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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 /forum/post/19621592


How do you know they heard differences? Sounds to me like you know some who claim to have heard differences, nothing more.

you are so sure of yourself that you can tell them what they heard was wrong, when you have no idea what it was they heard, in what venue and context and even the quality of the cords being swapped about. you have quite the insight there.



the people that are posting against me are quite oppressive to this forum, which is not very conducive to a healthy discussion on anything related to actual enjoyment of the hobby. like the other thread, i am going to have to stop posting because of people who push their ideals down peoples throats so hard. its very saddening actually. if you want some useful discussion on what kind of power cord would work in the price range you have, check out the "The Path of Least Resistance" circle on audiocircle.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19621703


you are so sure of yourself that you can tell them what they heard was wrong, when you have no idea what it was they heard, in what venue and context and even the quality of the cords being swapped about. you have quite the insight there.

I'm quite sure that no one has ever been able to demonstrate that they could hear a difference in blind testing. Anything to refute that? Even a half baked theory on why a power cable would change the sound? Anything?

Quote:
the people that are posting against me are quite oppressive to this forum, which is not very conducive to a healthy discussion on anything related to actual enjoyment of the hobby.

So you think it's healthy to continue to spread audio myths?

Quote:
like the other thread, i am going to have to stop posting because of people who push their ideals down peoples throats so hard.

Or you could just stop pushing your ideals, without anything to back it up, and expecting others to stay silent.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19620812



these people that are not into experimenting and trying new things-dont listen to them.

Right. Instead, listen to any electrical engineer, who can provide real, scientific proof that your power cord has absolutely NO impact on what is coming out of your speakers unless for some reason it is inadequate in its ability to pass sufficient current.


Next time you think you need to piss away ANY extra cash on a power cord, take your wall plate off and see what the electrons are traveling through to even get to that power cord. Then if that doesn't satisfy you, take your amp cover off and see the wire that they use to transport the current from the cord plug to the transformer.


Expecting your power cord to improve your sound quality is like replacing a short section of your garden hose and expecting your garden vegetables to taste better.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim85IROC /forum/post/19621860


Right. Instead, listen to any electrical engineer, who can provide real, scientific proof that your power cord has absolutely NO impact on what is coming out of your speakers unless for some reason it is inadequate in its ability to pass sufficient current.


Next time you think you need to piss away ANY extra cash on a power cord, take your wall plate off and see what the electrons are traveling through to even get to that power cord. Then if that doesn't satisfy you, take your amp cover off and see the wire that they use to transport the current from the cord plug to the transformer.


Expecting your power cord to improve your sound quality is like replacing a short section of your garden hose and expecting your garden vegetables to taste better.

While I agree, if your going to point out the EE's perspective you should note that electrons don't move down the wire under AC voltage, they sit in place and 'vibrate'. Current isn't a result of electron motion down the wire in AC circuits.
 

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"Expecting your power cord to improve your sound quality is like replacing a short section of your garden hose and expecting your garden vegetables to taste better."


Don't forget the effect on the nutritional content of vegetables if you use a brass nozzle vs a plastic one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19620942


maybe more than you do, geek!

what do you know about it?

johnzm, my reply was to show you your own hypocrisy. You recommend a power cord that you've never experimented with ("it has many good reviews"), then the next sentence you say, "these people that are not into experimenting and trying new things-dont listen to them".


You've been posting claims after claims about cables last couple of weeks on this section of the forum. How about posting some evidences to substantiate those claims for a change? Remember, opinion dose not mean evidence. Now, can you post some evidences for healthy discussion sake instead of running away?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/19622208


johnzm, my reply was to show you your own hypocrisy. You recommend a power cord that you've never experimented with ("it has many good reviews"), then the next sentence you say, "these people that are not into experimenting and trying new things-dont listen to them".


You've been posting claims after claims about cables last couple of weeks on this section of the forum. How about posting some evidences to substantiate those claims for a change? Remember, opinion dose not mean evidence. Now, can you post some evidences for healthy discussion sake instead of running away?

i did in fact post my perception. i have had QUITE a change in system sound in many different systems, some i dont even own, with cable changes. my personal experience in the matter is tossed away by some, who have experience in the other way, and some who have no experience at all.


i have had experiences where people within 30 seconds of me putting new cables in their own systems, without my telling them, have noted that something had changed. they were not even aware what it was until they went looking at the gear.


my own personal experiences are vastly different than yours, i am sure.


these cables i am hearing differences on, are not 2 relatively cheap cables (which probably have the same style constructions and materials in their builds) but are drastically different from the normal teflon or pvc covered copper wiring. these cables that i enjoy the most, are not the cheapest cable.


some of them are not that expensive tho, either (signal silver interconnects, for instance) and do change the sound of the system.

