For owners of these panels (and maybe the other sizes as well) - how many hours do you have on the panel and do you see the fierce image retention? Can *any* owners report that this goes away or becomes very subdued after XX hours of viewing?
I've had the XR4 now for about 3 weeks in which time I've used it pretty heavily (more than usual) in order to get through the break-in period and get the panel to the point where it makes sense to calibrate it. I haven't yet posted a review of this panel (its been phenomenal in most ways) and I still intend to but the image retention issue seems to be holding it back and I would like to know, from other owners, what they are experiencing. I was led to believe from reports here that this does indeed go away but I know have almost 70hrs on the panel and the image retention is still startling. Much moreso than I had let myself believe from the reviews here.
One example - I watched a 2.35:1 movie the other day without zooming it for the first time. After the movie had played for an hour or so I started to check out some particulars with regard to PQ and it was apparent that the black bars on the top/bottom were VERY dark (nearly CRT level) in a room where there was almost no light. We are talking a very deep black level. REALLY good! But read on...
The movie ended and the credits rolled and the retention was shockingly apparent. The area of the screen where the movie had played was simply a different color than the black bars on the top and bottom. So much different (and I should take a picture of this and post it) that I thought that maybe the movie was playing a dark grey screen as the credits rolled. However, this idea was quickly dismissed as I scrolled through the zoom modes and the super defined black/dark-grey border didn't move. This obviously meant that the perfectly framed 2.35:1 dark grey area was purely the result of image retention - not of a single image but as a result of the fact that there was significant activity on that area of the screen.
Also of note, as I scrolled through the zoom modes and back to "Anamorphic", the word "Anamorphic" straddled the border and stayed up for 5 seconds or so before timing out and disappearing. After it disappeared, the lower half of the word "Anamorphic" was clearly retained on the black section of the screen that hadn't received any color other than black for the past two hours. This was easily visible (and readable)from 10ft away. The upper half of the word in the dark grey zone was not visible. Its almost like that very dark inactive area because hypersensitive to image retention. Blech. It took more than 10 minutes of content filling the entire screen before the bars went away (the letters went away in maybe 2 minutes but they had only been on the screen for 5 seconds!).
Anyways, this is but one example but the same issue is always present. If I leave up the Comcast OD menu for even a minute then the large "Comcast" lettering is present for the next little while. If I watch something in 4:3 even for a minute, the black bars become quite a visible contrast to the active screen area. Etc...
What is even more interesting to me is that this retention doesn't go away just because you turn the panel off! If I were to watch a 2.35:1 movie and turn off the set immediately afterward the retention would still be there when I turned it back on...even if that is a day later! Is this normal? It isn't burn-in because it will "wash away" when other content is played but still...
How does this effect the picture quality for me? I'm wavering on whether or not this is acceptable as it is if it doesn't improve. Obviously high contrast static images will have negative repercussions on PQ for the few minutes following their display. This probably isn't an issue for most critical viewing material (where things are generally moving) but is an issue if moving between content with different aspect modes or starting something from a static menu.
I don't think its debatable that this retention *hurts* the black level. Maybe the really deep black top/bottom bars I see when playing a 2.35:1 movie aren't realistic as the base black for the active screen but its just one of those things where the contrast reminds me of what I don't have. It would also seem to set up a variable best black level that depends on the brightness of the image that preceeded the black/dark image. What is weird is that this seems really messed up but the reality is that this panel seems to do an awesome job with shadow/gray detail. It isn't lacking for subtelty at all in dark areas but I have no idea how they can do this when the blackest black they can get varies on the preceeding imagery. Its just weird.
I'm not really concerned that this is doing any lasting damage or resulting in any sort of burn-in. But I do admit this has discouraged me from playing xbox (so far) and is slightly concerning for when I eventually set up an HTPC.
So, what is everyone else seeing? Is it acceptable? Is it getting better? Does it ever disappear? How does this compare to other panels? I would like to see what non-owners think of this (rogo?). I'll probably do a few more experiments and I might take some pictures and post them.
