle of nowhere and the local Walmart only carries a similiar Panasonic 42" Plasma which looked really good.


So I am asking the help and opinions of others which I may be most happy with.


The strong points that I like about the SXRD from reading and reviews include: 1920x1080 native resolution and tons of picture control, it also has all the hookups Ill need. My Playstation 3 will have 1080p supported games through an HDMI connection, my Xbox 360 does 720p native res. games through component video or VGA. My HD DVD player(Xbox 360 add on drive) will also support 1080i and now it supports 1080p through a software upgrade b ut currently runs through component video cables(no HDMI cable available yet, possibly this summer).


Some things that possibly worry me about the Lcos Sony SXRD:


A. Performance on high 60 frame per second gaming(no ghosting or lag is wanted!).


B.Performance watching fast moving sports like hockey and football.


C. Uniformity of colors, whites and blacks across the entire screen(I have read that some RPTV's are brighter in the middle with dulling in the corners, something I dont really want).


Now the strong points on the Plasmas that I like in my list above include: Uniformity of colors, whites etc. across the entire screen. Supposedly no ghosting or lag, and if Im correct plasmas are great for gaming and fast action sports and movies.


What I really don't like though is the lower native resolution of 1366x768. Which I think means these Plasma displays will look their best in 720p and not in 1080i and can't do 1080p.


I know the 2 plasmas will display a 1080i signal, but its not going to have the 1920x1080 resolution. How big of a deal is that? I personally don't understand what the point is in being able to display a 1080i picture if its missing half the pixels needed to fully display the picture.


So whats better for me? Higher resolution with questionable picture uniformity of colors and whites and a 5ms response time of the SXRD or lower resolution, but more uniform color and white display with possibly a technology thats better suited for video games and fast action?


Please give me your views on this.
 

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I'm curious about this aswell but after reading the Official 1080P vs 720P thread (it's a stick at the top of this category) I don't think the human eye can tell the difference between 1080p and 768P at such a small screen size. However, I agree with Zippy that it's a waste of 1920x1080 resolutions


Also, that thread only gave examples of 37 and 42" tvs. I wonder if pixelation is visible on 50" or 52" plasma TVs.
 

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If you have the room for the SXRD, I would go with that. Flat panels are great if you only have limited space but I do think the SXRD has a better picture. Also a comparable size SXRD is cheaper. You can probably find a 55" or 60" SXRD for the same price as the 50" 'brand-name' plasma.


For what it's worth, I actually have a 42" plasma and have several friends with various 42" and 50" plasma and one with last years 60" SXRD (XBR1) and I do think that his has the best picture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by micheldb /forum/post/0


If you have the room for the SXRD, I would go with that. Flat panels are great if you only have limited space but I do think the SXRD has a better picture. Also a comparable size SXRD is cheaper. You can probably find a 55" or 60" SXRD for the same price as the 50" 'brand-name' plasma.


For what it's worth, I actually have a 42" plasma and have several friends with various 42" and 50" plasma and one with last years 60" SXRD (XBR1) and I do think that his has the best picture.

I actually have plenty of room for the SXRD. Its actually not much bigger than the plasma tv's and only has a depth of about 17".


I would probably prefer a 50" since Im only going to be 4-6' in front of the TV.


And wouldnt a 50" SXRD give a sharper picture than say its 55" or 60" counterpart since it has the same resolution in a slightly smaller sized screen?


thanks for the responses thus far helping me out here. I have done alot of reading here on this great forum, but at times the info gets to be too much, mind overload if you catch my drift.


Also do any of the TV's I listed above have 1:1 pixel mapping? From what I understand 1:1 pixel mapping is something I want since its going to be a gaming/sports entertainment TV for myself and the kids.
 

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I'd go with the SXRD.. Framerate is not an issue with this set whatsover. Blu-ray movies look utterly amazing on the SXRD's as well as PS3 and xbox360 games looking fantastic.


I'd only go with a Plasma if you needed thin (which you are paying extra for). Also you would then possibly have Image Retention and Burn-in.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyBongHits /forum/post/0


I actually have plenty of room for the SXRD. Its actually not much bigger than the plasma tv's and only has a depth of about 17".


I would probably prefer a 50" since Im only going to be 4-6' in front of the TV.


