AVS Forum banner

41 - 60 of 145 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,623 Posts
As someone who has purchased and used more cable over 40+ years for more hi end pro and broadcast facilities than most of these guys have even seen, my experience and that of many others here (and the laws of physics prove) that if a cable is chosen for the required signal type, current, crosstalk isolation and EMI shielding, ANY audio system will perform to the peak designs of the active components. The wires are totally passive and offer no measurable alteration in the audio spectrum.


This is evidently "rocket surgery" for some here. You, as an individual trying to do a DBT, CANNOT by definition have ANY involvement in the selection, set-up or switching process otherwise, again by definition, it is NOT a DBT.


Not one person here trumpeting the magical acoustic enhancements supposedly provided by these cables can provide any scientific and repeatable PROOF in the form of measurable data- only ancedotal claims.


Second, for a passive component to deliver any enhancements that a standard cable theoretically cannot, the perfect signal must therefore be present at the amps' output terminals and since it is electrical in nature, it is measurable and viewable on a scope. Again, not one person will present repeatable and scientifically gleaned and recorded data.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,171 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist /forum/post/19631804


As someone who has purchased and used more cable over 40+ years for more hi end pro and broadcast facilities than most of these guys have even seen, my experience and that of many others here (and the laws of physics prove) that if a cable is chosen for the required signal type, current, crosstalk isolation and EMI shielding, ANY audio system will perform to the peak designs of the active components. The wires are totally passive and offer no measurable alteration in the audio spectrum.


This is evidently "rocket surgery" for some here. You, as an individual trying to do a DBT, CANNOT by definition have ANY involvement in the selection, set-up or switching process otherwise, again by definition, it is NOT a DBT.


Not one person here trumpeting the magical acoustic enhancements supposedly provided by these cables can provide any scientific and repeatable PROOF in the form of measurable data- only ancedotal claims.


Second, for a passive component to deliver any enhancements that a standard cable theoretically cannot, the perfect signal must therefore be present at the amps' output terminals and since it is electrical in nature, it is measurable and viewable on a scope. Again, not one person will present repeatable and scientifically gleaned and recorded data.

That is all fine and dandy but it only matters to the person who hears a difference on their OWN system, not someone else's. And I believe any individual who becomes accustomed to the sound of their system after many lengthy listening sessions are more than capable to detect differences whether it is the swapping out of components/cables or whatever to reach those conclusions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,623 Posts
The human ear and brain are notoriously incapable of a repeated accurate analysis of anything acoustic. There are so many variables, biologically speaking, as to make a passive listening test useless for any thing more than an anecdotal claim which is patently simple to prove wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
If I was to buy a $1000 power cable and was absolutely convinced that I was going to hear some sort of difference between my new and old cable, I probably would hear a difference.


I have come home after a long day of work or studying, popped in a CD and gone into a zone of complete bliss. Other days I turn the volume down as the music sounds too harsh for my ears.

I can't be 100% certain, but I don't think somebody has been entering my house and switching the internals of my components while I'm not home.


It's one thing to say you hear a difference, and another to actually prove why there is a difference, and where it came from. I could come to the conclusion that the change in room temperature from day to day made my system sound different, the same way that people could say the power cable made their system sound better.


It's not that these people don't have the time, patience, or are too close-minded to test $1000 power cables, it's that science, usually comes out as more credible than an individuals subjective results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,341 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzm /forum/post/19621703


you are so sure of yourself that you can tell them what they heard was wrong, when you have no idea what it was they heard, in what venue and context and even the quality of the cords being swapped about. you have quite the insight there.



the people that are posting against me are quite oppressive to this forum, which is not very conducive to a healthy discussion on anything related to actual enjoyment of the hobby. like the other thread, i am going to have to stop posting because of people who push their ideals down peoples throats so hard. its very saddening actually. if you want some useful discussion on what kind of power cord would work in the price range you have, check out the "The Path of Least Resistance" circle on audiocircle.

No ones oppressing anything or anyone. Just simply be willing to wear a blind fold and pick your power cable out of say a 10 run test of yours vs b in a statistically meaningful manner.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist
The human ear and brain are notoriously incapable of a repeated accurate analysis of anything acoustic. There are so many variables, biologically speaking, as to make a passive listening test useless for any thing more than an anecdotal claim which is patently simple to prove wrong.
Not in their own environment. A trained ear can detect differences, that is a fact.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,171 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by volsey /forum/post/19633509


If I was to buy a $1000 power cable and was absolutely convinced that I was going to hear some sort of difference between my new and old cable, I probably would hear a difference.