All thoughts and opinions are welcom and sorry for rambling on
.
overtime
I've had the XR4 now for about 3 weeks in which time I've used it pretty heavily (more than usual) in order to get through the break-in period and get the panel to the point where it makes sense to calibrate it. I haven't yet posted a review of this panel (its been phenomenal in most ways) and I still intend to but the image retention issue seems to be holding it back and I would like to know, from other owners, what they are experiencing. I was led to believe from reports here that this does indeed go away but I know have almost 70hrs on the panel and the image retention is still startling. Much moreso than I had let myself believe from the reviews here.
One example - I watched a 2.35:1 movie the other day without zooming it for the first time. After the movie had played for an hour or so I started to check out some particulars with regard to PQ and it was apparent that the black bars on the top/bottom were VERY dark (nearly CRT level) in a room where there was almost no light. We are talking a very deep black level. REALLY good! But read on...
The movie ended and the credits rolled and the retention was shockingly apparent. The area of the screen where the movie had played was simply a different color than the black bars on the top and bottom. So much different (and I should take a picture of this and post it) that I thought that maybe the movie was playing a dark grey screen as the credits rolled. However, this idea was quickly dismissed as I scrolled through the zoom modes and the super defined black/dark-grey border didn't move. This obviously meant that the perfectly framed 2.35:1 dark grey area was purely the result of image retention - not of a single image but as a result of the fact that there was significant activity on that area of the screen.
Also of note, as I scrolled through the zoom modes and back to "Anamorphic", the word "Anamorphic" straddled the border and stayed up for 5 seconds or so before timing out and disappearing. After it disappeared, the lower half of the word "Anamorphic" was clearly retained on the black section of the screen that hadn't received any color other than black for the past two hours. This was easily visible (and readable)from 10ft away. The upper half of the word in the dark grey zone was not visible. Its almost like that very dark inactive area because hypersensitive to image retention. Blech. It took more than 10 minutes of content filling the entire screen before the bars went away (the letters went away in maybe 2 minutes but they had only been on the screen for 5 seconds!).
Anyways, this is but one example but the same issue is always present. If I leave up the Comcast OD menu for even a minute then the large "Comcast" lettering is present for the next little while. If I watch something in 4:3 even for a minute, the black bars become quite a visible contrast to the active screen area. Etc...
What is even more interesting to me is that this retention doesn't go away just because you turn the panel off! If I were to watch a 2.35:1 movie and turn off the set immediately afterward the retention would still be there when I turned it back on...even if that is a day later! Is this normal? It isn't burn-in because it will "wash away" when other content is played but still...
How does this effect the picture quality for me? I'm wavering on whether or not this is acceptable as it is if it doesn't improve. Obviously high contrast static images will have negative repercussions on PQ for the few minutes following their display. This probably isn't an issue for most critical viewing material (where things are generally moving) but is an issue if moving between content with different aspect modes or starting something from a static menu.
I don't think its debatable that this retention *hurts* the black level. Maybe the really deep black top/bottom bars I see when playing a 2.35:1 movie aren't realistic as the base black for the active screen but its just one of those things where the contrast reminds me of what I don't have. It would also seem to set up a variable best black level that depends on the brightness of the image that preceeded the black/dark image. What is weird is that this seems really messed up but the reality is that this panel seems to do an awesome job with shadow/gray detail. It isn't lacking for subtelty at all in dark areas but I have no idea how they can do this when the blackest black they can get varies on the preceeding imagery. Its just weird.
I'm not really concerned that this is doing any lasting damage or resulting in any sort of burn-in. But I do admit this has discouraged me from playing xbox (so far) and is slightly concerning for when I eventually set up an HTPC.
So, what is everyone else seeing? Is it acceptable? Is it getting better? Does it ever disappear? How does this compare to other panels? I would like to see what non-owners think of this (rogo?). I'll probably do a few more experiments and I might take some pictures and post them.
All thoughts and opinions are welcom and sorry for rambling on
.overtime