And wouldnt a 50" SXRD give a sharper picture than say its 55" or 60" counterpart since it has the same resolution in a slightly smaller sized screen?


thanks for the responses thus far helping me out here. I have done alot of reading here on this great forum, but at times the info gets to be too much, mind overload if you catch my drift.


Also do any of the TV's I listed above have 1:1 pixel mapping? From what I understand 1:1 pixel mapping is something I want since its going to be a gaming/sports entertainment TV for myself and the kids.

I have written about this before at some length so you might want to search mt ID.


In short I too was sold a year ago on SXRD until I happened to be in a store that had moved a plasma next to the SXRD display. The difference in PQ was startling. The through-the-window clarity of the plasma was in stark contrase to the everpresent SSE seen as a sheen on the SXRD. It is a fact of life with all such projection systems that you will see this SSE and it makes all the difference.


But I too was sold on 1080p and true if you are close enough you do need 1080p because at too close a distance SDE on a plasma is worse that SSE on a projection display.


So it all boils down to distance. SDE goes away for my eyes betwen 7 and 8' eye to screen distance. At and beyond that distance, 1080p is of no value as my eyes cannot resolve the extra resolution. There is no doubt in my mind that the plasma colors and clarity, overall PQ, is far superior to even the SXRD.


You say, however, that you need to sit close and so it seems you are on the edge. Remember, however, that the 17" depth does matter as it allows a plasma to be placed about a foot further back, which in your instance could make all the difference.


You need to measure very carefully and then go into a store and view at the exact distance you will be at home to determine if SDE intrudes, is noticable, from that distance. If not, then by all means get the plasma. You will be rewarded with the best quality picture available. If not, then get the SXRD as you will be among the minority that requires 1080p and since 1080p plasmas are very expensive the SXRD makes sense in that situation.


Good luck and cheers,



Gary
 

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Hard to say actually. Buying something sight unseen would also indicate that returning the unit is going to be a PITA.


4-6' is really close at that screen size the extra resolution may make sense for you- especially for HD DVD/BD and/or any 1080p gaming (make sure that whatever LCoS set you get can properly support 1080p over VGA for your 360 source).


Honestly, for me the only time I personally recommend rear-projection is when the person is price sensitive, doesn't care about the aesthetic, and/or is really concerned about plasma boogeymen (and doesn't mind replacement bulb costs nor concerned about loosing power abruptly). There are just too many issues with RP that bug some people and it's hard to predict who is sensitive to what. Some folks are more picky than others. RP has a host of issues ranging from off-axis viewing angle (both vertically and horizonally), crap in the optics, hot spotting, SSE, to a 'beamy' picture- and in DLP some people see rainbows etc.. So I guess what I'm saying is I'd strongly suggest you go look at some TVs and not make the decision based purely on what some people on a forum are telling you to buy.
 

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I went through this same debate (Sony 50" SXRD v. Pioneer 5070) and read many posts and started some threads trying to figure out which direction to go in. I actually brought the Sony home given the $$ savings and the potential for 1080p. The picture was indeed very good and it is a very good product. A lot of bang for the $. In the end, I decided to change course and go with the Pioneer 5070 series (got a great deal substantially reducing the price difference between the SXRD and Pio and some cosmetic changes to the built-in cabinet suited a plasma better ). Got the Pio home and WOW, it is amazing. The PQ between the two are very close but the Pio plasma just has something that the Sony did not in terms of depth of picture and vibrancy. The SD picture also seems substantially better than the Sony's SD picture. The Pio's cabinet aesthetics (all black) are much better than the silver and black of the Sony. Although I debated about the 720p v 1080p stuff, I concluded that the 1080p needs more time to work itself out for a uniform application by DVD players, etc (24hz v 60hz), that 1080p sources via OTA and satellite are a long ways off and 1080p seems to make a big difference for bigger screen sizes (>= 60"). In the end, for my particular circumstances I'm very happy I switched to the Pio 5070.
 

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ZAippybonghits

It looks like you've done a bit of research & are detial oriented & getting close. Good for you, many new posters are nowhere near where you are.


Ok, first of all, the pioneer will accept a 1080p24 signal. I'm not positive on the panny, but I thought that would also accept 1080p. You might want to check out the recent posts from PIOMANIAC, as he has is similar setup (pio 5070 with XB360, PS3 and (I think) a A2).