I have come home after a long day of work or studying, popped in a CD and gone into a zone of complete bliss. Other days I turn the volume down as the music sounds too harsh for my ears.

I can't be 100% certain, but I don't think somebody has been entering my house and switching the internals of my components while I'm not home.


It's one thing to say you hear a difference, and another to actually prove why there is a difference, and where it came from. I could come to the conclusion that the change in room temperature from day to day made my system sound different, the same way that people could say the power cable made their system sound better.


It's not that these people don't have the time, patience, or are too close-minded to test $1000 power cables, it's that science, usually comes out as more credible than an individuals subjective results.

Newsflash. If the source you put on sucks, so won't the sound even if you have changed nothing.


How many people spend that much on a power cable? My guess, not many.


IC's and speaker cables are a different story with more noticeable differences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,156 Posts

Quote:
Not in their own environment. A trained ear can detect differences, that is a fact.

No, it's not. You just made it up.


Seriously, there's actually a branch of science that studies human hearing. The people who are arguing with you have at least a passing acquaintance with that science. And there isn't a shred of scientific evidence that being in "one's own environment" heightens one's hearing perception.


I suggest you take your paws off the keyboard for a while and try to learn something here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,401 Posts
Almost all CD players sound the same. Almost all DACs sound the same. Almost all amplifiers sound the same. Almost all cables sound the same. There are no real meaningful differences so save your money and get the cheapest you can find.


Turn your living room into a padded crazy room and buy the most expensive speakers you can. Tether the speakers to the cheap aforementioned gear, and don't worry about how revealing the speakers are of your upstream components. There is no meaningful differences no matter what you think you hear.


Everything about audio that can be known... is known, and can be backed up with measurements and blind testing.


Nothing to see here, move along.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,156 Posts

Quote:
Almost all CD players sound the same. Almost all DACs sound the same. Almost all amplifiers sound the same. Almost all cables sound the same. There are no real meaningful differences so save your money and get the cheapest you can find.


Turn your living room into a padded crazy room and buy the most expensive speakers you can. Tether the speakers to the cheap aforementioned gear, and don't worry about how revealing the speakers are of your upstream components. There is no meaningful differences no matter what you think you hear.


Everything about audio that can be known... is known, and can be backed up with measurements and blind testing.


Nothing to see here, move along.

Not exactly, but you're getting warmer.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,171 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus /forum/post/19634766


No, it's not. You just made it up.


Seriously, there's actually a branch of science that studies human hearing. The people who are arguing with you have at least a passing acquaintance with that science. And there isn't a shred of scientific evidence that being in "one's own environment" heightens one's hearing perception.


I suggest you take your paws off the keyboard for a while and try to learn something here.

I have learned plenty in my +45years in this hobby, thanks.


Your the one that needs to get your head out of the sand. Maybe that is why when you do take it out, your unable to hear any differences.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,171 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 /forum/post/19634950


Almost all CD players sound the same. Almost all DACs sound the same. Almost all amplifiers sound the same. Almost all cables sound the same. There are no real meaningful differences so save your money and get the cheapest you can find.


Turn your living room into a padded crazy room and buy the most expensive speakers you can. Tether the speakers to the cheap aforementioned gear, and don't worry about how revealing the speakers are of your upstream components. There is no meaningful differences no matter what you think you hear.


Everything about audio that can be known... is known, and can be backed up with measurements and blind testing.


Nothing to see here, move along.

Good one! Though I think they could get by with just the padded crazy room!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodef /forum/post/19634657


Newsflash. If the source you put on sucks, so won't the sound even if you have changed nothing.

Thanks for the amazing insight? I usually throw out a CD after I listen to it because who ever listens to the same song more than once right?...

Really didn't think I'd need to mention the same source content has sounded different on the same set-up on different days. I was really just trying (and apparently failed) to tie in with what Gizmologist was saying, the biological human body is a bigger variable than most people would regularly consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,908 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodef /forum/post/19631057


Maybe hearing tests? That would be my guess!