and as for the evidence, this is not opinion to me anymore, and it is no opinion to anyone who has heard a difference either. it is fact, that i heard a difference.i PERCIEVED one, however you want to take that (since the FACT is that sound is a very personal sense much like taste) but the fact remains, i am happier with the cables in my system than without. and the price of the cable has nothing to do with my happiness, since i have tried more expensive and moved back to cheaper cables.


now, that i have elaborated on my experiences where i did hear differences, can you give some experiences you have had where you did not?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19622287


i did in fact post my perception. i have had QUITE a change in system sound in many different systems, some i dont even own, with cable changes. my personal experience in the matter is tossed away by some, who have experience in the other way, and some who have no experience at all.


i have had experiences where people within 30 seconds of me putting new cables in their own systems, without my telling them, have noted that something had changed. they were not even aware what it was until they went looking at the gear.


my own personal experiences are vastly different than yours, i am sure.


these cables i am hearing differences on, are not 2 relatively cheap cables (which probably have the same style constructions and materials in their builds) but are drastically different from the normal teflon or pvc covered copper wiring. these cables that i enjoy the most, are not the cheapest cable.


some of them are not that expensive tho, either (signal silver interconnects, for instance) and do change the sound of the system.

and as for the evidence, this is not opinion to me anymore, and it is no opinion to anyone who has heard a difference either. it is fact, that i heard a difference.i PERCIEVED one, however you want to take that (since the FACT is that sound is a very personal sense much like taste) but the fact remains, i am happier with the cables in my system than without. and the price of the cable has nothing to do with my happiness, since i have tried more expensive and moved back to cheaper cables.


now, that i have elaborated on my experiences where i did hear differences,

Evidence needs to meet series of criteria to be confirmed which you didn't do. One of them is called repeatability. Has your comparison been done in a properly conducted DBT that adheres to the standard protocol discussed on this forum from time to time?
Quote:
can you give some experiences you have had where you did not?

Once you can present a case that resulted from a properly conducted comparison, I'll let you know about it. By the way, here's a brief description, I once perceived a difference between cables so I know and you know that it's a system with high enough resolution and my hearing is sufficient. Then did the DBT with same cables in the same system and the difference was gone. There's more but I'll wait for your presentation on DBT.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19621117


... i know some who have and have heard a difference. ....

Or, perhaps that is just their claim, unsupported by evidence, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19620942


...the simple factis that many hear differences

...

Simple fact? How so? Based on what evidence? Why is that evidence so elusive and nonexistent if it is a simple fact?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu
This is called the "Audio Video SCIENCE" forum.

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the natural world .

Look it up .
You lend too much weight to what is merely a name. This place was never meant to be, nor is it now, a bastion of science. Especially the 2 Channel Audio sub forum.


Lighten up, guys. Or we might have to rename it the Audio Video SKEPTICAL forum.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm
i did in fact post my perception. i have had QUITE a change in system sound in many different systems, some i dont even own, with cable changes. my personal experience in the matter is tossed away by some, who have experience in the other way, and some who have no experience at all.


i have had experiences where people within 30 seconds of me putting new cables in their own systems, without my telling them, have noted that something had changed. they were not even aware what it was until they went looking at the gear.


my own personal experiences are vastly different than yours, i am sure.


these cables i am hearing differences on, are not 2 relatively cheap cables (which probably have the same style constructions and materials in their builds) but are drastically different from the normal teflon or pvc covered copper wiring. these cables that i enjoy the most, are not the cheapest cable.


some of them are not that expensive tho, either (signal silver interconnects, for instance) and do change the sound of the system.

and as for the evidence, this is not opinion to me anymore, and it is no opinion to anyone who has heard a difference either. it is fact, that i heard a difference.i PERCIEVED one, however you want to take that (since the FACT is that sound is a very personal sense much like taste) but the fact remains, i am happier with the cables in my system than without. and the price of the cable has nothing to do with my happiness, since i have tried more expensive and moved back to cheaper cables.


now, that i have elaborated on my experiences where i did hear differences, can you give some experiences you have had where you did not?
I won't dispute that you heard a difference. The question is why?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/19622550


Evidence needs to meet series of criteria to be confirmed which you didn't do. One of them is called repeatability. Has your comparison been done in a properly conducted DBT that adheres to the standard protocol discussed on this forum from time to time?


Once you can present a case that resulted from a properly conducted comparison, I'll let you know about it. By the way, here's a brief description, I once perceived a difference between cables so I know and you know that it's a system with high enough resolution and my hearing is sufficient. Then did the DBT with same cables in the same system and the difference was gone. There's more but I'll wait for your presentation on DBT.

Ah yes, the mysterious geek. All questions and no answers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by krs /forum/post/19627116


I'm voting for the cheap Scotch per post #2. Much better use of the money.

You can have the cheap scotch, I know I'll feel a lot better with new cables.
 
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