From 5' you should notice a difference between a 768p and a 1080p display. The difference in resolution begins to be noticable somewhere around 8.5' & becomes fully apparent around 6.5 feet. Since you're closer, 1080p vs 768p should be fully apparent.


Of your 2 choices, I would probably recommend the Sony since you sit so close, BUT make sure you view one in person before buying. Some people just don't like the looks of rear projection tvs (my wife being among them) because of the silk screen effect (SSE). So it becomes a bit of a Screen Door Effect (SDE) vs SSE decison.


New007: same thing, "piexlation" is visible on larger screens if you sit close enough. Personally, I can't discern individual pixels further than about 3' on a 50" 768p screen. But I can notice a difference between a 768 & 1080 at about 7.5-8'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi guys! Thanks for all the reponses, and please keep em coming! I just had double hernia surgury this morning(not fun and it sucks to cough,laugh,move lol) and am trying to use the next 1-2 weeks of my downtime to help me make the best buying decision for my next TV.


Just so you guys know, Im not 100% new to HDTV, but this is my first attempt at serious research. I live up in the White mountains of NH, and as I stated previously I really have no choice but to buy this next TV sight unseen.


Also, I do have a copy of DVE, which I did buy when I bought my last HDTV.


About my last HDTV, its a Mitsubishi Diamond Series WD55813. When I bought this last tv about 2-3 years back, I kinda just did an impulse buy and had an extra $3500 kicking around, lol. I bought it not knowing much about it other than it was the right size for my needs and it looked pretty good on the floor.


I have been fairly happy with it, but I just found out it only has 1200 lines of resolution even though its a 1080i TV. So Im really wondering how much picture quality Im losing currently due to a lack of about 700 lines of resolution. I also found out it only does 1080i/480p/480i and NOT 720p. That also kind of annoys me. Other than that I feel the picture quality is great and I enjoyed watching my NFL Sundays the last 2 years on it and currently enjoy my Xbox 360 on it. But Im wondering what Im still potentially missing in my games,sports and HD DVD movies.


But now I see that I can get a 1080p 50" SXRD TV with a full 1920x1080 TV that does all the formats(1080p/i, 720p, 480p/i etc etc) for around half the price of what I paid for the Mitsubishi, and at less than half the weight, LOL! That weight issue is good for me now too, LOL!


So let me ask this. My WD55813, is this considered a decent older gen. HDTV? How will the SXRD or the Plasma's stack up to this traditional CRT RPTV?


Also, as for viewing angle thats not a big deal to me. I ALWAYS sit front and center, dead middle, LOL!
Wife and kids FLANK me.
I gotta have some perks for flipping the bills don't I?


As for viewing distance it will be under 6 feet in distance, this is a garentee, I think. Ill try and have the wife do a measurement from the front of the screen to the couch when she gets back for a definite.


So there you have it, I guess I should have also stated in this thread that this next TV needs to most definetly have a better PQ than the current HDTV.


BTW, will a 50" SXRD have a potentially sharper/better image than its 55" counterpart?


As for the Plasmas, Im still thinking about them too. I did see a Panasonic 42" Plasma ( TH-42PX6U ) at Walmart. It was probably poorly or not even adjusted either, but the picture was REAL NICE looking regardless. I would want the 600U version which I think only differs in that it has more connection options on the back. I do want at least 1 HDMI, 2 component and a VGA hookup at least.


The only thing that bugs me on these Plasmas is that they dont have as high of a resolution and I think are truely just 720p displays for about $2000-$2500 it seems. But I can get the SXRD delivered for about $1750. So bang for the buck is a concern since I already spent $3500 on a TV I did no real research on just a few years back. Also, stuff like screen burn in on Plasmas doesnt bother me, I take care of my electronics, so preventative maintenance is not an issue for me, I dont plan on keeping a video game pasued for 48 hours on the Plasma if I do buy it, LOL!


Also, the den room is poorly lit(not much outside light, mostly room lit by a pair of 60watt lamp bulbs.


So, maybe you now know a bit more about my situation, keep the posts rolling. Love to hear more from you! =)


PS: I honestly could care less about SD viewing. The few TV programs I do watch in SD are on the SciFi channel, NipTuck on FX and the news( yay! ). My other favorite show Boston Legal is also in HDTV on CBS thank god.