This guy is a troll.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,414 Posts
Save some money, if you are handy with tools...

Go to a commercial electrical wholesale company and buy some really good quality rubber-covered power cord, and some high-quality plugs and receptacles.

I'm partial to the Hubbell "Valise" series (yellow, clam-shell design). Do a good job of stripping the wires and screwing-down the brass screws in the plugs and connectors, without nicking the wire strands or splaying the strands all over the place. Tinning (solder) just the very tip of the wire strands, leaving the rest of the connection to "crush down" under the screw terminals, will help prevent loose strands.


If you are capable of it (depending on skill and local electrical codes), replace the wall outlet, and even the circuit breaker, with a high-quality equivalent...from the same wholesaler...and make the connections clean and tight.

Getting away from the cheaper wiring devices between the breaker panel and the equipment is a good start for better sound.

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/htm/In...aightBlade.htm


There are also many tutorials on the net, showing good wiring practices, such as how to route the cables, how to ground things, and how to troubleshoot noise and interference.


That's how the studios do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,414 Posts
Save some money, if you are handy with tools...

Go to a commercial electrical wholesale company and buy some really good quality rubber-covered power cord, and some high-quality plugs and receptacles.

I'm partial to the Hubbell "Valise" series (yellow, clam-shell design). Do a good job of stripping the wires and screwing-down the brass screws in the plugs and connectors, without nicking the wire strands or splaying the strands all over the place. Tinning (solder) just the very tip of the wire strands, leaving the rest of the connection to "crush down" under the screw terminals, will help prevent loose strands.


If you are capable of it (depending on skill and local electrical codes), replace the wall outlet, and even the circuit breaker, with a high-quality equivalent...from the same wholesaler...and make the connections clean and tight.

Getting away from the cheaper wiring devices between the breaker panel and the equipment is a good start for better sound.

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/htm/In...aightBlade.htm


There are also many tutorials on the net, showing good wiring practices, such as how to route the cables, how to ground things, and how to troubleshoot noise and interference.


That's how the studios do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,623 Posts
"Save some money, if you are handy with tools...

Go to a commercial electrical wholesale company and buy some really good quality rubber-covered power cord, and some high-quality plugs and receptacles.

I'm partial to the Hubbell "Valise" series (yellow, clam-shell design). Do a good job of stripping the wires and screwing-down the brass screws in the plugs and connectors, without nicking the wire strands or splaying the strands all over the place. Tinning (solder) just the very tip of the wire strands, leaving the rest of the connection to "crush down" under the screw terminals, will help prevent loose strands.


If you are capable of it (depending on skill and local electrical codes), replace the wall outlet, and even the circuit breaker, with a high-quality equivalent...from the same wholesaler...and make the connections clean and tight."


Up to this point^. you were right on the money.


Then you lost track of reality with this:


"Getting away from the cheaper wiring devices between the breaker panel and the equipment is a good start for better sound."


THERE IS NO EFFECT on the ability of any device to reproduce the audio spectrum from recorded media by a power cable, speaker cable or interconnect if the cables meet the design criteria of the system, i.e. current flow and resistance in the realm of power and speaker cables.


If the interconnects are well shielded and are designed to minimize channel cross talk and EMI, all is well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
A friend of mine (braggart that he is) kep't downing my rig because I purchased it from a guy at work used. He is running Mac amp and pre and an esoteric cd player. Hooked up his system to my old Polk speakers to run a few comparisons. I used my old Proton 100 watt per channel amp and Proton pre with a Sony 300 disc mega changer. Connecting my set, Blue Jeans cable and stock power cords. His boutique gear, spent a couple of grand on it. Using the same Polk speakers I connected first his gear and then my old stock stuff. No removable plugs on these old boys. In a blind test he could not pick out his high-end equipment 9 out of 10 times over an entire weekend. When I purchased this so called low-end equipment, I had to have the RCA plug-ins replaced because they were damaged. Can you guess what interconnects came with it? Not to disparge anyone what would you call Godzilla? a Mon____. These things were so tight that over time it destroyed the RCA's. He still believes he has a better set-up because his is new and expensive. Hmmm. Sorry, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,139 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnridgerunner
... Sorry, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck???
Roars like a lion?
 
41 - 60 of 145 Posts
Top