I also could care less about PIP, V chip, things of that nature or the quality of the TV speakers since I use external ones instead. All I care about is PQ and the more picture adjustment controls the better! =)
 

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I doubt you'll see much if any improvment. You're likely to get a bigger improvement by having someone in to ISF calibrate your current mits. You should probably start a new topic asking that question in the title & see what kind of response you get.


"I can get a 1080p 50" SXRD TV with full 1920x1080 tv"... LOL, that sounds like a Peyton Manning quote
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not /forum/post/0


I doubt you'll see much if any improvment. You're likely to get a bigger improvement by having someone in to ISF calibrate your current mits. You should probably start a new topic asking that question in the title & see what kind of response you get.


"I can get a 1080p 50" SXRD TV with full 1920x1080 tv"... LOL, that sounds like a Peyton Manning quote


Well even if its not a huge improvement, Im still getting a new TV, LOL. I can put the Mitz in the bedroom, I'm sure the wife won't object to replacing our 20 inch SD Sony, lol.
 

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Just to add to the whole 1080p vs 768p,


I had both, in LCD counter parts... Before I returned them. The only thing people that many people seems to not consider is the "in between" distance between a 1080p and 768p. With all the calculators and table, you have a distance that you must sit to see ALL the details for 768p and 1080p. Sure, you need to sit pretty close to catch all the details, but if you sit between the minimum distance from a 768p and 1080p, you will indeed benefit from higher resolution. Perhaps not to catch all details, but you will get more than a 768p.


Back from my experience, both LCD had the same contrast ratio, same dimension (46" at 8 feet distance), but one had 720p display, the other had 1080p. And I did see a difference, much much clearer if I was focusing on a point.


Hope that's help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xuivo /forum/post/0


Just to add to the whole 1080p vs 768p,


I had both, in LCD counter parts... Before I returned them. The only thing people that many people seems to not consider is the "in between" distance between a 1080p and 768p. With all the calculators and table, you have a distance that you must sit to see ALL the details for 768p and 1080p. Sure, you need to sit pretty close to catch all the details, but if you sit between the minimum distance from a 768p and 1080p, you will indeed benefit from higher resolution. Perhaps not to catch all details, but you will get more than a 768p.


Back from my experience, both LCD had the same contrast ratio, same dimension (46" at 8 feet distance), but one had 720p display, the other had 1080p. And I did see a difference, much much clearer if I was focusing on a point.


Hope that's help!

So in a nutshell you think the 5-6 foot seating position in front of a 50" tv would benefit from a true 1080p/i resolution then?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyBongHits /forum/post/0


The Sony KDS 50A2000 SXRD RPTV which does 720p, 1080i and 1080p and has a native screen resolution of 1920x1080.


Or


The Panasonic TH-50PX600U which I think only does 720p and 1080i, but only has a screen resolution of 1366x768, or basically 720p native.

Actually, the Panasonic will accept 1080p also (via HDMI).

Quote:
What I really don't like though is the lower native resolution of 1366x768. Which I think means these Plasma displays will look their best in 720p and not in 1080i and can't do 1080p.

The plasma will look good displaying 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. Which looks best will depend upon the source, the signal, the transmission medium and what processing might be occuring in an external device.


Also the display can't "do" 1080i any more than it can "do" 1080p. Both have a spatial resolution of 1920x1080 which the 1366x768 glass cannot fully resolve.

Quote:
I personally don't understand what the point is in being able to display a 1080i picture if its missing half the pixels needed to fully display the picture.

The point is that you would otherwise be unable to tune in stations that were broadcast in 1080i.
 

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Right now I'm facing the exact same decision as you...


60" Sony KDS-50A2000 or 50" Pioneer PDP-5070HD...


It's a toss-up for me right now.


LCOS pros:

-1080p! over HDMI!

-bigger screen

-resistant to reflections

-cheaper


LCOS cons:

-bigger/heavier

-silk screen sparkling effect

-VGA input extremely limited

-no PIP


PDP pros:

-small footprint

-PIP

-1080p 60/24 inputs

-overscan can be defeated


PDP cons:

-image retention (problematic for video games)

-uneven aging when using 4:3 stuff

-glare/reflections when ambient light is about

-lower resolution

-pricier


Note: I don't consider the 8000 hour bulb life of the LCOS set to be an issue. Watching less than 4 hours of content/day it'll last me...6 years, and replacement = $250.


*sigh* I'm still undecided.
 
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